easiest fix for tenacity up problem

"Allenb60;c-1101777" wrote:
I just realized Ashoka Tano Fulcrum would probably be made immune to tenacity down or any negative effect if it can be re-applied like zeta Vader's DoTs

"Nebulous;c-1101731" wrote:
Not sure if dengar at blazing fast 109 speed and the caveat of requiring a crit (on each enemy) is really the "fix" the op is hoping comes to the game.

If you really wanted faster characters can inflict tenacity down. Vader worked out pretty well with the whole re-apply thing, who is pretty slow but also fairly bulky, like Dengar

Dengar has to crit to apply tenacity down. Gk likes to toss out 'can't be crit' buffs and Stealth sith can't be crit. Vader just needs to hit the opponent. This is much easier and Vader's tm can be sped up unlike our dengar pal. I don't think the two compare.

Also, we talking tenacity up, Rex and chirriut can cleanse and apply ten up in one swift package. No one can dispell and apply ten down.

"Nebulous;c-1101801" wrote:

"Allenb60;c-1101777" wrote:
I just realized Ashoka Tano Fulcrum would probably be made immune to tenacity down or any negative effect if it can be re-applied like zeta Vader's DoTs

"Nebulous;c-1101731" wrote:
Not sure if dengar at blazing fast 109 speed and the caveat of requiring a crit (on each enemy) is really the "fix" the op is hoping comes to the game.

If you really wanted faster characters can inflict tenacity down. Vader worked out pretty well with the whole re-apply thing, who is pretty slow but also fairly bulky, like Dengar

Dengar has to crit to apply tenacity down. Gk likes to toss out 'can't be crit' buffs and Stealth sith can't be crit. Vader just needs to hit the opponent. This is much easier and Vader's tm can be sped up unlike our dengar pal. I don't think the two compare.

Also, we talking tenacity up, Rex and chirriut can cleanse and apply ten up in one swift package. No one can dispell and apply ten down.

If they gave Dengar some sort of zeta that made him able to get advantage that would make tenacity down land 100%

That is all he really needs.

Tenacity up is a necessary counter to the crippling debuffs that exist in the game. If they do anything to "fix" tenacity up, then they should go through a whole game wide balance update so that teams that aren't reliant on debuffs are still relevant. Otherwise, they're just giving themselves something else to"fix" down the road..

"ItsJarJarBinkz;c-1101749" wrote:
tancicty up doesn't make debuffs irresistible if they have tenacity up.

Yes it does.

"Gamorrean;c-1101803" wrote:

"Nebulous;c-1101801" wrote:

"Allenb60;c-1101777" wrote:
I just realized Ashoka Tano Fulcrum would probably be made immune to tenacity down or any negative effect if it can be re-applied like zeta Vader's DoTs

"Nebulous;c-1101731" wrote:
Not sure if dengar at blazing fast 109 speed and the caveat of requiring a crit (on each enemy) is really the "fix" the op is hoping comes to the game.

If you really wanted faster characters can inflict tenacity down. Vader worked out pretty well with the whole re-apply thing, who is pretty slow but also fairly bulky, like Dengar

Dengar has to crit to apply tenacity down. Gk likes to toss out 'can't be crit' buffs and Stealth sith can't be crit. Vader just needs to hit the opponent. This is much easier and Vader's tm can be sped up unlike our dengar pal. I don't think the two compare.

Also, we talking tenacity up, Rex and chirriut can cleanse and apply ten up in one swift package. No one can dispell and apply ten down.

If they gave Dengar some sort of zeta that made him able to get advantage that would make tenacity down land 100%

That is all he really needs.

I pretty sure the can't crit wins vs the always crits.

"REM;c-1101831" wrote:

"ItsJarJarBinkz;c-1101749" wrote:
tancicty up doesn't make debuffs irresistible if they have tenacity up.

Yes it does.

Well, both of you are both correct and incorrect. Tenacity down will still apply even with tenacity up and debuffs that can't be resisted (tarkin vs rebels) will still land. All others will be resisted.

"Zombie961;c-1101718" wrote:
"AoE tenacity down" soooo Dengar

Not a very good toon who's to slow to be useful in arena. And cannot apply tenacity down when tenacity up is there. Must crit hit in order to apply tenacity down which also needs to have a potency check for a chance to land tenacity down. Yet tenacity up goes up without a doubt and prevents any debuff minus the couple that are not resistavle such as Vader ability block on Jedi. Also, provided tenacity down can actually be applied, it is not a 100% guaranteed chance to land debuffs like tenacity up is a 100% chance to resist them. And once it's applied in this meta of Rex, GK, Chirrut and R2, it will be immediately cleansed the next turn. Then tenacity up is applied.

"Drazz127;c-1101744" wrote:
So basically... make it so there's no counter to sith? And this isn't even a leader ability like Zader? +50%CC and +50%CD and the other team can't resist debuffs? Tenacity up isn't a problem, it's a necessary counter in this game. Dark side debuffs, Light side cleanses. It's how it all works.

How many effective Sith teams do you see anymore vs the triple cleanse? Almost none. The meta is Rex, GK, Chaze, R2 etc... guaranteed cleanse and preventing of all debuffs. There's no DS counter to that.

"Allenb60;c-1101777" wrote:
I just realized Ashoka Tano Fulcrum would probably be made immune to tenacity down or any negative effect if it can be re-applied like zeta Vader's DoTs

Correct. She will immediately cleanse it herself when that toons turn is over.

"Tuftedpaper85;c-1101806" wrote:
Tenacity up is a necessary counter to the crippling debuffs that exist in the game. If they do anything to "fix" tenacity up, then they should go through a whole game wide balance update so that teams that aren't reliant on debuffs are still relevant. Otherwise, they're just giving themselves something else to"fix" down the road..

What's the counter to never being able to land a debuff? Tenacity up and tenacity down are not equal. And the automatic cleanse on top of tenacity up out the power on the LS in a big way.

"Mitchell_13;c-1101812" wrote:
I don't get it. Just use B2. Bye bye tenacity

Sure... a wet noodle hitter that can clear tenacity up and might have a chance to apply buff immunity only for buff immunity to be immediately cleansed and replace with debuff immunity (I mean tenacity up).

Yes. B2 is a good option. But, that's his only usefulness in the lineup. Where you have Rex, Chirrut and GK and now R2 with his Zeta... that have so many other uses on the team.

Rex gives a huge TMG to the entire team. 100% guaranteed cleanse and debuff immunity.

GK is fast, tanky, 100% cleansing, retribution giving, entire team attacking toon.

Chirrut is another 100% cleaning, health equalizing, buff giving and tenacity up giving, super hard hitting attacker that's also pretty tanky.

B2... he can clear tenacity up only to have one of the above reapply it the very next turn. Yeah he has a chance to gai. Extra TM. But it's one wet noodle hitter with 1 use in the game vs 3 super solid toons with many uses to crush anyone.

"tmntguy86;c-1101873" wrote:
And cannot apply tenacity down when tenacity up is there. Must crit hit in order to apply tenacity down which also needs to have a potency check for a chance to land tenacity down.

This is incorrect. Tenacity Down applies over Tenacity Up, and can not be resisted.

"Woodroward;c-1101894" wrote:

"tmntguy86;c-1101873" wrote:
And cannot apply tenacity down when tenacity up is there. Must crit hit in order to apply tenacity down which also needs to have a potency check for a chance to land tenacity down.

This is incorrect. Tenacity Down applies over Tenacity Up, and can not be resisted.

I don't believe this is correct at all, tenacity up blocks all. And even if, it's kind of a moot point. Tenacity up should be a big to existing toon tenacity, making it harder to land debuffs... harder, not impossible. This isn't just about the Zaul counter, this would still counter even if it didn't 100% block all. It would not take much to correct. After all, tenacity down does not guarantee applying debuffs, it just makes them more likely to stick. Why should tenacity up guarantee no debuffs stick? This is not balance and its almost certainly not WAI... it's just the game was much different when this buff was introduced. Now it needs to be fixed.

Tenacity down is irresistible. If a character has both they cancel each other out.

"Bulldog1205;c-1101942" wrote:
Tenacity down is irresistible. If a character has both they cancel each other out.

Tenacity up does not disappear if you hit the toon that has it with tenacity down (that would be the cancel each other you're suggesting)... and tenacity down, even when applied, does not guarantee landing additional debuffs.