Major Flaw in the Krayt Raid

"iMalevolence;c-2424028" wrote:

"Drathuk916;c-2424026" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424025" wrote:

"Drathuk916;c-2424024" wrote:
Why this is a nothing bug even at a 10 minute delay per raid. So first at 10 minutes per raid, you need to launch 144 raids before you “lose a day of tickets.” However, if your guild didn’t average 29930 tickets or more for 436 days you’d have lost a day raiding due to not having tickets and the 144 raids restarts because you shift to launching raid back to right after guild reset. Of course the smaller the delay is consistently the closer to perfect you have to be on tickets.

Now, if you do manage to make it a full 444 days where your guild averages more than 29930 tickets, you are only “losing tickets” if your guild averaged more than 29965 because if your guild was between 29930 and 29965 you can handle getting a 4 days of tickets in a 3 day window.

But what of roster locks you say? Tw and gac are on 28 day cycles while the raid is on a three day cycle. It’ll take 84 days to complete the pattern of locks. So, there is no sense in trying to “time a raid ending for right before a lock.

That all said, if it’s an easy fix to make it exactly 72 hours by all means.

See 33% loss from guilds on fixed timers starting a raid, getting tickets, getting tickets, getting tickets, finalizing late and not starting again, and getting tickets again, repeating the process every 4 days.

Sure I can hit myself in the head over and over again, but it’s not someones elses fault for it hurting. Why have a fixed timer?

Why should one of the plethora of options available to guilds result in up to a 33% loss in rewards for no discernible reason?

Legacy spaghetti code. Why are you so fixated on launching at the exact same time when it doesn’t matter? I’m not opposed to fixing the issue at all but I just don’t understand why it’s such a big issue. Especially with what I explained above.

"Drathuk916;c-2424032" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424028" wrote:

"Drathuk916;c-2424026" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424025" wrote:

"Drathuk916;c-2424024" wrote:
Why this is a nothing bug even at a 10 minute delay per raid. So first at 10 minutes per raid, you need to launch 144 raids before you “lose a day of tickets.” However, if your guild didn’t average 29930 tickets or more for 436 days you’d have lost a day raiding due to not having tickets and the 144 raids restarts because you shift to launching raid back to right after guild reset. Of course the smaller the delay is consistently the closer to perfect you have to be on tickets.

Now, if you do manage to make it a full 444 days where your guild averages more than 29930 tickets, you are only “losing tickets” if your guild averaged more than 29965 because if your guild was between 29930 and 29965 you can handle getting a 4 days of tickets in a 3 day window.

But what of roster locks you say? Tw and gac are on 28 day cycles while the raid is on a three day cycle. It’ll take 84 days to complete the pattern of locks. So, there is no sense in trying to “time a raid ending for right before a lock.

That all said, if it’s an easy fix to make it exactly 72 hours by all means.

See 33% loss from guilds on fixed timers starting a raid, getting tickets, getting tickets, getting tickets, finalizing late and not starting again, and getting tickets again, repeating the process every 4 days.

Sure I can hit myself in the head over and over again, but it’s not someones elses fault for it hurting. Why have a fixed timer?

Why should one of the plethora of options available to guilds result in up to a 33% loss in rewards for no discernible reason?

Legacy spaghetti code. Why are you so fixated on launching at the exact same time when it doesn’t matter? I’m not opposed to fixing the issue at all but I just don’t understand why it’s such a big issue. Especially with what I explained above.

We have already changed ours, but other guilds may not be as keen to have spotted the problem. And regardless, at some point, a lot of guilds on immediate will lose tickets. The underlying issue still remains that the duration in days (rounded up) of a raid should never exceed the tickets earned during that duration. The current implementation fails that check.

"herd_nerfer;c-2424034" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424031" wrote:


Yeah, I know you weren't. I was just pointing out where I got my worse case. I'm also just absolutely disgusted with the other people who are because this is very clearly a problem that should be addressed.

Is it really a MAJOR FLAW though? If you rename the thread to say "minor hiccup" instead of "MAJOR FLAW" maybe people might be more inclined to agree with you.

A potential 33% loss in rewards is a MAJOR flaw.

"BubbaFett;c-2424040" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424038" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2424034" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424031" wrote:


Yeah, I know you weren't. I was just pointing out where I got my worse case. I'm also just absolutely disgusted with the other people who are because this is very clearly a problem that should be addressed.

Is it really a MAJOR FLAW though? If you rename the thread to say "minor hiccup" instead of "MAJOR FLAW" maybe people might be more inclined to agree with you.

A potential 33% loss in rewards is a MAJOR flaw.

The most MAJOR FLAW here is on the part of your officers not setting the raid to launch immediately....

I have pointed out what feels like a half dozen times that ours is set to launch immediately. Quit trolling.

"BubbaFett;c-2424044" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424041" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-2424040" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424038" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2424034" wrote:

"iMalevolence;c-2424031" wrote:


Yeah, I know you weren't. I was just pointing out where I got my worse case. I'm also just absolutely disgusted with the other people who are because this is very clearly a problem that should be addressed.

Is it really a MAJOR FLAW though? If you rename the thread to say "minor hiccup" instead of "MAJOR FLAW" maybe people might be more inclined to agree with you.

A potential 33% loss in rewards is a MAJOR flaw.

The most MAJOR FLAW here is on the part of your officers not setting the raid to launch immediately....

I have pointed out what feels like a half dozen times that ours is set to launch immediately. Quit trolling.

I told you what the problem was with my first post in this thread and you don't seem to want to listen.... Then you have gone on and on about fixed timers and other people's tickets etc etc.....

There are literally two possibilities at play here...

Possibility 1 - Your guild officers need to go in and REDO the raid settings making sure it is set to "launch immediately", ie uncheck the box, check the box and save the settings... (speaking from personal experience as an officer, this is what I had to do and why I tried to help you)

-OR-

Possibility 2 - CG is out to get you and your guild since you seem to be the only one still having issue with this...

I will leave it to you to decide which possibility is more likely to be the culprit....

1.) Ours is resolved. It happened, we caught it, but lost tickets. We then moved the window back because we had nothing to lose to see if it would continue to happen and it did, so we set to immediate.
2.) Replicating a bug and then wanting it fixed so others aren't negatively affected is a thing. People can be cautious for others and report problems.
3.) We lost tickets and that's the extent of our issue. Bringing up fixed time starts is because that is the most problematic scenario that results in massive losses.
4.) Other people have had raids not auto launch, so it's not uniquely specific.
5.) Again, you're trolling. Stop being toxic.

We have the raid set to a fixed starting time and almost lost tickets today. Thanks @iMalevolence for pointing this out, it's a ridiculously easy fix that possibly costs a non negligible amount of resources.

Before the crowd cries out again: there are several good reasons for a fixed start time. I'll name just a few: continuity, pings at fixed times - officer QoL, historical reasons, mere availability of the option, personal preference, dislike of odd numbers in start time.. Before y'all come at me: I'm going to set it to auto launch tonight. Just sad it doesn't work as intended.

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads with my morning coffee, people just not willing to acknowledge a problem... I'm sure your guilds, friends, and workplaces love you for it ;)

"herd_nerfer;c-2424309" wrote:

"effbro;c-2424301" wrote:
We have the raid set to a fixed starting time and almost lost tickets today. Thanks @iMalevolence for pointing this out, it's a ridiculously easy fix that possibly costs a non negligible amount of resources.

Before the crowd cries out again: there are several good reasons for a fixed start time. I'll name just a few: continuity, pings at fixed times - officer QoL, historical reasons, mere availability of the option, personal preference, dislike of odd numbers in start time.. Before y'all come at me: I'm going to set it to auto launch tonight. Just sad it doesn't work as intended.

I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads with my morning coffee, people just not willing to acknowledge a problem... I'm sure your guilds, friends, and workplaces love you for it ;)

I think most of the people "crying out" recognize that this isn't working as intended. Many of us take exception to the idea that this is a major flaw and will have a major impact on anyone, considering that the work-around is so absurdly easy and makes no appreciable difference to anyone in any respect. Op highlighted a bug, then proceeded to use hyperbole and edge case scenarios to make it seem like a much bigger issue than it is.

Your reasons for a fixed start time all come down to personal preference and ultimately have 0 impact on guild rewards - which is fine - I'm not saying your reasons aren't valid. They are, but it's unlikely that any of them rise to the level of importance for CG to actually do anything about it. There are plenty of personal preference and QoL issues that actually do have a major impact on the game play experience (fleet loadouts for instance). For this issue to steal dev time from genuinely major issues would be really unfortunate.

It's great to have the heads up about the problem - OP wasn't wrong in bringing it here to talk about it and make it known - it's not great to blow it so far out of proportion that the community at large actually starts to believe that it's a serious problem. Not everyone is going to bother doing the math but they'll be quick to jump on the band-wagon when people start throwing shade on CG. That's damaging to the game, damaging to the community, and distracts from actual issues that need to be fixed.

VERY well said!!

Yes it’ll happen once and that’s it. Unless you continue to try to have the raid end right before your guilds reset. I’ve yet to hear an important reason why it is significantly better to push for raids ending then.

"Drathuk916;c-2424345" wrote:
Yes it’ll happen once and that’s it. Unless you continue to try to have the raid end right before your guilds reset. I’ve yet to hear an important reason why it is significantly better to push for raids ending then.

That i don't know. I was just sharing the data on the pushing of the time. maybe CG will fix it but i won't hold my breath.

"scuba;c-2424340" wrote:
So here is some math, and if i remember I will update it later
Autolaunch is set to immediate (the "workaround" for this issue)
Guild Reset is 19:30 EDT
Raid ended Monday, May 22, 2023 5:48:52 PM EDT (1684792132 epoch)
Raid start Monday, May 22, 2023 5:50:53 PM EDT (1684792253000 epoch)

There was a push of 2 minutes
Data says the duration was 255698 seconds which is 71 hours and 98 seconds

So right now it looks like it is pushing the start time 2 mins every time, if this holds true you are looking at about Assuming 10 runs you are looking:
20 min push every month
or
1 hour push every 3 months


so my guild for instance will hit the issue in less than 6 months of the raid start pushing out past my guild reset time

I will try to give a new number when the the raid restarts today.

If I'm understanding your math correctly, your guild will see this issue in a little less than 6 months - and then it will take another 72 months for it to happen again - and that's making a large assumption that your guild (or any guild) will maintain 50/50 members at all times and all 50 members will always get their 600 tickets per day - for three years straight. Now that's not impossible to do, but I doubt even the most dedicated guilds can claim that they've done that across any given span of 72 months since launch.

You're the first person to post these numbers in a way that's easy to follow and understand, so you have my sincere thanks for that. And thanks for taking the time to look into it and post your data.

To reiterate - I do think they should fix it, and it's nice to have a heads up about it. I don't think they should prioritize it ahead of other things.