"EA_Cade;c-18040373" wrote:
Hey all,
After speaking with the Sims team responsible for these upcoming changes I wanted to reiterate a few things covered previously on pronouns as well as open up a dialogue with you all to address any questions you may have.
- The screenshot shared earlier in this thread was not made by Maxis and does not represent how this feature will appear in game.
Yep, I just made that as a concept of what it could look like based on a comment someone else made about the sims team saying it would appear beside the name in live mode, apologies to all if it wasn't made clear enough that it's not a real screenshot
The Sims Team"Onverser;c-18040392" wrote:"EA_Cade;c-18040373" wrote:
Hey all,
After speaking with the Sims team responsible for these upcoming changes I wanted to reiterate a few things covered previously on pronouns as well as open up a dialogue with you all to address any questions you may have.
- The screenshot shared earlier in this thread was not made by Maxis and does not represent how this feature will appear in game.
Yep, I just made that as a concept of what it could look like based on a comment someone else made about the sims team saying it would appear beside the name in live mode, apologies to all if it wasn't made clear enough that it's not a real screenshot
No worries! I saw a few comments on it and wanted to make sure it was addressed before it spread. :)
"EA_Cade;c-18040373" wrote:
Hey all,
After speaking with the Sims team responsible for these upcoming changes I wanted to reiterate a few things covered previously on pronouns as well as open up a dialogue with you all to address any questions you may have.
- The screenshot shared earlier in this thread was not made by Maxis and does not represent how this feature will appear in game.
- As discussed in the Inside Maxis stream this content is still in the design phase, we are not releasing this in the immediate future.
And finally,
- Players will choose for themselves whether to use the pronoun feature or not (similar to frame choices).
That being said, please feel free to ask me any questions you have on this feature and I'll do my best to answer you. In the event that I don't have an answer to give, I'll pass along your questions to the Sims team on your behalf and get back to you if I'm able to do so.
I love how passionate you all are when it comes to The Sims. It's very clear that representation matters to you and we're doing our absolute best to get this implemented in a way that makes sense, and demonstrates the respect it deserves - while allowing players the choice to use the feature or not.
- Cade
Going through the clickthroughs – this is obviously work in progress. You can still put and randomize your names, but there’s now a new dropdown section which says “Pronouns”. As you can see there are 4 different options. Let’s say Jessie Apple identifies as she/her/hers – as you can see it steps back and pronouns appear right next to her name. This generally would appear in Live Mode where there’s tooltips or any notifications that would refer to Jessie who uses these pronouns.
"Stormkeep;c-18040332" wrote:
@DaWaterRat You forgot the 3rd group who really doesn't care either way, but this still bothers them because they want the focus of the developers to be on adding (and fixing existing) gameplay. I imagine that's a VERY large group.
"LiELF;c-18040371" wrote:"WaytoomanyUIDs;c-18040179" wrote:
I really dont understand why people are getting bent out of shape about the pronouns. This will not affect your existing sims, you will not be forced to choose pronouns for them. They are not removing existing gameplay to add pronouns. And unlike what some have suggested in this thread, choosing pronouns is not somehow gay or straight erasure. Gender and sexuality are toitaly different things.
*Sigh* Okay. Since yet another person has chosen to take a single statement from my entire post out of context, I'm going to try to clarify.
First, I want to say that this statement was meant to be in direct context to the game mechanics, influenced by arguments pulled from real world situations and concerns that I am familiar with. I have bolded segments below from my own post that include that statement for further context:"LiELF;c-18039701" wrote:
Okay. Here's my thing. As I said in another thread, I like that they made the options flexible. People are free to make up whatever they want. But I also do not want any pronouns showing up in live mode with the Sim's name. This is where the game stops being the fictional world of my own choosing ("play your way", right??) and starts to force real world drama into my face. The whole reason I play this game is to create my own world, how I want it, and as far away from reality as I want it. My Sims don't need gender identity because they are fictional beings in a fictional world existing in fictional ways and they don't have social politics. They don't need pronouns, especially in real world languages because they speak Simlish. They don't need inclusion because it's not an issue in the first place in their world. So I would very much appreciate it if we could default to a Sim's sex, the way all of the past games have, and make this pronoun thing optional altogether.
I know it's going to be hard for some people to understand, but I play this game for escapism, amusement, laughter and to weave whatever my creativity demands in the moment. My real life has been hard and I want to leave it behind when I load up the game. I don't play for political ideals or realistic life conquests or Utopias. I play for me. And if the company truly wants to claim inclusivity, how about sticking to the long-time brand idea that every player makes the game what they want it to be? Isn't that the purpose of the Sims 4 campaign when they say things like, "you do you, wherever you want to"? The entire pronoun movement is for a specific group of people. Power to them, they should have it in their games if they want it, I'm not trying to contradict that. But why does it look like it's becoming a core focus that all players are going to have to deal with? Are rotational players who play a bazillion Sims (like me) going to have to go through a bunch of nonsense and select pronouns for every single one just so the game can recognize them? And what happens if we don't? Where does the game default? If it defaults to non-binary because of the language of pronouns, then does that mean the mechanics will never be able to incorporate sexual identities like gay or straight? Because that's a problem. You can't claim to be "inclusive" and not allow for sexual identities too, especially when past games did.
See, this is the main problem that I see people having with the entire pronoun argument. It leads into gay/straight erasure because suddenly people aren't "allowed" to have gender (or rather, sex) preferences or it's considered some kind of phobic. I have a gay friend who plays Sims and straight up wants all of his Sims to be exclusively gay. I have a lesbian friend who is self-described "butch" who is constantly being "pronoun analyzed" in real life because she wears men's clothes, plays male characters in rpgs and renaissance faires and has male alter egos, yet proudly identifies as a woman and wants an exclusively female world. But in seven years our Sims haven't even shown a semblance of sexual identity and even autonomously flirt with random other Sims. We have no way of choosing preferences and the game doesn't seem to even acknowledge our choices. If all Sims become gender neutral by default just so the scripting can accommodate pronouns, does this mean we will never have these choices? I'm sorry, but that's upsetting.
I don't really want to be the one running around and yelling "the sky is falling" because of one sneak peek. Maybe in the end it will all work out. But I do want to make sure that the devs have truly considered what they're doing and how it will affect the game (and players) down the line.
Next, I'm just going to say, without delving too deeply into controversial discussion, that whether anyone believes that gay erasure is a threat or not, it is a legitimate concern for many people in the lgbt+ community and it at least deserves consideration from an objective point of view because no one wants to talk about it for fear of being bullied or finger-pointed or "called out" or threatened by the angry internet mob. It is something that's causing real anxiety for real people. My suggestion to those who doubt is just to keep an open mind and maybe listen to what's being said about it before jumping to conclusions.
Some food for thought:
This entire trans movement is not finished. People, societies, countries, are all still trying to figure it out. When you say "gender", it means something different to every single person. This is why there's so much conflict and argument and debate over what it actually means to be male or female. There are so many difficult questions that people are afraid to ask, that seem to have no concrete answers. Does physical sex matter in private spaces created for specific (traditional) genders? Can a woman be masculine and still be a woman? If not, why do those masculine traits suddenly make her a "man"? Therefore, what makes a "man"? Is it masculinity? Or can a man be feminine? Is it a matter of personal perception or gender dysphoria? If I'm transgender and my perception is different from someone else's, why is that person expected to bend to my perception? Why can't both exist simultaneously and it be acknowledged that we simply disagree due to personal gender experiences in our development throughout life? Why is the acknowledgement of gender dysphoria so forbidden when it causes so much internal pain and should be addressed and discussed for the purpose of healing, like any other mental illness? Doesn't ignoring it contribute to depression and suicide rates? Why isn't anyone talking about the uprising of de-transitioning? Is that not a concern that perhaps there's too much confusion at too young an age and maybe we should slow it down to better understand the nuances of gender identity before so much physical damage is done to the body? Is the trans movement doing more to reinforce gender tropes than destroy them by saying masculine females are male and feminine males are female? Will we ever truly be free of labels and be able to discuss, openly and honestly, our differences, our experiences and perceptions of gender and sex without offending each other? Or should we spend more of our energy in the things that we have in common, the ways we agree, and the circumstances that bring us together? (All philosophical questions that could have many different answers, depending on who you talk to.)
Personal disclosure: I don't like labels. I never have. Whether they are political, social, sexual, religious or everything in between, I have found them to be more damaging to human society than "inclusive". To me, labels put people into boxes, tied up with a neat little bow for others to judge and trope and identify and weaponize and they create psychological limitations in a driving attempt to "fit in" to that label. True freedom is not in labels, but in understanding and accepting yourself (and others) and finding your own truth and existing in it, despite whatever labels you wear or that others give you. It takes courage, it takes resilience, but that's where inner peace is. And when you achieve that, the understanding of others will follow.
Anyway, I don't know if that sheds any more light on where I stand and why, which is usually right in the middle of the maelstroms trying to understand all sides while the fighting goes on and on and I finally jump up and yell, "I will take it! I will take the ring to Mordor! But...I do not know the way."
The Sims Team"Chicklet453681;c-18040403" wrote:
Going through the clickthroughs – this is obviously work in progress. You can still put and randomize your names, but there’s now a new dropdown section which says “Pronouns”. As you can see there are 4 different options. Let’s say Jessie Apple identifies as she/her/hers – as you can see it steps back and pronouns appear right next to her name. This generally would appear in Live Mode where there’s tooltips or any notifications that would refer to Jessie who uses these pronouns.
Was he just referring to the in-game text pop-ups/notifications will reflect the pronoun choice and refer to the sims as the chosen pronoun and that the pronouns will not actually be displayed with the sims's name like the age does?
