easiest fix for tenacity up problem

"WrathofCaedus;c-1101949" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1101942" wrote:
Tenacity down is irresistible. If a character has both they cancel each other out.

Tenacity up does not disappear if you hit the toon that has it with tenacity down (that would be the cancel each other you're suggesting)... and tenacity down, even when applied, does not guarantee landing additional debuffs.

Yes it does. If someone has tenacity up and you meet the requirements for the tenacity down buff to be applied, it will do so 100% of the time, and you will no longer see the tenacity up icon.

I understand what you are arguing about here even if I don't agree with changing tenacity down, but you are 100% wrong in thinking that it doesn't apply when tenacity up is in place. It not only applies, it overwrites it (unlike the other opposite buff/debuffs where they exist simultaneously).

"tmntguy86;c-1101873" wrote:

"Zombie961;c-1101718" wrote:
"AoE tenacity down" soooo Dengar

Not a very good toon who's to slow to be useful in arena. And cannot apply tenacity down when tenacity up is there. Must crit hit in order to apply tenacity down which also needs to have a potency check for a chance to land tenacity down. Yet tenacity up goes up without a doubt and prevents any debuff minus the couple that are not resistavle such as Vader ability block on Jedi. Also, provided tenacity down can actually be applied, it is not a 100% guaranteed chance to land debuffs like tenacity up is a 100% chance to resist them. And once it's applied in this meta of Rex, GK, Chirrut and R2, it will be immediately cleansed the next turn. Then tenacity up is applied.

"Drazz127;c-1101744" wrote:
So basically... make it so there's no counter to sith? And this isn't even a leader ability like Zader? +50%CC and +50%CD and the other team can't resist debuffs? Tenacity up isn't a problem, it's a necessary counter in this game. Dark side debuffs, Light side cleanses. It's how it all works.

How many effective Sith teams do you see anymore vs the triple cleanse? Almost none. The meta is Rex, GK, Chaze, R2 etc... guaranteed cleanse and preventing of all debuffs. There's no DS counter to that.

"Allenb60;c-1101777" wrote:
I just realized Ashoka Tano Fulcrum would probably be made immune to tenacity down or any negative effect if it can be re-applied like zeta Vader's DoTs

Correct. She will immediately cleanse it herself when that toons turn is over.

"Tuftedpaper85;c-1101806" wrote:
Tenacity up is a necessary counter to the crippling debuffs that exist in the game. If they do anything to "fix" tenacity up, then they should go through a whole game wide balance update so that teams that aren't reliant on debuffs are still relevant. Otherwise, they're just giving themselves something else to"fix" down the road..

What's the counter to never being able to land a debuff? Tenacity up and tenacity down are not equal. And the automatic cleanse on top of tenacity up out the power on the LS in a big way.

"Mitchell_13;c-1101812" wrote:
I don't get it. Just use B2. Bye bye tenacity

Sure... a wet noodle hitter that can clear tenacity up and might have a chance to apply buff immunity only for buff immunity to be immediately cleansed and replace with debuff immunity (I mean tenacity up).

Yes. B2 is a good option. But, that's his only usefulness in the lineup. Where you have Rex, Chirrut and GK and now R2 with his Zeta... that have so many other uses on the team.

Rex gives a huge TMG to the entire team. 100% guaranteed cleanse and debuff immunity.

GK is fast, tanky, 100% cleansing, retribution giving, entire team attacking toon.

Chirrut is another 100% cleaning, health equalizing, buff giving and tenacity up giving, super hard hitting attacker that's also pretty tanky.

B2... he can clear tenacity up only to have one of the above reapply it the very next turn. Yeah he has a chance to gai. Extra TM. But it's one wet noodle hitter with 1 use in the game vs 3 super solid toons with many uses to crush anyone.

Try running a team without a cleanser or tenacity-upper against a zaul, Zader, nihilus, or palp team. More often than not the match will be over before it even starts.

Tenacity up and cleanse is a necessary counter that allows light side teams to compete. Now, we can have discussion about how people are able to run three cleansers in a team and still be competitive, but that has more to do with those specific characters that they use (*cough* Chirrut *cough* kenobi *cough*) rather than the mechanics behind cleanse and tenacity up

"WrathofCaedus;c-1101949" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1101942" wrote:
Tenacity down is irresistible. If a character has both they cancel each other out.

Tenacity up does not disappear if you hit the toon that has it with tenacity down (that would be the cancel each other you're suggesting)... and tenacity down, even when applied, does not guarantee landing additional debuffs.

It doesn't disappear always, no. They won't display together, but they are both there. When they are both there it will act like neither is there. One can persist longer than the other though.

1) Tenacity Down is one of the few debuffs that can actually land through Tenacity Up. (Kind of defeats the purpose if it doesn't)
2) While both Tenacity Up and Tenacity Down are on the same character, there is a display bug which only shows one of them. (Hence a lot of complaints from Tenacity Up users that debuffs are still landing on them)
3) If both the buff and debuff is active at the same time, their effects negate each other out, I.e. Tenacity value goes back to the one seen on character stats. They do not cancel off each other(Both do not get removed) though as the buff and debuff have different duration. (On top of that, Tenacity Down can be cleansed away earlier)

I'll just copy pasta my thoughts on Tenacity Up from the other thread here:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1100791/#Comment_1100791

Or B2.

"Boreas;c-1101835" wrote:

"Drazz127;c-1101744" wrote:
So basically... make it so there's no counter to sith? And this isn't even a leader ability like Zader? +50%CC and +50%CD and the other team can't resist debuffs? Tenacity up isn't a problem, it's a necessary counter in this game. Dark side debuffs, Light side cleanses. It's how it all works.

Then make it so that no light side character can inflict a debuff, remove TM etc. Light side should cleanse and grant TM, Dark Side should inflict debuff and remove TM. And fix tenacity up like tenacity down, just as there is always a 15% resist in the code, there should be always a 15 % chance to inflict debuffs with a potency/tenacity check.

How about we make it so the chance to resist is 50% if tenacity = potency, and each percent difference is a greater chance to resist or a buff be applied. Right now it's broken that you have to have more than 15% tenacity than potency to increase your chance to resist at all. Tenacity up is critical due to the crazy imbalance on pot vs ten, which greatly favors sith.

"Niza_Squirell;c-1101772" wrote:
Easier fix would be that tenacity up increases tenacity by X% (probably 25-50) and likewise tenacity down reduces by X%

I don't understand why tenacity up makes every attack impossible to inflict debuff - it's tenacity up, not tenacity max!

That would make tenacity up one of the most useless buffs in the game.
Go run a Luke lead see how well the 45% tenacity from his lead does.
Go add a full tenacity mod set to get tenacity around 100% see how many debuffs stick.

Tenacity is so useless that it had to be the way it is for tenacity up to do anything with the current way potency is so much more powerful than tenacity.