Discussion on recent SimGuru statements on Twitter

"OEII1001;c-17639889" wrote:

"fififoofoo2123;c-17639887" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

if someone feels she’s using a condescending tone/sounds unprofessional, that’s their right to feel that way. i don’t see an issue with people who take it as a condescending attitude - just because you say it wasn’t doesn’t make it true.

What was condescending about it?

i think it depends on how people read her tone. as someone said previously it seems like she’s just responding as if she read a handbook on how to talk to customers. the “i see your point, here’s my point” can be taken in a variety of ways - i’m just saying we shouldn’t invalidate opinions bc we don’t see it a certain way! same with you, you don’t see it as condescending and it’s your right to feel that way.

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

https://twitter.com/SimGuruLyndsay/status/1300841632489639936?s=20
Right here in this tweet she promises the community that feedback is being taken into account. Plain as day.

"fififoofoo2123;c-17639897" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639889" wrote:

"fififoofoo2123;c-17639887" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

if someone feels she’s using a condescending tone/sounds unprofessional, that’s their right to feel that way. i don’t see an issue with people who take it as a condescending attitude - just because you say it wasn’t doesn’t make it true.

What was condescending about it?

i think it depends on how people read her tone. as someone said previously it seems like she’s just responding as if she read a handbook on how to talk to customers. the “i see your point, here’s my point” can be taken in a variety of ways - i’m just saying we shouldn’t invalidate opinions bc we don’t see it a certain way! same with you, you don’t see it as condescending and it’s your right to feel that way.

She validated the concern and explained her position, as is practice when discussing an issue. Furthermore, the reply from another poster indicates that this tone was understood.

There comes a point where "it's all just opinion" loses traction. What we actually need to stop doing is putting words into people's mouths, or inserting subtext that isn't there.

"So_Money;c-17639902" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

https://twitter.com/SimGuruLyndsay/status/1300841632489639936?s=20
Right here in this tweet she promises the community that feedback is being taken into account. Plain as day.

"Does not mean that we are ignoring feedback" is not "I promise you the following....".

"OEII1001;c-17639908" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639902" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

https://twitter.com/SimGuruLyndsay/status/1300841632489639936?s=20
Right here in this tweet she promises the community that feedback is being taken into account. Plain as day.

"Does not mean that we are ignoring feedback" is not "I promise you the following....".

so if they’re not ignoring it then what do you think they’re doing with it? either you ignore feedback, or you take it into account...

"OEII1001;c-17639889" wrote:

"fififoofoo2123;c-17639887" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

if someone feels she’s using a condescending tone/sounds unprofessional, that’s their right to feel that way. i don’t see an issue with people who take it as a condescending attitude - just because you say it wasn’t doesn’t make it true.

What was condescending about it?

A professional response:
“I see your point of view! I’m sorry this pack doesn’t interest you but I’m confident other projects in development will!”

A dismissive/ tone-deaf response:
“I see your point of view! I don’t think....”

I don’t call it unprofessional, but I also don’t consider it to be a good response by any means. If you consider that textbook perfect I think you should go get a refresher or check your bias. She had a good rebuttal but that would mean it was a debate, and they don’t want to debate with their fans.

@So_Money Feedback not being ignored (which is what she says) doesn't mean every person giving feedback gets what they want. That's not even possible. Even Toddlers weren't wanted by everybody. One of the very first mods after they were released was a mod for skipping the Toddler lifestage. Everything some Simmers want (which actually included more Star Wars content — though personally, I was only after a couple more costumes for my cosplaying Sims) is unwanted by some other Simmers. There are Simmers who don't want more mundane daily life packs. There are Simmers who don't want more occult packs. There are Simmers who want less humour and Simmers who want more humour. There are Simmers who desperately want story progression and Simmers who desperately don't want story progression. There are Simmers who want quick release after an announcement and Simmers who want longer leadups with more info. There are Simmers who love the friendly, jokey tone when SimGurus use that and Simmers who hate it. No matter how much the team doesn't ignore feedback, they cannot possibly satisfy all Simmers. What's more, their job is not to cater to our wishes. Video games are not bespoke products, and video game makers are not beholden to some kind of gamer democracy. If they want to go a different direction from majority feedback, they get to do that. Doesn't mean we have to like it — I wouldn't have voted for this pack if there'd been a vote — but hey, even if there had been, we've already seen that even when they do hold a vote, they end up with "feedback" that says they obviously faked the results because someone didn't like them.

tldr; Simmers have opposing opinions and desires that can't all be accommodated, and this isn't a democracy.

"drake_mccarty;c-17639919" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639889" wrote:

"fififoofoo2123;c-17639887" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

if someone feels she’s using a condescending tone/sounds unprofessional, that’s their right to feel that way. i don’t see an issue with people who take it as a condescending attitude - just because you say it wasn’t doesn’t make it true.

What was condescending about it?

A professional response:
“I see your point of view! I’m sorry this pack doesn’t interest you but I’m confident other projects in development will!”

A dismissive/ tone-deaf response:
“I see your point of view! I don’t think....”

I don’t call it unprofessional, but I also don’t consider it to be a good response by any means. If you consider that textbook perfect I think you should go get a refresher or check your bias. She had a good rebuttal but that would mean it was a debate, and they don’t want to debate with their fans.

I feel like those responses read exactly the same, but you're right. It's a matter of perception.

"fififoofoo2123;c-17639917" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639908" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639902" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639862" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639853" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639848" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639845" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639829" wrote:

"So_Money;c-17639820" wrote:

"OEII1001;c-17639748" wrote:

"Simpatsyann;c-17639729" wrote:
I thought she was completely professional. She’s the Executive Producer, not a community manager.

I thought that her response was textbook perfect. She stated that she understood their position, and then explained her position. One does not have to agree with her position, but her conduct was neither unprofessional or condescending.

I think that’s what bugs me about it. It’s like they’re reading answers from a How to Deal with Customers 101 textbook. It’s a bog-standard tactic to placate the other side, but under the surface I don’t believe they care about the other side’s feedback.

If they do, you say they're talking down to you. If they don't you say they're unprofessional. It seems like a carnival game where you lose no matter what.

I’d rather they didn’t engage at all. Or at least own their decisions in a way that says, “We’re going to do what we think is best." At least that way they’re not stringing people along for years.

And if they don't engage at all then they're "ignoring the player base". It's set up so that you guys have a grievance no matter what.

You certainly wouldn’t hear me saying that. And they’re already ignoring the player base. They’re just doing it while keeping people sweet with promises and understanding. Meanwhile they do whatever they please. What’s the difference?

They haven't made any promises. They didn't make a promise about toddlers, vampires, weather, etc. In fact, they've been very good about not sending those sorts of messages. But that hasn't stopped you all from inserting subtext into everything. That's where all of this comes from. You can see it right here. The forums are all aflame with people saying that she said things she didn't, that she was being unprofessional when she wasn't, and that her tone was condescending when that wasn't the case. What's more, you're calling it "useful feedback".

This is the sort of thing that I'm referring to when I say that this community has a corrosive effect on the soul. You're not listening, you're reacting, and you're railing against things that weren't said and promises that were never made. And the community thinks that it is righteous for doing so. It's cool if you're not into The Sims 4, but it isn't cool to argue against things that never were. That's not fair.

https://twitter.com/SimGuruLyndsay/status/1300841632489639936?s=20
Right here in this tweet she promises the community that feedback is being taken into account. Plain as day.

"Does not mean that we are ignoring feedback" is not "I promise you the following....".

so if they’re not ignoring it then what do you think they’re doing with it? either you ignore feedback, or you take it into account...

Considering that there are things that the players have wanted that have been included, they do listen. But there isn't, and has never been any promise to that. You don't like this pack, and I'm not really digging it either, but that doesn't make it okay to invent messaging that isn't there. And if doing the right thing doesn't interest you, perhaps the reality that this approach isn't going to be effective will, because it isn't a useful thing to do either from the standpoint of getting what you want in the game.

A lot of people weren't and aren't interested in this pack, and they are interested in other aspects that they'd like to see fleshed out. That's a reasonable thing, and it is an end that is better served without framing words as promises that were never made in the first place, or inserting negative tones that aren't present. That's not to say that the community is going to stop doing it, I know better than that. It is why I'm not going to continue to press the argument. However, these are all things that I think the community should think about, and that needed to be said at this time where they're looking to string up someone for doing things they didn't do.

With that said, I'm off again. Small doses and all that.

I think how they have been unprofessional with the handling of the game (not fixing bugs, shallow packs, excuses instead of facts why things can not be done... yet modders do what they claim is too hard or not achievable) leaves a soar taste in many customers mouth. Then this newest pack is not winning and angered many many customers. It may be seen that she is being condescending to some customers... or she is being condescending. This is not unusual for customers that have been let down, angered, and feel like a product they love is being taken from them for a wannabe product that is called the same thing. There treatment of the customers have not been top notch or even middle notch. Also they are throwing their customers that supported this game for years, under the bus for fast money.

For me, I hold my opinion because I have lost all respect for this team, and I do not want another email. I will say, in a nice manner that what I am reading seems (I said seems) like they are doing damage control like any business would do with this type of backlash.