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Persimius
4 years agoSeasoned Traveler
"Ultra;c-2230071" wrote:"StarSon;c-2230027" wrote:"Ultra;c-2230022" wrote:"StarSon;c-2230007" wrote:"RandomSithLord;c-2229625" wrote:"Fatal;c-2229587" wrote:"Kyno;c-2229549" wrote:"Fatal;c-2229510" wrote:"Kyno;c-2229509" wrote:"Fatal;c-2229507" wrote:
Would it ever be possible to get a downgrade system? I don't expect it to refund for balance reasons. Give it 15 warning/confirmation screens or whatever to prevent accidents, but there have been more than a few theorycrafting situations lately where I'd kill to make a character lower relic or take off an ability upgrade. If GP smurfing/sandbagging is a concern, I'd still gladly take that trade even if my GP wasn't lowered when that downgrade was made. I'm effectively locked out of certain tactics and setups because I got excited over-upgrading characters in the past, and it's pretty frustrating.
@Fatal
No.
Would you expand on what tactics you think would work better with lower grade toons?
Ki-Adi-Mundi's unique is the most recent example, with the omega making his Makashi form strictly worse for his most common usage in the meta right now (under JML lead). Makashi stance is unusable against SLK or Rey, unless you can guarantee his taunt gets dispelled before SLK's next stun or Rey's whirlwind (basically just begging for the enemy AI to undo your Omega for you, and even then most of the time it's coming with extra control threat ie JTR's Mind Tricks, RH Poe's stun + dispel, KRU Halt). It's unfortunate, because the synergy between Makashi basic and Jedi lessons is fantastic.
It's also worse in LSTB, for example against Elite Dooku in Wave 4 of the Phase 3 GR Jedi mission. Activating Makashi stance forces KAM to taunt, and directs all counterattacks onto him. Due to his crit immunity in Makashi, Barriss Zeta can't heal him, GK can't taunt to help spread out the damage, and KAM gets stunned to oblivion by constant dooku counters in that stage of the fight, so he can't fend for himself either. If he didn't have the taunt, Dooku counters would spread out across the team and onto GK where Barriss can patch the damage up more consistently and have more presence.
Here's example footage of an R5 KAM with solid extra Protection modding getting killed near immediately after the choice to enter Makashi, in a team that was stable enough to continue eating Elite Dooku counters for 10 minutes after KAM died: https://youtu.be/Dj4ewiinuSY?t=1723. Discussions about misplays or reasons for battle loss aside, it's a clear demonstration of how poorly the omega works with the rest of his faction. The only way to safely use Makashi in that scenario would be to avoid getting countered as much as possible, which is pretty antithetical to what a taunter in your team should want. If I could remove that Omega, KAM's options for gameplay suddenly open up massively in that wave. Instead, I have to tiptoe around trying to not get him killed, or just avoid using Makashi altogether.
In terms of downgrading gear/relics, there are abilities that the AI targets based on which teammate has the lowest or highest combined health + protection. There are a few powerful defense setups I've theorycrafted + would love to make videos on them, but will never be able to because I upgraded those characters too much to be able to field the setup.
I know it's niche enough to probably not be worth spending man hours implementing the feature in game, but even if it were just possible to message support and to request a downgrade (not refund), it would be hugely appreciated.
Any health/protection manipulation can be done with mods, and upgrading the rest of the team, cant it?
Sometimes! And I've done it where possible. I had an L3 that could achieve higher HP + Protection than R7 Rey for purposes of R2 smokescreen targeting, and Malak was theoretically possible with a near perfect modset that I had almost obtained. %HP/%Prot secondaries had to be pristine.
Same for guarded Bossk, I had to upgrade Wat and Vandor to scale them over Bossk's lead. Sure, simple enough.
But there are certain leads/uniques that provide scaling that create dynamics that essentially boil down to "pray you never upgraded this ability, or else you must be "X" un-geared/relic'ed to proceed". And if you liked that character/already upgraded them, it's impossible.
And that's called consequences of choices made in a roster development game.
Except they've said a whole bunch of times they never want you to feel bad for progressing a character. Upgrading an ability and adding a detrimental effect as a result goes directly against what they've said they want. 5s Taunt is similar.
I actually think the taunt is good for KAM, and so is 5s taunt
Full disclosure: I have no idea if KAM's taunt is good or bad. Mine will not be activated until September. Fatal feels pretty strongly about it, and I trust he knows what he's talking about.
5s taunt, though... it goes against the entire point of the team, which is to get someone that isn't 5s to die.
I'm sure there are other abilities that are better when not fully upgraded because of weird side effects like this. I don't expect they'll ever let us downgrade abilities, but I understand the desire for such a system when they keep creating abilities like that.
I disagree with the idea that you want someone other than fives to die
Fives unique makes him a psuedo taunter without a taunt
If fives has no taunt, players on offense will still target fives
on offense you can just not make him taunt
Fives does get defense bonus when he's taunting so he's harder to kill when he's taunting so its better to make him taunt so that GAS stands up in time
Yeah but to "just not make him taunt" you are completely ignoring that other ability, because you don't want him to taunt.
I know it's not a "one size fits all" type thing, but there are, as you know, plenty of situations in which you having that ability omega'd is worse than having it not omega'd.
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