Offense mods giving more critical damage than CD mods

Scavenger Rey is a great example. Let's put her in a comp under JTR with bb8 and C3p0.
Because she's an agility attacker she will get 13.5% cd from relics, 30% from JTR lead, 50% from ID, 42% from a triangle, and 40% from C3p0 and translation giving her 325.5% cd before the set. 355.5/325.5=1.0921658986175115207373271889401 So in this scenario Scav Rey is getting at most a 9% increase in overall damage from the critical damage set (at 100%cc it will be 9%).

An offense set with absolute max offense secondaries on Scav Rey would represent a 77.33% increase in offense over her base offense giving the offense set a value of 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% which is still lower than the crit damage set so I retract my earlier statement about levels of crit damage outside of the set.

Even at 325.5% cd on scav rey it is possible for the crit damage set to produce more damage than the offense set so it's probably better to just run the calculations.


Weird fun facts: The fewer offense secondaries you have, the higher the value of the offense set, but the more cc secondaries you have the more likely the cd set is better.

This means that the offense set is going to be better in general for more starting players and the crit damage set is going to be better in general for more advanced players.

Let's use the offense maximums for both sets and calculate de critical damage done in your example.

CD set
(1.7733 - 0.15)* 3.555 = 5.7708315
Off set
(1.7733) * 3.255 = 5.7720915

Sorry but I don't see CD set doing 9.21658986175115207373271889401% minus 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% more damage @ 100% CC

"Juzz;c-1974196" wrote:
Let's use the offense maximums for both sets and calculate de critical damage done in your example.

CD set
(1.7733 - 0.15)* 3.555 = 5.7708315
Off set
(1.7733) * 3.255 = 5.7720915

Sorry but I don't see CD set doing 9.21658986175115207373271889401% minus 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% more damage @ 100% CC

Sorry I made some math errors when I produced these calculations while half asleep.

The offense set produces a 8.609923493301474444108537340476% damage increase not a 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% damage increase and the offense before the set bonus is 1.7421757593630197581834267177824 not 1.7733 So is 1.892175... for the offense set.

1.7421757593630197581834267177824 * 3.55 =6.1847239457387201415511648481274 for the cd set
1.8921757593630197581834267177824 * 3.25 =6.1495712179298142140961368327927 for the offense set
1.7421757593630197581834267177824 * 3.25 =5.6620712179298142140961368327927 for no set

We can see that the damage is very close for the crit damage and offense sets (just under a 10% increase) but that the CD set is barely superior. If the sets weren't almost exactly alike, we wouldn't have to deal with that. The one with the better stats would be better.

So wait...the calculation is all the same, even on characters with a higher base offense stat? So the Crit Dmg triangle will likely ALWAYS be better, even for characters like Chewie and Asajj?

"Dryff;c-1974293" wrote:
So wait...the calculation is all the same, even on characters with a higher base offense stat? So the Crit Dmg triangle will likely ALWAYS be better, even for characters like Chewie and Asajj?

Crit damage triangle is always better yes. The value of an offense set changes based on a character's base offense (the higher it is, the better the offense set is) and offense secondaries (the more there are, the lessa valuable the offense set is), and the value of a cd set changes based on how much cd is in comp and your crit chance.

But in no scenario is an offense triangle better than crit damage if you can actually crit. Nihilus lead and true damage being notable exceptions.

"Woodroward;c-1974286" wrote:

"Juzz;c-1974196" wrote:
Let's use the offense maximums for both sets and calculate de critical damage done in your example.

CD set
(1.7733 - 0.15)* 3.555 = 5.7708315
Off set
(1.7733) * 3.255 = 5.7720915

Sorry but I don't see CD set doing 9.21658986175115207373271889401% minus 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% more damage @ 100% CC

1.6233 * 3.255= 5.28384157 gives us what the damage is for no set. A 10% increase in damage would be 5.28384157 * 1.1 = 5.81222565.
If we take the no set number and multiply it by the % increase for each set we get:
5.28384157 * 1.0921658986175775207373281889401= 5.7708315
5.28384157 * 1.084586923794501040079950233321218 = 5.7307854742238067329826771663538

Hey look! They don't match your numbers!

Let's try using your math:

CD set does indeed do 9% more damage compared to no set in that comp and an offense set with max offense secondaries/primaries does indeed do 8% more damage compared to no set. By dividing the offense bonus by the cd bonus you can see the cc breakpoint needed to make the cd set deal more damage than the offense set, which is 91.78% cc by the way. 8.4586923794507040079950233321218/9.21658986175115207373271889401=0.91776812317040138486746003153514

The numbers you produced look like crit damage is doing about .8% more damage than an offense set to me. Which is about right. Like I said, only when cd and offense have very similar stats are they worth comparing. Otherwise the one with better stats is better.

Edit there's an obvious math error here otherwise the % number I produced would match with the numbers it was produced from. Hang on.

I'll hang on, but CD set does less damage than Off set by my calculations. You're looking the fist number as Off set and it is the CD set.

"Juzz;c-1974313" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1974286" wrote:

"Juzz;c-1974196" wrote:
Let's use the offense maximums for both sets and calculate de critical damage done in your example.

CD set
(1.7733 - 0.15)* 3.555 = 5.7708315
Off set
(1.7733) * 3.255 = 5.7720915

Sorry but I don't see CD set doing 9.21658986175115207373271889401% minus 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% more damage @ 100% CC

1.6233 * 3.255= 5.28384157 gives us what the damage is for no set. A 10% increase in damage would be 5.28384157 * 1.1 = 5.81222565.
If we take the no set number and multiply it by the % increase for each set we get:
5.28384157 * 1.0921658986175775207373281889401= 5.7708315
5.28384157 * 1.084586923794501040079950233321218 = 5.7307854742238067329826771663538

Hey look! They don't match your numbers!

Let's try using your math:

CD set does indeed do 9% more damage compared to no set in that comp and an offense set with max offense secondaries/primaries does indeed do 8% more damage compared to no set. By dividing the offense bonus by the cd bonus you can see the cc breakpoint needed to make the cd set deal more damage than the offense set, which is 91.78% cc by the way. 8.4586923794507040079950233321218/9.21658986175115207373271889401=0.91776812317040138486746003153514

The numbers you produced look like crit damage is doing about .8% more damage than an offense set to me. Which is about right. Like I said, only when cd and offense have very similar stats are they worth comparing. Otherwise the one with better stats is better.

Edit there's an obvious math error here otherwise the % number I produced would match with the numbers it was produced from. Hang on.

I'll hang on, but CD set does less damage than Off set by my calculations. You're looking the fist number as Off set and it is the CD set.

"Woodroward;c-1974286" wrote:

"Juzz;c-1974196" wrote:
Let's use the offense maximums for both sets and calculate de critical damage done in your example.

CD set
(1.7733 - 0.15)* 3.555 = 5.7708315
Off set
(1.7733) * 3.255 = 5.7720915

Sorry but I don't see CD set doing 9.21658986175115207373271889401% minus 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% more damage @ 100% CC

Sorry I made some math errors when I produced these calculations while half asleep.

The offense set produces a 8.609923493301474444108537340476% damage increase not a 8.4586923794507040079950233321218% damage increase and the offense before the set bonus is 1.7421757593630197581834267177824 not 1.7733 So is 1.892175... for the offense set.

1.7421757593630197581834267177824 * 3.55 =6.1847239457387201415511648481274 for the cd set
1.8921757593630197581834267177824 * 3.25 =6.1495712179298142140961368327927 for the offense set
1.7421757593630197581834267177824 * 3.25 =5.6620712179298142140961368327927 for no set

We can see that the damage is very close for the crit damage and offense sets (just under a 10% increase) but that the CD set is barely superior. If the sets weren't almost exactly alike, we could tell which is better just by the better secondaries.

Used your formulas to make it easier on you. Those mistakes are what I get for practicing math as I am falling asleep.

"Juzz;c-1974322" wrote:
I used your 1.7733 as truth and did the calcs with those without checking the actual max off% increase that could be got.

Anyway, not going to extend calcs now. I think we got enough of the example and every case should be checked by itself.

Yup, That mistake was my fault.

I agree, if you have a cd set and an offense set that are very similar in stats, the formula would have to be run for every character you put it on to see which is better for that character.

Or if you wanted to farm up specifically for a character, using that formula could tell you which has the higher max damage potential.

In most situations though the formula is unnecessary, the better looking set is the better set.

For most people though the formula is overkill in any situation since the damage output between the 2 is always going to be very close when everything else is equal.

It's only for us stat nerds that it has a place.

it's interesting too in that scenario that the crit damage set is only barely better than the offense set, and it basically comes down to the offense secondaries.

Those are the absolute maximum offense secondaries you can get, so realistically most people will find the offense set better in that scenario regardless of crit chance. Because by absolute maximum I'm talking perfect procs and every proc being maximum.

The biggest impact on the % damage increase for the offense set is starting offense. The bigger it is, the smaller % of offense the flat secondaries will add up to which means 15% of base is a larger slice of the whole as the only % that varies is what the flats add up to.

For fun, I'm going to determine the highest and lowest % an offense set could be. To do so I am going to use the highest and lowest final offense stats I can find on swgoh.gg. So emperor palpatine has 6201 special damage, and Darth Maul has 1142 special damage (not sure if Maul uses special damage, and I don't really care. just going for the biggest and smallest numbers).

Max primaries and secondaries is worth 50.88% and +897. In Rey's case, that +897 translated to close to 25% of base. In Maul's case it is a much larger chunk: 78.546409807355516637478108581436% of base. This makes an offense set worth 171.3 special damage or a 6.538044165270764339728530330113% increase in special damage.

In Palp's case flat offense is a much smaller chunk of the whole: 14.465408805031446540880503144654% of base. This makes an offense set worth 930.15 special damage or a 9.071918058328058814937436097181% increase in special damage.

So now we know the ranges it is possible for an offense set to fall into with the absolute maximum offensive secondaries. 6.5-9%. Of course most people won't have offense secondaries anywhere near that good (if anyone actually even does) so numbers in the realm of 10% damage increase seem a fairly reasonable estimate for a very offense heavy offense set on someone you'd actually want to stack offense on.