9 years ago

Underpowered Jedi

There are many good Jedi. There are many disappointing ones as well. I think the issue boils down to a couple things. I wish developers would work on fixing them. Here are my ideas.

Lack of focused play style synergy. Droids and rebels focus on criticals. Ewoks are themed around turn meter. Clones synergize around lots of assists.

Jedi working together don't have a core theme. Fixing bad Jedi to work on a coherent team play style theme would be great fix. They seem to be jack of all trades group which is a terrible design in any game. Focused design on specific roles either damage, heal, tank, debuffs, anti- certain factions would help. For example, there are several healing Jedi. Maybe they become a play style based on constant heals in some type of defensive play style theme versus most reworks boosting damage. There counter being the heal immunity debuffs, stuns, etc. IDK all the balance issues, but a defensive focused them would be good addition to all the offensive reworks lately.

Second, there are too many anti-Jedi toons with jedi not being the rock to other scissors. Outside of a few Jedi with anti-droid stuff. They have no real enemies, focus. Love to see Republic Jedi from clone wars, prequel movies to have synergy against the new Seperatist tags. This would be great additions as additional bonus to some Jedi's uniques and/or leader ability.

Now for the droid specific ones, they just need to be better, and they could be synergized to work together as a anti-droid theme. Koth is a good example. Why not make his debuffs against droids unresistable and maybe add chance to assist another Jedi who attacks a droid in addition to his dmg unique buff? That way it would improve usage of that anti-droid unique.

Also, more Jedi could get the JKA tweaks to work well with clones. Some of it could be simple by adding clones to their leader abilities. Some of it could be tweaks to their uniques.

Maybe an critical avoidance defensive theme? Ahoska seems primed for that one.

I'd also push for simple changes. Many of the Jedi kits are fine individually. They don't need full reworks. More Mace and Kitt changes like in last patch.

Continue to push small numerical tweaks to characters and/or small tweaks like adding clones to a leader skill for a Clones Wars Jedi so it is not only Jedi. Many of your characters are designed fine. They just need small tweaks to base numbers. Jedi are an example of this.

There is no excuse in today's age of big data that you can't see usage numbers to make small tweaks to guys (both nerfs, buffs) every month.

feedback

BrtStlnd
9 years ago
This is a really well thought out and well reasoned post. I completely agree that a faction that's supposed to be known as a cohesive, teamwork and support-based group really has no meaningful group synergy.
jrivera2169
9 years ago
"Patman6632;636853" wrote:
And scale back the damage on JKA's Aoe

No, if you cant deal with anakin, you shouldn't be playing. He is fine the way he is.
scottcovarrubia
9 years ago
I am going to disagree and say that their diversity is their strength.

People talk about counters to clones, Rebels, droids, RG/Rey/QGJ meta, and now the Palpatine/Vader/RG combo. You hear about how this team can beat that team, but not this third team.

In my experience, Jedi can beat any team (on offense) because of their diversity. Facing droids? Easy, Jedi have high health and IGD lead will pound all the AOE droids into the ground with counters. Palpatine and Vader...Old Ben or Dooku, no problem just use Battle Meditation and they get neutered real quick. Need to get around RG, no problem, QGJ is your guy. Rebels? Oh, I love this one. Have Yoda steal Leia's buffs and spread them to everyone. 10k crits for everyone! Clones, you ask? Put them behind Barriss and it's like you get cat scratches, nothing more. Oh, and that occasional Ewok team? Well, let's see how they do with counters when they get all their bonus attacks.

My standard team for the arena, raids, (and most of GW) is:

IGD (L)
Aayla
Anakin
QGJ
Yoda

I love them and don't see a need for a single change or substitution (but, would consider for another stunner like the Rey or Luke Jedi characters in the game).

Although...I would be intrigued if Mace were reworked into an anti-Sith character...
Joseirimia
9 years ago
"BrtStlnd;636846" wrote:
This is a really well thought out and well reasoned post. I completely agree that a faction that's supposed to be known as a cohesive, teamwork and support-based group really has no meaningful group synergy.

Would be nice each jedi have as unique extra ability something like: "for each jedi in the team, each jedi have +5% offense/defense/speed..." your choose of ability.
Brauug
9 years ago
That is what I'm trying to fix. There are many good Jedi that work on non-Jedi teams. Outside of counter Jedi team, there is not a great full Jedi team. IMO, this is because Jedi don't have a core idea. All Jedi don't need this fix. QGJ is good as is.

Ewoks are fun to play together cuz they are designed to feed into each other. Like EE's turn meter boost on basic for other ewoks. Jedi don't have a philosophy at all other than a few being plug and play for a single idea. Example: QGJ being BIC single target dispel. Mace also dispels but he is outdone. He also don't fit any other theme or synergy where he becomes choice instead of QGJ.

This would be fixed if say maybe he synergized with other Jedi into an anti-droid or anti-Seperatist theme. Maybe he could be tweaked to synergize in a Jedi defensive heal theme with other Jedi healers. His basic has that self heal.

Maybe his expose chance unique also has a small chance to call for a Jedi's heal special if a Jedi healer is present. This would not consume ability and or restet or start cool down on the called heal ability.

I'd love to run a full Jedi team with a coherent theme. Not just jack of all trade Jedi with Rey or universal toons that work in all teams regardless of team leader skill or synergy.
zkckranger
9 years ago
It is very strange in a Star Wars game that the Jedi are one of the worst classes to play.
Brauug
9 years ago
This issue also plagues most of the scoundrels. Are they supposed to be themed around thermal detonators? Criticals? Idk.

Cade Bane is anti-Jedi but none of the other scoundrels are designed for that. He fits with Sith which forces him to be with a universal sith leader if u going for an anti-Jedi team as theme.

All of the smaller factions have a core identity. Example: first order and advantage.

What are Jedi and Scoundrels' core idea(s), or are they supposed to be the plug in members to fill the gaps for other factions core ideas?
JacenRoe
9 years ago
Inevitably somebody will point out that there are great Jedi in the meta now. But JKA is a recent addition. He was trash. Also Palpatine totally negates any usefulness Old Ben has as a leader. Without that he hits like a kitten. Beyond them QGJ is the only other good one. But there are 15 Jedi currently. Most are somewhere between underwhelming, and total garbage. Also healers have declined in use since the protection update. At high level even good healers are dead weight. I'd love to see Jedi be strong enough to justify all these major anti Jedi abilities.
GaidalCain_WOT
9 years ago
Jedi are very versatile.

There is a REASON why so many characters have anti-Jedi abilities. If there weren't, I believe Jedi would be OP for a majority of players.

You can boost any stat you want with the right Jedi Leader. Evasion, health, offense, TM gains, counter, stealth removal, tenacity, and defense. No other faction has so many leader abilities available to them.

Just my $.02
JacenRoe
9 years ago
"Gaidal_Cain;637014" wrote:
Jedi are very versatile.

There is a REASON why so many characters have anti-Jedi abilities. If there weren't, I believe Jedi would be OP for a majority of players.

You can boost any stat you want with the right Jedi Leader. Evasion, health, offense, TM gains, counter, stealth removal, tenacity, and defense. No other faction has so many leader abilities available to them.

Just my $.02

Yeah, but the only anti Jedi toon that has been meta is Dooku (until Palpatine). A full Jedi team against any meta team without a single anti Jedi toon has been outmatched. Then on top of that there are mediocre toons who would be great against Jedi... If Jedi weren't so bad as a class already that meta toons can shred them effortlessly.

You're right that they are a versatile class. They do many things, but there isn't anything they do great. They're just OK. JKA, and QGJ are great. The other 13 are trash. And the thing Jedi are worst at is dealing damage. Healing might be the one thing they're best at, but healing has been gimped by protection. If I want to get destroyed in arena, I'll put in a healer.