Smuggler’s Run: Han doesn’t shoot first! Say what?!
Doh! Hey CG, ya might wanna fix this! :* <3
Forum Discussion
104 Replies
"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:
"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:
"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other."Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:
"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:
"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:
"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
They have a way to bypass the coin flip though as seen with the change made to thrawn. If they worded it as gains 100% tm at the start of the encounter, it would make it clear that they don't intend him to bypass the coin flip."Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:
"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:
"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:
"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Thrawn and Yoda's kits both prove this point incorrect."FailingCrab;c-1648475" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:
"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:
"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:
"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Thrawn and Yoda's kits both prove this point incorrect.
Those kits have specific wording to do as such. Hans kit does not."DarkHelmet1138;c-1648456" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:
"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:
"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:
"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
They have a way to bypass the coin flip though as seen with the change made to thrawn. If they worded it as gains 100% tm at the start of the encounter, it would make it clear that they don't intend him to bypass the coin flip.
How else do you take a turn in this game?
If someone said, my toon takes his turn then another one goes, would you think of any other way that could happen other than 100% TM.
They do have things to bypass that, and if they worded that he should go first or take the first action or anything other than just taking a bonus turn, I would agree. But a bonus is just a free turn, at the start of an encounter. Other things happen at the start of an encounter, including full TM of other toons. The only way multiple toons trying to take their turn is resolved is through a coin flip.
They could word it differently if they wanted him to not be caught in that mechanism, or code it to operate however they intend, we have seen this. Maybe they will change it maybe they will not, but it will most likely be accompanied by a description change to make it clear the intention that he is not subject to the coin flip because right now he is WAD."Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:
"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
The biggest issue I've seen isn't that he doesn't go first, it's that when he does get his "bonus" turn, he doesn't always get the bonuses. His first turn is supposed to be locked to basic only that ignores taunts, is unavoidable, and applies an irresistible stun. I have seen several clips and images that show his first turn with all abilities available."Kyno;c-1648515" wrote:
"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648456" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648440" wrote:
"DarkHelmet1138;c-1648409" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648399" wrote:
"Lightsabermon;c-1648326" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1648075" wrote:
"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,"Darknesswon;c-1648071" wrote:
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
They have a way to bypass the coin flip though as seen with the change made to thrawn. If they worded it as gains 100% tm at the start of the encounter, it would make it clear that they don't intend him to bypass the coin flip.
How else do you take a turn in this game?
If someone said, my toon takes his turn then another one goes, would you think of any other way that could happen other than 100% TM.
They do have things to bypass that, and if they worded that he should go first or take the first action or anything other than just taking a bonus turn, I would agree. But a bonus is just a free turn, at the start of an encounter. Other things happen at the start of an encounter, including full TM of other toons. The only way multiple toons trying to take their turn is resolved is through a coin flip.
They could word it differently if they wanted him to not be caught in that mechanism, or code it to operate however they intend, we have seen this. Maybe they will change it maybe they will not, but it will most likely be accompanied by a description change to make it clear the intention that he is not subject to the coin flip because right now he is WAD.
The current description is not really clear on whether he should bypass the coin flip or not. It can be read both ways as shown here in the arguements. That's why they need to clarify one way or another. When his zeta came out, he was guaranteed to go first. So even if it is working as described, it is not working as intended. Unless they intended to nerf a zeta after people already bought it and just not tell anyone why. But I doubt that since han going first doesn't break the game and that is typically the times they try to nerf teams (even if it only breaks the game in their minds cough cough ns).
But even then they announce nerfs ahead of time. So likely not working as intended even if you can read the description and justify how it is working.- Perhaps all the enemies also receive bonus turns? In which case you've got the classic Han Solo coin flip (in this case, more like a dice roll).
"Kyno;c-1648244" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1648175" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1647628" wrote:
"SnakesOnAPlane;c-1647601" wrote:
"Kyno;c-1647578" wrote:
Correct he doesnt shoot first, but he does get his bonus turn, as described by his ability.
The ability name says “Shoots first” and it says “...bonus turn at the start...”. The name and the “at the start” implies he’s first. In this case he doesn’t shoot first nor when he goes is it “at the start”. One can argue against WAI quite easily in this case.
He gets the bonus turn at the beginning of the match. A turn in this game is denoted by 100% TM. The name is a title and not a description of how the ability will work, that's what the description is for.
As always when multiple toons have 100% TM, there is no guarantee who will go first, although I suspect when event toons have this coded they will go before our side, but still in an order determined by RNG.
The wording always was and still is ambiguous. The text says Han 'takes a bonus turn'. This wording implies that he actually also makes his move. The actual implementation may be WAI (and it works well - no protests there), but it does not comply with the wording in the ability description and it never did.
In the case of Zaul lead, the wording is unambiguous. The text states that certain characters 'gain 20% Turn Meter' at the start of each encounter. That's a precise wording.
Similarly, the wording of the description of GMY's Masterstroke is, that he 'gains an immediate bonus turn'. Does this mean that he immediately gains 100% turn meter? What would be the difference of several other characters that gain 100% turn meter (B2, JKA, Biggs, etc.)? If yes, why isn't it simply worded like those characters - that GMY gains 100% TM? Or does it mean that GMY immediately makes his move with no other characters able to move before that immediate bonus turn? In that case: why so similar wordings for two so different behaviours (Han 'takes a bonus turn', GMY 'gains an immediate turn')? And Thrawn's grand Admirel's Command still only states, that it's a Turn Meter swap. It doesn't state, that the target immediately takes a turn.
Why all those confusing wordings? Why not be consistent and use the same wording for the same behaviour and use a clearly distinct wording for different behaviour?
CG really should change the text of Han's 'Shoot first' ability to make it clear, that he gains 100% Turn Meter instead of the ambiguous 'takes a bonus turn'.
Yes, Kyno, I've read your comments about this in previous discussions as well. 'Taking a turn' is defined by CG as receiving 100% turn meter. I know. However, it doesn't change the fact, that the ability description doesn't state that clearly. Changing the text would take a couple of minutes, with a few more minutes added for planning, testing and documentation - but it would save a lot of confusion for players.
Instead of repeating your comments, that Han is intended to simply receive 100% TM (which most players already know) why not move to the next step in the discussion and comment on the ambiguous wording of the ability description and the general inconsistency in ability descriptions? That would be helpfull for all of us.
Because if they intended for him to take the first action they could have worded it that way.
Thrawns description did not match the action that would happen. It was his turn and he is stated to seal that turn to another toon. They changed it to match the wording.
Are you even aware of how wrong you are?
Until recently, Thrawn's TM swap used to work EXACTLY as described in the ability description. The TM was swapped and from there on everything else worked as usual with coin flips in case of ties and all. The mismatch ocvured when they changed the behaviour but not the description of his ability.
And Han's behaviour does NOT match the description. His current behaviour. His current description. If the description was, that he would gain 100% TM THEN it would match.
Wake up, Kyno. Have a cup of coffee on the house.- @Kyno
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
