Floating an extra zeta, been able to get 8% on p1 heroic and was gonna start saving for the Yoda team but I'm months off of that. Is self preservation worth it for sith raid ? My r2 tends to die first hoping it will help smoking bb8 .
Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.
I don’t think this is correct.
It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.
While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.
You don't take damage for attacking him with defence down. If you attack with defence down using A BASIC, Nihilus regenerates protection. Hence why tenacity and/or cleanse are key against Nihilus.
You need to reread his abilities. He regenerates protection AND you take damage. No need to belabor the basics part, I started by saying that and shortened it, it's in the quotes.
To be fair, you take damage to protection, which is basically irrelevant since he ignores protection anyway. Only place this would be relevant is in P4 since there's also Sion and BOW present.
Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.
I don’t think this is correct.
It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.
While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.
I should have specified, i meant not taking damage while using a basic with def down. I don’t think that’s true. I’m not sure if the cleanse stops nihilus from gaining protection either, but that’s irrelevant, as you said, due to the healing immu debuff being present the entire run. I’m not a 100% sure though. Regardless of all of that, its a useless zeta for p1 JTR STR. Even if you take damage from using basic whilst debuffed with def down, its vs your protection so it doesnt matter anyway. De def down only lasts 1 turn, so even without the cleanse on crit the debuff would have expired anyway and it doesnt prevent the def down from being re-applied. Having to use a basic when you have def down doesnt happen very often, so even if not taking prot dmg is important to you (assuming you’re correct), its still a situational zeta at best. Also, if you’re taking dmg from the adds you’re doing it wrong and nihilus his basic ignores protection aswell. Great zeta, but doesnt add anything in for a Jtr team in p1 STR. For reference:
Everyone's allowed to have their own point of view, but sometimes that point of view is wrong. Unfortunately that's you here.
R2's zeta stops him from gaining bonus protection when you attack him while you have defense down. Healing immunity does not. I've landed healing immunity on him with my droids and watched him gaining bonus protection anyway. Healing immunity ONLY stops the bonus protection at the start of his turn. ONLY not having defense down when you attack him with a basic prevents him gaining it on your turn.
There's no debate about it, R2's zeta will improve your offense against Nihilus.
Trying to say having the adds alive to hit you means you're doing it wrong is a deflection away from the point that there are still attacks that hit protection, so it isn't worthless, so R2's zeta absolutely gives your team more survivability... with adds. So let's not get elitist on strat up in here. I prefer to kill the adds with R2's AoE alone.
So, and this isn't an opinon, R2's zeta GUARANTEES improved survivability and increased offense for your team against Nihilus in P1.
used a basic with def down 3 times total in this vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1a5hqTKYUI&t=430s
used a basic with def down 5 times total in this vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebER5Sm1ok&t=134s
Probably too "elitist" for you, the selfproclaimed teacher (wich was a nice touch), but it does show how little R2's zeta comes into play, even if it does prevent the negative effects of using basics with def down. I'm still going to test that when i get the chance, i've no problem conceding if it turns out you were correct about that. JTR's lead CD reduction is actually way better than you give it credit for, it pairs really well with bb8. The TMR is also way better than you give it credit for, especially combined with the CD reduction. Saying R2's zeta is the most important/effective zeta on the whole team for p1 is just laughable. It's extra funny because you're so arrogant ;)
No idea where this thread took off too...but found the info for original question on reddit so feel free to virtually joust it out, most attention one of my posts has ever gotten lol.
Just chiming in, JTR lead zeta definitely better for P1 than either of R2's. Though both of R2's are great.
The bit I'm not understand is how its preventing him regaining protection. So a character with defence down crits and cleanses, but shouldn't the protection regain happen after the hit but before the cleanse?
Or is it crits from specials remove defence down so its safe to hit him with a basic?
Personally, my zeta order would be: JTR lead, R2 NC, BB8 RWTP, JTR Virtuous Protector, BB8 Self Presevation or R2 Combat Analysis, then the other one, then JTR Insight. That's if I was to zeta them now with P1 in mind, already had both R2's ages ago.
Scav Rey is the widely accepted fifth in that spot, but maybe the accepted fifth is wrong. Or maybe it works in T4 but not Heroic. Interesting. We have a T5 launching tonight so I might try someone else in that spot. You might get some more mileage out of a healer that can do more damage like Visas (mine is only 4* so I can't use her in T5). Holdo could also be a good choice, she can heal but also create exposes, which should do more damage than either Chirrut or Visas.
FWIW I ignore the adds as well. R2 kills them with burn eventually.
"TVF;c-1589649" wrote: Sorry @Woodroward I don't buy it. No way you can do 9m-10m on a single P1 run with Chirrut. I just used Finn in place of Rey, did 6.7m. With Rey I can do 7m to 7.5m. With Chirrut you gain absolutely nothing (I don't need a healer to survive to enrage) and you lose out on a bunch of exposes. Unless you have a video, or at least a screenshot, I don't believe you.
I run Chirrut purely for annihilate recovery in P1 tier 4, because RT and Rey ate missing key health steal pieces. Best I manage is around 4.7m. No chance they can nearly double that score.
No way my butt. I've done it numerous times. Dude won't believe what I'm saying because he didn't do that much. Of course team composition is everything. Strategy and mods don't mean jack...
/end sarcasm
Stop with this disrespectful BS based on nothing guys. He did around 50% more than you, but me doing as much better than him as he did compared to you is impossible?
I said what I have to say. None of it lies. Was wrong about a thing or 2 and admitted it. Everything else is my experience from how often I hit Nihilus with a basic whilst having defense down to how much i put in on an attempt. Your experience was different? Apparently your team differs from mine some way. The "you're lying because I didn't get the same results" tact is rather illogical and self-degrading.
"TVF;c-1589929" wrote: Again, Chirrut brings no damage to that team. And the tenacity up and healing are both unnecessary to the P1 JTR team. I'd love to believe you're on to something but you've provided nothing that indicates how this could actually work. 9m with that team on a single run in T4 P1 is not possible. If it were, you could probably do 12m with another Res in Chirrut's place, and you wouldn't be the only one doing it.
"I haven't done it, therefore it's impossible, and you're lying"
Read you loud and clear buddy. If you're trying to get me to tell you how I do what I do impugning my honor is the absolute wrong way to go about it. I'd send myself to the land of never ending fire before I'd help someone to prove them wrong when they're impugning my honor. I refuse to be manipulated like that.
It helps, but combat analysis helps more. I recommend getting that first if you don't have it.
Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.
So combat analysis is amazing at improving both offense and defense on Nihilus.
Self preservation protocol is also really nice, but not as effective as combat analysis.
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