Biggs datacron

"Ultra;c-2462834" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462825" wrote:
The Commander Cody infinite loop was left alone ~4 datacron sets ago. Why was that one left unchanged during its entire run, but the Biggs one is too problematic and needs stripped from players mid set? It is literally the exact same affix (and this can be seen because this change retroactively changed the cody cron description on the .gg website).

i agree that infinite loops should be fixed whenever but now that you mention it, i do remember CG saying when datacrons were first introduced the benefits of DC were there that if there were some infinite loops combos, the good thing about DCs were they would eventually expire instead of them fixing them

and that CC is a good example

Yeah, this is what confuses me a bit. Why are they 'fixing' undesired interactions in datacrons when the whole point of them was to be a temporary boost? I was pretty close to adding more relics to Biggs just for this - I have the datacron but my Biggs is R3. I imagine a fair number of people bumped him to R5 specifically for this (I know for sure at least one of my guild mates did).

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to me what they do with it - it's just not that serious to me - but I can't help but feel like this pulls the rug out from under at least SOME players. Who knows how many resources people expended for this specific interaction?

I don't often cry "make good!" but this does strike me as one of those cases where it's warranted - in particular because (anecdotally) more and more people are giving in and buying into datacrons - anything that discourages that trend would seem ill-advised. I'm honestly not sure what harm could come of reimbursing people for their investment after changing the rules on them. The net result is that those players have what? one more datacron? How would that not be a good thing both for the players and for the game as a whole?

"StarSon;c-2462853" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462825" wrote:
The Commander Cody infinite loop was left alone ~4 datacron sets ago. Why was that one left unchanged during its entire run, but the Biggs one is too problematic and needs stripped from players mid set? It is literally the exact same affix (and this can be seen because this change retroactively changed the cody cron description on the .gg website).

I feel like you just answered the question. They fixed it to prevent future loops.

As I've mentioned, it's about the precedent they had already set. If the exact same infinite loop had been untouched for an entire set already, players should be able to safely assume that it won't be touched mid set this round.

Players knew this would loop under MM the day they announced the datacron set. CG should have immediately (within a day or two) made it very clear that they would be making changes to it to prevent that and then made the changes ASAP. This is not something that gets silently dropped on players 2 months after the set is released and after people have spent money/crystals and various datacron materials to acquire a biggs cron and upgrade biggs to R5 to use the cron.

"Gawejn;c-2462851" wrote:
I have biggs cron but he is still r3. Good i didnt care...

Hooray

"StarSon;c-2462856" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462855" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2462853" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462825" wrote:
The Commander Cody infinite loop was left alone ~4 datacron sets ago. Why was that one left unchanged during its entire run, but the Biggs one is too problematic and needs stripped from players mid set? It is literally the exact same affix (and this can be seen because this change retroactively changed the cody cron description on the .gg website).

I feel like you just answered the question. They fixed it to prevent future loops.

As I've mentioned, it's about the precedent they had already set. If the exact same infinite loop had been untouched for an entire set already, players should be able to safely assume that it won't be touched mid set this round.

Players knew this would loop under MM the day they announced the datacron set. CG should have immediately (within a day or two) made it very clear that they would be making changes to it to prevent that and then made the changes ASAP. This is not something that gets silently dropped on players 2 months after the set is released and after people have spent money/crystals and various datacron materials to acquire a biggs cron and upgrade biggs to R5 to use the cron.

Or maybe they didn't want to push a fix until they had it properly tested, since it was going to affect multiple datacrons?

Only one currently available datacron makes use of that modifier and that is the Biggs level 9. They could have easily waited 2 months to include the change for the next datacron set.

They did say dcs wouldnt be nerfed or touched, because of its temporary appereance.

I do get this is a very hard refunding issue: some people just bumped Biggs from r3 to r5. Others geared up MM. Some people spent on Biggs mods, and not to mention crystals to re-roll dcs perks. I suppose some guys got it at first try, and others spent lots of resources.

Probably, a fixed make good compensation should he the easiest, if theres any of course. Some guya will be compensated, others just parcially, probably a small group will even benefit. But if you ask me, anything is better than what the current situation presents.

Also, a clear and predictable response on these kind of "fixes" in the future from CG, would be much appreciated.

"StarSon;c-2462860" wrote:
But if the goal is to fix it for all future datacrons that use this, why wait? Because you wanted them to for your benefit isn't really a good reason.

Please, let me redirect you to one of my previous posts (that was directed at you) that explained this already.

"iMalevolence;c-2462855" wrote:
As I've mentioned, it's about the precedent they had already set. If the exact same infinite loop had been untouched for an entire set already, players should be able to safely assume that it won't be touched mid set this round.

Players knew this would loop under MM the day they announced the datacron set. CG should have immediately (within a day or two) made it very clear that they would be making changes to it to prevent that and then made the changes ASAP. This is not something that gets silently dropped on players 2 months after the set is released and after people have spent money/crystals and various datacron materials to acquire a biggs cron and upgrade biggs to R5 to use the cron.

"StarSon;c-2462860" wrote:
why wait?

Lots of people have articulated why CG should have waited. I'm inclined to agree with their reasoning.

"iMalevolence;c-2462855" wrote:
it's about the precedent they had already set. If the exact same infinite loop had been untouched for an entire set already, players should be able to safely assume that it won't be touched mid set this round.

"wharp;c-2462854" wrote:
their actions are not always consistent and since they own everything you just have to accept them or leave.

"herd_nerfer;c-2462850" wrote:
Why are they 'fixing' undesired interactions in datacrons when the whole point of them was to be a temporary boost? I was pretty close to adding more relics to Biggs just for this - I have the datacron but my Biggs is R3. I imagine a fair number of people bumped him to R5 specifically for this (I know for sure at least one of my guild mates did).

I can't help but feel like this pulls the rug out from under at least SOME players. Who knows how many resources people expended for this specific interaction?

"LouisGlan;c-2462847" wrote:
I specifically spent money to invest extra resources into this datacron set last conquest because it looked so good. Now with barely any use out of it the entire value of it has been taken away.

"DG21;c-2462843" wrote:
This DC set has been available for a while now, almost at its midlife. I specifically upgraded a couple weeks ago Biggs from R3 to R5 and gave a zeta to MM lead (and not to mention, spent mats for the reroll) to use it in TW and GAC. There has been no communication about a possible change. This is a bad outlook for a resource management game, to live with the feeling that everything you invest that seems worth it might be changed and nerfed down the road. You could have just let it expire and change it in the future if you ever wanted it to come back.

For my part, this nerf isn't very impactful. But once again, the principle of the matter is what I care about. To everyone who is outraged by this, I hope you felt the same sense of outrage about the countless prior nerfs/re-balances that have occurred with zero compensation. And I hope you remember how CG handles things when you consider cracking open that wallet and supporting them financially.

"StarSon;c-2462860" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462858" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2462856" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462855" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2462853" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462825" wrote:
The Commander Cody infinite loop was left alone ~4 datacron sets ago. Why was that one left unchanged during its entire run, but the Biggs one is too problematic and needs stripped from players mid set? It is literally the exact same affix (and this can be seen because this change retroactively changed the cody cron description on the .gg website).

I feel like you just answered the question. They fixed it to prevent future loops.

As I've mentioned, it's about the precedent they had already set. If the exact same infinite loop had been untouched for an entire set already, players should be able to safely assume that it won't be touched mid set this round.

Players knew this would loop under MM the day they announced the datacron set. CG should have immediately (within a day or two) made it very clear that they would be making changes to it to prevent that and then made the changes ASAP. This is not something that gets silently dropped on players 2 months after the set is released and after people have spent money/crystals and various datacron materials to acquire a biggs cron and upgrade biggs to R5 to use the cron.

Or maybe they didn't want to push a fix until they had it properly tested, since it was going to affect multiple datacrons?

Only one currently available datacron makes use of that modifier and that is the Biggs level 9. They could have easily waited 2 months to include the change for the next datacron set.

But if the goal is to fix it for all future datacrons that use this, why wait? Because you wanted them to for your benefit isn't really a good reason.

Why not wait though? They could as easily wait to apply the fix until the DC set expires - in fact that's arguably easier since it wouldn't be impacting something that's currently live in the game that players have already invested in.

I respect your opinions StarSon - so I'm wondering what you're seeing here that I'm not. It seems to me that it's a net neutral impact on the game to let the datacron run its course - but 'fixing' it just invalidates player investment while delivering what benefit?

"StarSon;c-2462875" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2462867" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2462860" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462858" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2462856" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462855" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2462853" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2462825" wrote:
The Commander Cody infinite loop was left alone ~4 datacron sets ago. Why was that one left unchanged during its entire run, but the Biggs one is too problematic and needs stripped from players mid set? It is literally the exact same affix (and this can be seen because this change retroactively changed the cody cron description on the .gg website).

I feel like you just answered the question. They fixed it to prevent future loops.

As I've mentioned, it's about the precedent they had already set. If the exact same infinite loop had been untouched for an entire set already, players should be able to safely assume that it won't be touched mid set this round.

Players knew this would loop under MM the day they announced the datacron set. CG should have immediately (within a day or two) made it very clear that they would be making changes to it to prevent that and then made the changes ASAP. This is not something that gets silently dropped on players 2 months after the set is released and after people have spent money/crystals and various datacron materials to acquire a biggs cron and upgrade biggs to R5 to use the cron.

Or maybe they didn't want to push a fix until they had it properly tested, since it was going to affect multiple datacrons?

Only one currently available datacron makes use of that modifier and that is the Biggs level 9. They could have easily waited 2 months to include the change for the next datacron set.

But if the goal is to fix it for all future datacrons that use this, why wait? Because you wanted them to for your benefit isn't really a good reason.

Why not wait though? They could as easily wait to apply the fix until the DC set expires - in fact that's arguably easier since it wouldn't be impacting something that's currently live in the game that players have already invested in.

I respect your opinions StarSon - so I'm wondering what you're seeing here that I'm not. It seems to me that it's a net neutral impact on the game to let the datacron run its course - but 'fixing' it just invalidates player investment while delivering what benefit?

I understand how people could be upset by this, but it just doesn't seem like an odd occurrence to me. No one has yet produced a post from CG telling us they'll never fix a tm loop DC because it'll go away. Just because they were unable to fix (or didn't have time) it the first two times doesn't mean they hadn't always planned on fixing it. Entirely possible they put a ticket in for it the very first time and just got to it when they got to it, which happens to be now.

Also, while we're talking precedent, CG has never really cared about invalidating player investment so not sure why people expect them to start caring now.

I don't have the Datacron but I absolutely can understand the sentiment of players that have invested in it.

CG stated themselves that they will not be fixing Datacrons because they have a shelflife. This statement alone should be enough "proof" for you On top of that, even when Datacrons had "unexpected" effects in the past, even one that was exactly the same as this one, they didn't fix it. Even more reason.

This set is out for 2 months, CG did not make a statement in which they let the players know, contrary to their own statement of not fixing Datacrons, that they will be fixing it.

For quite a while now CG "fixes" or "changes" things just because they didn't test new stuff (enough) and it seems to become a habit of them not to compensate players for it. I remember my guildies whom play for a very long time telling me how CG would always give out make goods even for trivial things. And now? It seems quite sad how a company changes the way they see and treat their customers... and I think if customers are unhappy they have a right to let their voice be heard and the company know how they feel.

It is totally ok if you do not feel that way, then you are not one of the players this concerns. But why then giving the players this concerns the feeling that they are unreasonable or "question" their concerns? This I really don't understand. Let them get their voice heard without questioning it. Where is the problem?

Can someone please link to the post where they said they will never fix datacrons that aren't working as intended?