HRST unfair for top guilds

And when I say even out the rewards I mean bump up rewards for people out of the top 10, do not nerf the top rewards

I figure unfortunately that’s what they will do with rewards. With that said I still think it sucks. We have TW’s and TB’s where the whole guild gets a rewards. I love GAC, but it’s my guild that keeps we playing.

"Rebmes;c-2199831" wrote:
Would it be better if everyone got the same reward? Maybe, but then, why would anyone even try? Who would carry the load? Probably the same few people each time. Those few people should get a little extra, don't you think?

Man, I thought I was gonna defend evening out the rewards... -.-

Under that rational how ever does TB/TW get finished?

Do the few carry the load for the many there?

Do they get extra for carrying the load if they do?

He's got a point.

Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?

In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different (other than allowing players to score zero/low and still receive OK rewards)?

Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?

"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?

In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different (other than allowing players to score zero/low and still receive OK rewards)?

Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?

It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)

The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.

TL;DR - the larger issue is the multiple gear bottlenecks that CG has created - some which build on each other. CG hasn't done enough to alleviate the gear crunch as the need for higher-level gear has increased with more characters, higher requirements, etc.

"Waqui;c-2200060" wrote:

"Nikoms565;c-2199956" wrote:

"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?

In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different (other than allowing players to score zero/low and still receive OK rewards)?

Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?

It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)

The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.

Yes, but why now? The fact that more and more players are now able to solo the raid actually solves this issue. What's the issue now? The only issue I see now is, that the players who used to have the whole cake now have to share it with their fellow guild members.

It’s probably a bit of the opposite as well. People who were formerly relegated to taking low ranks are now able to solo the raid - and feel that their rewards should be improving as a result.
For those players I imagine it feels a bit like a kick in the teeth to solo the raid and still not take top ranks as a result.

"Waqui;c-2200060" wrote:

"Nikoms565;c-2199956" wrote:

"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?

In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different (other than allowing players to score zero/low and still receive OK rewards)?

Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?

It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)

The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.

Yes, but why now? The fact that more and more players are now able to solo the raid actually solves this issue. What's the issue now? The only issue I see now is, that the players who used to have the whole cake now have to share it with their fellow guild members.

Because the players who have had the whole cake to themselves for months and months and months are already very far ahead of their fellow guild members. When a new raid (or new "tier", as apparently the case will be) drops they'll be able to to jump to the top of that heap and reap top rewards sooner as well.

Full disclosure - I'm one of my guild finishing in the top 10 of HSith regularly. I also am one of the people that pointed out this flaw back when CG first changed HSith rewards to be so top heavy.

The rich get richer and the people in the guild that need the rewards to build their roster can never catch those in the guild who are reaping the highest rewards - and , because of the obvious concerns, those with the top rewards can't "donate" that top gear to the lesser players anyway.

Raids are supposed to be a guild accomplishment. Not a competition within the guild. But the reward structure of Hsith has made them the latter, not the former. As I said, I benefit from the poorly designed, top-heavy reward structure - but I can still see it's not a good system.

And before anyone suggests that guilds should rotate solos or stronger players should "lay back" once in a while, or damage or timing caps or any other silly guild guidelines to "help" the situation, I would suggest that it shouldn't be on the guilds and their leadership to attempt to mitigate a poorly designed payout structure for an event that is supposed to be a combined guild effort.

"Nikoms565;c-2200108" wrote:

"Waqui;c-2200060" wrote:

"Nikoms565;c-2199956" wrote:

"Waqui;c-2199893" wrote:
Why did the rewards structure suddenly become unfair just because (one or many) players can now solo the raid? If the structure was fair before why not after? Players have been "screwed out of (top-10) rewards" ( @Mugz722' words) for years. Why is that suddenly a problem now that players can solo the raid?

In guilds where many players solo the raid every time (raid after raid) the rewards get distributed more evenly since in case of ties the order is random. Why is that unfair? And how exactly would "evening out" the rewards be any different ?

Yes, more total rewards would be nice for your guild. Agreed. But what's the reasoning behind your request?

It wasn't fair before. That's actually the bigger point. Many more non "tip of the spear" guilds are just realizing now. That said, the real issue is the (now) mutli-layered gear crunch that CG has engineered through added gear levels and their respective recipes (many g12+ pieces not only require "HSith gear", but gear from earlier bottleneck points - carbanti, stun guns, cuffs, etc.)

The complaints about raid rewards really just stem from the fact that raids, relatively speaking, are throwing scraps to anyone outside of the top 10 (HSith most especially). That simply is resulting in gear-starved players fighting ravenously over the scraps that drop.

Yes, but why now? The fact that more and more players are now able to solo the raid actually solves this issue. What's the issue now? The only issue I see now is, that the players who used to have the whole cake now have to share it with their fellow guild members.

Because the players who have had the whole cake to themselves for months and months and months are already very far ahead of their fellow guild members. When a new raid (or new "tier", as apparently the case will be) drops they'll be able to to jump to the top of that heap and reap top rewards sooner as well.

Full disclosure - I'm one of my guild finishing in the top 10 of HSith regularly. I also am one of the people that pointed out this flaw back when CG first changed HSith rewards to be so top heavy.

The rich get richer and the people in the guild that need the rewards to build their roster can never catch those in the guild who are reaping the highest rewards - and , because of the obvious concerns, those with the top rewards can't "donate" that top gear to the lesser players anyway.

Raids are supposed to be a guild accomplishment. Not a competition within the guild. But the reward structure of Hsith has made them the latter, not the former. As I said, I benefit from the poorly designed, top-heavy reward structure - but I can still see it's not a good system.

And before anyone suggests that guilds should rotate solos or stronger players should "lay back" once in a while, or damage or timing caps or any other silly guild guidelines to "help" the situation, I would suggest that it shouldn't be on the guilds and their leadership to attempt to mitigate a poorly designed payout structure for an event that is supposed to be a combined guild effort.

This is a different issue than the one described by OP. OP discusses top guilds and solos. And that many solos amplifies the problem with the reward structure. I disagree. When many guild members can solo the raid it actually solves the problem, you describe. Raid rewards are now automatically distributed more evenly among the guild members who solo the raid every time. Hence my question: Why now?

But OK, OP also wants increased rewards in general (for rank 11 and lower) and not just a more even distribution - and who wouldn't want more rewards?

From what they have said simming this raid is a long ways off.

Fyi - if/when they do finally even out rewards, they will lower the top end and bring up the rest. We saw this when they tried to fix HAAT rewards.

Would it be better if everyone got the same reward? Maybe, but then, why would anyone even try? Who would carry the load? Probably the same few people each time. Those few people should get a little extra, don't you think?

Man, I thought I was gonna defend evening out the rewards... -.-