JML + Bastilla lead + Wat = problem

"Shiryu;c-2179187" wrote:

"scuba;c-2179177" wrote:

"Artumas;c-2179163" wrote:
At the start of each Linked enemy's turn, Linked enemies lose 20% Max Protection, quadrupled for Jedi, and Sith Eternal Emperor gains 25% of the amount lost.

Max Protection =/= Protection, this is why Prot up (which doesn't increase a character's base max protection) isn't affected. SEE's interaction with Prot up is 100% WAI, the only question is "should it work that way", as well as "is protection up WAI".

Specific wording in this game matters a LOT to figure out how something's supposed to be working.
(I'm also still not 100% sure Protection Up (Padme, Bastilla, etc.) and Bonus Protection (Rey, etc.) are even the same thing...)

Yes and no.
The wording is important because it is the only real thing the players have as to what a charater should be able to do
However word order isn't necessary ever how the ability works, and it has been this way and they don't seem to want to change it.
For example almost every ability states it performs damage before applying a debuff yet it is rarely the case.


The mechanics of an ability only show how it is programed not necessarily the intention (again only CG knows the intention).
Players can only see how things are happening (the protection up and max protection interaction has been going on forever, however it doesn't mean that it is correct, just means it might not have been noticed before.

This is definitely the kind of thing that CG should give input on as to the intention and if it is meeting it or not. We as players can speculate all day and CG can come in and say nope it is this (bariss zeta "nerf")

I want to thank you for all your input and I think at this point we just need a dev to step in and take a look. Not only to clarify interaction but also how prot up, max prot, bonus prot works in general. Especially since they have introduced 2 characters at this point that steals stats.

Yeah anything at this point is speculation, and I am sure they will be reviewing this (even if they don't run right here and tell us)

"scuba;c-2179101" wrote:

"ExcessiveFist;c-2179095" wrote:

"scuba;c-2179088" wrote:
Reason malak doesn't gain protection up

Modify stat Max Protection by -1000% (multiplicative)

So he would have to gain enough protection up to overcome the -1000% protection for it to start showing

Also, all of the heroes who gain protection up even if they have no remaining points of protection still have a protection pool; it's just empty. Malak just doesn't have a protection pool, period, and I'm assuming that bit of code is the easiest way for them to dictate the fact that he does not have protection.

Not to mention, for the love of god, Malak doesn't need to be any more of an annoying POS of a character than he already is.

Malak had a protection pool, it is just equal to -1000% of his protection.
Assuming heath is equal to protection for ease, he would need to gain 1001% protection for it to start showing.

Before they just set it to 0, and these units started to regain protection

Code-wise that’s true, but I’d argue that the spirit of “at the beginning of battle he loses all protection and gains that much max health” indicates he’s meant to be a completely protectionless character. Coding it to be -1000% looks like it’s simply a convenient way to ensure that he isn’t impacted by protection-centric effects.

Sorry I haven’t kept up with recent discussions. Is JML trash and a useless paperweight or is he unbeatable OP and needs to be nerfed?

Kind of both it seems...

"vincentlondon;c-2179107" wrote:
When do they nerf JML?

Nah, they would buff SLKR

"Stokat;c-2179257" wrote:
Sorry I haven’t kept up with recent discussions. Is JML trash and a useless paperweight or is he unbeatable OP and needs to be nerfed?

Simple.

Without Wat Tambor buff, he is not that great and easily beaten by a lot of teams

With Wat Tambor buff, you just need a full rebel team to go through it. Not really that OP I guess

But with the ulti could be another story

"Sithlords_Inc;d-236780" wrote:
Just saw Bulldogs video where JML with tank tech under Bastilla lead will recover his bonus protection every turn, making him practically unkillable. SEEP cant even kill him on offense, since his Link doesnt affect bonus protection, and I doubt even his ultimate will give him enough dmg to get through a tanky Luke (his undispellable shock wont help either since it only prevents health recovery). That means that SEEP cant beat the guy hes pretty much designed to counter, while Kylo can 1v5 SEEP.

Cant imagine this is an intended interaction, and really hope they intend to fix this.

I think it's okay because he was ridiculously being beaten by Revan and now he's good

"Shiryu;c-2179051" wrote:

"Kyno;c-2179004" wrote:

"Shiryu;c-2178988" wrote:


That would explain why malak cant get protection up, but by that account hitting malak with protection up would technically add to his max health since he converts all protection into max health, but this doesn't happen.

The conversion only happens at the beginning of the battle, its not happening constantly, that is why that buff doesn't interact with his health.

then why can't he gain protection up after the fact then? By all intensive purposes he should be able to by that logic.

Intents and purposes****

"ExcessiveFist;c-2179222" wrote:

"scuba;c-2179101" wrote:

"ExcessiveFist;c-2179095" wrote:

"scuba;c-2179088" wrote:
Reason malak doesn't gain protection up

Modify stat Max Protection by -1000% (multiplicative)

So he would have to gain enough protection up to overcome the -1000% protection for it to start showing

Also, all of the heroes who gain protection up even if they have no remaining points of protection still have a protection pool; it's just empty. Malak just doesn't have a protection pool, period, and I'm assuming that bit of code is the easiest way for them to dictate the fact that he does not have protection.

Not to mention, for the love of god, Malak doesn't need to be any more of an annoying POS of a character than he already is.

Malak had a protection pool, it is just equal to -1000% of his protection.
Assuming heath is equal to protection for ease, he would need to gain 1001% protection for it to start showing.

Before they just set it to 0, and these units started to regain protection

Code-wise that’s true, but I’d argue that the spirit of “at the beginning of battle he loses all protection and gains that much max health” indicates he’s meant to be a completely protectionless character. Coding it to be -1000% looks like it’s simply a convenient way to ensure that he isn’t impacted by protection-centric effects.

No, it was changed to that not because they where getting protection up, but because the protection up could restore thier protection between battles in GW. This changed happens before malak was introduced.

To me it is bugged. One of the reasons protection up is scaled off of health and not protection is because every unit always has health and may not have protection. So if malak or DN lead with are not supposed to gain protection up it should state such.

Seep+Thrawn+pretaunt should handle slkr counter no? Since seep could only target the tank move one, then Thrawn fracture and then they should be able to beat him down before fracture wears off

If jmls needs basti lead, then he isnt as well designed as they wanted. Everyone remember when slkr came out, people though phasma lead was better than slkr lead. I think it was well before the slkr buff that people abandoned that and moved back to Slkr lead.

I think it's way too early to make any sort of wide sweeping conclusions on either of these... Ahnald videos of all the teams that counter seep have a weird team around seep so I hold those with a grain of salt. I'll have him in a few days so will have to play around with him and see.