Forum Discussion
- b2, frenzy guys like bistan or bossk, sion,dt
- DaPowerfulJediNew SpectatorVader and Maul too.
- NotRealUltraSeasoned NewcomerIf memory serves, they did an update where Thrawn’s target of a TM swap goes first
- I know im going to get reemed for this, i like the coin flip. There needs to be some level of random. If you know exactly how everythings going to play out, there isnt much point. your stratagy should be able to absorb atleast a few unfavorable outcomes.
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.- cannonfodder_ivNew SpectatorExactly what @dimi4a said. We can't know developer intent, but if I recall correctly, bonus terms first appeared with the GMY rework, which came after the EP rework, which really exposed the randomness associated with everybody being in the 100% TM pool. I would think anything that came out prior to Daze (Vader's culling blade) or prior to the Bonus Turn mechanic (GMY) would be subject to a review.
It looks like this was already done with Thrawn. It would be interesting to understand why shock and daze would still be intentional counters to the CLS, Vader and Maul abilities but the newer toons and/or reworks (GMY, Malak) wouldn't - outside of preserving the cash cow of course. "KausDebonair;c-1871420" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.
Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM. Nothing else. However getting a bonus turn can't be prevented, while getting 100% TM can. One doesn't function like the other. The only example where the description should be changed is Thrawn's TM swap which was left unchanged, when the functionality was changed."cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1871428" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1871420" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.
Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM. Nothing else. However getting a bonus turn can't be prevented, while getting 100% TM can. One doesn't function like the other. The only example where the description should be changed is Thrawn's TM swap which was left unchanged, when the functionality was changed.
I don't think this is true anymore and why the description differences that @KausDebonair points out are valid, and why Han Solo's description is inaccurately described as a "Bonus Turn" when he actually just starts an encounter with 100% TM. The "immediate bonus turn" mechanic, I believe, passes immediate control of the next turn to the specified character. There is no opportunity for other toons with full turn meters to go subject to coin flips among other toons with full turn meter.
Savior is a great example of this and one that we are all well aware of. I've fought hundreds of CLS vs. JKR battles and never once have I seen Savior be subject to the TM coin flip. The saved jedi always takes the next turn. GMY is another example. Since the rework, I've not seen anyone take a turn in between Masterstroke and GMY's next turn. CLS and Call to Action on the other hand is a very different story. Fighting CLS vs. JKR, if you trigger savior using Call to Action (by having a Chewie assist on a guarded CLS), CLS will never be the next character to go. If "bonus turn" semantics were the same as "100% TM", it would have happened at least once by now (average 4 CLS v JKR fights per day since January)
Anyone that runs Raid Han in "Smuggler's Run" knows that Shoot First doesn't mean "immediate bonus turn" as other members of his team can go ahead of him.
Therefore Han's should be corrected to say that he starts each encounter with 100% TM and not a "bonus turn"."Waqui;c-1873296" wrote:
"dimi4a;c-1873239" wrote:
"cannonfodder_iv;c-1873221" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1871428" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1871420" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1869181" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1869010" wrote:
"Rogenhamen;c-1869004" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868998" wrote:
"KausDebonair;c-1868996" wrote:
"DaPowerfulJedi;c-1868803" wrote:
Vader and Maul too.
They do not have any immediate bonus turn mechanics.
Oops. Vader technically does. But I can’t see anywhere that Maul does.
Maul takes another turn after he kills a unit with his basic.
Ah. I skipped that sentence when I read his abilities. Lol.
Regardless, I agree about the difference between bonus turns and immediate 100% TM gain. I’ve been in a few discussions on here before about them. A couple toons have ability listed as “bonus turn” but are still subject to a TM coin flip (Shoots First...). There needs to be a clear delineation of what is what in this terminology. Or, make them all the same, functionally.
It appears that the TM gain from getting a "bonus turn" can't be prevented with daze/shock, while the TM from getting "100% bonus TM" can. So there already is this delineation.
I understand there is a difference in how the two abilities function, what I’m saying is that some abilities are listed as “bonus turns” but their in-game functionality is that of 100% TM gain. That’s the delineation I’m talking about, that some abilities are described one way but function the other. This could (...will) lead to players to strategize one way when they shouldn’t due to incorrect description language.
Getting a bonus turn is getting 100% TM. Nothing else. However getting a bonus turn can't be prevented, while getting 100% TM can. One doesn't function like the other. The only example where the description should be changed is Thrawn's TM swap which was left unchanged, when the functionality was changed.
I don't think this is true anymore and why the description differences that @KausDebonair points out are valid, and why Han Solo's description is inaccurately described as a "Bonus Turn" when he actually just starts an encounter with 100% TM. The "immediate bonus turn" mechanic, I believe, passes immediate control of the next turn to the specified character. There is no opportunity for other toons with full turn meters to go subject to coin flips among other toons with full turn meter.
Savior is a great example of this and one that we are all well aware of. I've fought hundreds of CLS vs. JKR battles and never once have I seen Savior be subject to the TM coin flip. The saved jedi always takes the next turn. GMY is another example. Since the rework, I've not seen anyone take a turn in between Masterstroke and GMY's next turn. CLS and Call to Action on the other hand is a very different story. Fighting CLS vs. JKR, if you trigger savior using Call to Action (by having a Chewie assist on a guarded CLS), CLS will never be the next character to go. If "bonus turn" semantics were the same as "100% TM", it would have happened at least once by now (average 4 CLS v JKR fights per day since January)
Anyone that runs Raid Han in "Smuggler's Run" knows that Shoot First doesn't mean "immediate bonus turn" as other members of his team can go ahead of him.
Therefore Han's should be corrected to say that he starts each encounter with 100% TM and not a "bonus turn".
Getting a bonus turn is "getting 100% turnmeter, which can't be prevented". Nothing more. Nothing less.
Yes, the description may lead you to believe, that Han wil actually always move first, but according to the definition of aht a bonus turn is, the description is fine.
Well at least it would cut down on all the "why isn't my Han shooting first" threads we still somehow get in 2019.
Hahaha just kidding, no it wouldn't."cannonfodder_iv;c-1873300" wrote:
@Waqui So in your lexicon "Bonus Turn" means "100% TM" and "Immediate Bonus Turn" means takes the next turn and is not subject to turn meter mechanics.
Almost there.
Bonus turn: Add that the 100% TM gain cannot be prevented.
Immediate Bonus turn: A bonus turn, and a guarantee to take the next action.
Sure. I think we're in agreement. That being the case, then maybe CLS should take an "Immediate Bonus Turn" after Call to Action and maybe Raid Han should take an "Immediate Bonus Turn" from Shoots First.
Could be suggested, yes.
To clarify these situations, the "Bonus Turn" language should be changed to "gains 100% TM" since the current meaning, if accurately described above, is ambiguous.
That's insufficient. You need to add, that this 100% TM gain cannot be prevented.
You can prevent Biggs, B2 and others from gaining 100% turnmeter, by applying daze, shock etc. You can't prevent the turnmeter gain from a bonus turn.
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