Forum Discussion
"Erpe;c-16219012" wrote:
"Deshong04;c-16218976" wrote:
"Erpe;c-16218295" wrote:
@Deshong04 We mainly agree. But what I usually have a problem with in all such discussions is:
1. Most simmers stubbornly thinks that EA and Maxis just make the games at random and almost on purpose try to make the games bad. I don’t at all agree with this.
2. In my opinion EA makes the games just to earn money and EA tells Maxis who the target group is, what the budget is and what EA thinks is important to get high sales numbers for as little money as possible. The games aren’t targeted at experienced simmers at all and they are only meant to be played rarely and shortly just like children and young teens usually do. EA focuses on SPs because they are cheap to make and sell best because young simmers more easily can persuade their parents to let them have them.
So no. I don’t have high expectations for TS5 either because TS5 will have the same target group and likely focus even more on SPs than TS4 has done.
1. I think EA just like some other companies know how to work the system to their benefit while taking an advantage of the consumers who choose to buy their product(s) that is not worth the asking price because of its low quality or whatever else ill business practices. But that's the consumers fault for allowing it. And the complaints mean nothing when they still support it because all a company needs is to continue to make a profit and who cares what they want? Just throw them a bone here and there and let them think the company cares. Some of them won't know the difference.
2. Stuff packs are a nice addition because it adds more variety of objects in-game and usually has unique themes as usually is the case also in EP's. The option of having more stuff is not a bad thing. Especially, for those who love to build or interior design but is great for anyone who wants a bigger selection than what the base game and expansion packs offers.
TS4 issues has nothing to do with stuff packs. It has everything to do with labeling a game to intentionally mislead people into thinking that it is a continuous sequel of TS1, TS2 and TS3 that worked so hard to continue that growing, improved and advanced foundation. When in fact, TS4 is more of a reboot that lost its roots as The Sims and in the genre it is supposed to represent as a people/life simulator where a sandbox experience remains adamant in the main PC series.
Stuff packs were introduced in TS2 as a Christmas stuff pack which also had just a little gameplay with Father Christmas. Until then EA hadn’t believed that SPs would sell at all and the first SP was just an experiment. It wasn’t even copy protected like all other expansions because EA thought that it would at most sell a little in the month before Christmas. But to EA’s huge surprise it sold extremely well.
So EA decided to repeat the experiment about Easter and again released a SP as an experiment and without copy protection to see if it would sell at all when it wasn’t even Christmas. It sure did!
So after that SPs were released on a regular basis and from now on always with copy protection!
I never liked the high sales numbers for SPs because I knew that those high sales numbers would mean that EA would focus more on stuff and less on the gameplay that I wanted instead. EA attempted to sell stuff instead through the Sims 3 store. But it only made EA realize that stuff sell better in SPs than it sells when it is sold as single items.
So we see the result for TS4 which was the first big Sims game that mainly concentrate on SPs and to an extent where EA decided to make the EPs smaller and to replace half of the EPs with GPs. Grant’s remarks about the big expansions now out of the way shows that the next EP now is so far out in the future that they don’t even really start working on it yet.
Read his blog on http://hyperbolegames.com/blog/journal-10282017 btw. It shows that the developers play very different games when they only play for fun ;)
"The Sims 2: Holiday Party Pack served as the pilot release for this line of products, which were called "booster packs". After the success of the pilot release, EA named the releases "stuff packs" and launched the line with The Sims 2: Family Fun Stuff. " -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_2#Stuff_packs
Expansion Packs and Stuff Packs have different teams in both TS3 and TS4 from what I read but because I wasn't much around for TS2 after UNI, I don't know much details since I never participated in the forum or looked up development information.
Anyone who has been around for the majority or entirety would know for a fact if TS2 as well had two separate teams for EP's and SP's. If so then to 'think and say' that SP's takes away from the actual gameplay experience itself is an empty concern. Since neither developments should affect the other team in terms of lacking gameplay and/or content.
TS3 Store seems to have been and continues to be quite popular. It's also great for those who doesn't want a whole set and just a single or a few items so they won't get stuck with other items they don't care about and would still have to pay for. Also, the store provides a few opportunities to buy things on sale, etc. Plus, I really love the whole concept of it all except I wish the quality was more top notch which wasn't always fair when it came to the initial asking price. Other than that, if a real Sims sequel was to surface, if done right, I would be for another Sims online store.
About the blog. This stands out to me.
"Typically an expansion is about one year, but Cats & Dogs requires a fundamental overhaul of our engine to allow for quadripedal movement (among other things) and it's a really long haul. I'm a producer, so I can't do much at the super early stages regarding technology and such."
Confirmation that The Sims 4 game engine lacks the ability to support most new or old gameplay mechanics without having to tamper with it? Which would mean it takes more time just to do one EP because of the extreme limitations. And why is that I wonder? Oh, because TS4 started out as The Sims Olympus. The game has been so altered from its original purpose that they were better off continuing the project, release it anyway as a spin-off and then work on the real Sims sequel.
And while pets are probably one of the most difficult gameplay mechanics to get working, why is every single EP in TS4 take so long to release compared to TS3, TS2 and even TS1?
I remember someone on the development team kept mentioning how everything was too difficult, we can't do that, it's would take too much time, even though some features was once doable in previous iterations.
Edit: Just remembered something. I think TS3 had two different EP teams?"Deshong04;c-16219982" wrote:
"Erpe;c-16219012" wrote:
"Deshong04;c-16218976" wrote:
"Erpe;c-16218295" wrote:
@Deshong04 We mainly agree. But what I usually have a problem with in all such discussions is:
1. Most simmers stubbornly thinks that EA and Maxis just make the games at random and almost on purpose try to make the games bad. I don’t at all agree with this.
2. In my opinion EA makes the games just to earn money and EA tells Maxis who the target group is, what the budget is and what EA thinks is important to get high sales numbers for as little money as possible. The games aren’t targeted at experienced simmers at all and they are only meant to be played rarely and shortly just like children and young teens usually do. EA focuses on SPs because they are cheap to make and sell best because young simmers more easily can persuade their parents to let them have them.
So no. I don’t have high expectations for TS5 either because TS5 will have the same target group and likely focus even more on SPs than TS4 has done.
1. I think EA just like some other companies know how to work the system to their benefit while taking an advantage of the consumers who choose to buy their product(s) that is not worth the asking price because of its low quality or whatever else ill business practices. But that's the consumers fault for allowing it. And the complaints mean nothing when they still support it because all a company needs is to continue to make a profit and who cares what they want? Just throw them a bone here and there and let them think the company cares. Some of them won't know the difference.
2. Stuff packs are a nice addition because it adds more variety of objects in-game and usually has unique themes as usually is the case also in EP's. The option of having more stuff is not a bad thing. Especially, for those who love to build or interior design but is great for anyone who wants a bigger selection than what the base game and expansion packs offers.
TS4 issues has nothing to do with stuff packs. It has everything to do with labeling a game to intentionally mislead people into thinking that it is a continuous sequel of TS1, TS2 and TS3 that worked so hard to continue that growing, improved and advanced foundation. When in fact, TS4 is more of a reboot that lost its roots as The Sims and in the genre it is supposed to represent as a people/life simulator where a sandbox experience remains adamant in the main PC series.
Stuff packs were introduced in TS2 as a Christmas stuff pack which also had just a little gameplay with Father Christmas. Until then EA hadn’t believed that SPs would sell at all and the first SP was just an experiment. It wasn’t even copy protected like all other expansions because EA thought that it would at most sell a little in the month before Christmas. But to EA’s huge surprise it sold extremely well.
So EA decided to repeat the experiment about Easter and again released a SP as an experiment and without copy protection to see if it would sell at all when it wasn’t even Christmas. It sure did!
So after that SPs were released on a regular basis and from now on always with copy protection!
I never liked the high sales numbers for SPs because I knew that those high sales numbers would mean that EA would focus more on stuff and less on the gameplay that I wanted instead. EA attempted to sell stuff instead through the Sims 3 store. But it only made EA realize that stuff sell better in SPs than it sells when it is sold as single items.
So we see the result for TS4 which was the first big Sims game that mainly concentrate on SPs and to an extent where EA decided to make the EPs smaller and to replace half of the EPs with GPs. Grant’s remarks about the big expansions now out of the way shows that the next EP now is so far out in the future that they don’t even really start working on it yet.
Read his blog on http://hyperbolegames.com/blog/journal-10282017 btw. It shows that the developers play very different games when they only play for fun ;)
"The Sims 2: Holiday Party Pack served as the pilot release for this line of products, which were called "booster packs". After the success of the pilot release, EA named the releases "stuff packs" and launched the line with The Sims 2: Family Fun Stuff. " -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_2#Stuff_packs
Expansion Packs and Stuff Packs have different teams in both TS3 and TS4 from what I read but because I wasn't much around for TS2 after UNI, I don't know much details since I never participated in the forum or looked up development information.
Anyone who has been around for the majority or entirety would know for a fact if TS2 as well had two separate teams for EP's and SP's. If so then to 'think and say' that SP's takes away from the actual gameplay experience itself is an empty concern. Since neither developments should affect the other team in terms of lacking gameplay and/or content.
TS3 Store seems to have been and continues to be quite popular. It's also great for those who doesn't want a whole set and just a single or a few items so they won't get stuck with other items they don't care about and would still have to pay for. Also, the store provides a few opportunities to buy things on sale, etc. Plus, I really love the whole concept of it all except I wish the quality was more top notch which wasn't always fair when it came to the initial asking price. Other than that, if a real Sims sequel was to surface, if done right, I would be for another Sims online store.
About the blog. This stands out to me.
"Typically an expansion is about one year, but Cats & Dogs requires a fundamental overhaul of our engine to allow for quadripedal movement (among other things) and it's a really long haul. I'm a producer, so I can't do much at the super early stages regarding technology and such."
Confirmation that The Sims 4 game engine lacks the ability to support most new or old gameplay mechanics without having to tamper with it? Which would mean it takes more time just to do one EP because of the extreme limitations. And why is that I wonder? Oh, because TS4 started out as The Sims Olympus. The game has been so altered from its original purpose that they were better off continuing the project, release it anyway as a spin-off and then work on the real Sims sequel.
And while pets are probably one of the most difficult gameplay mechanics to get working, why is every single EP in TS4 take so long to release compared to TS3, TS2 and even TS1?
I remember someone on the development team kept mentioning how everything was too difficult, we can't do that, it's would take too much time, even though some features was once doable in previous iterations.
Edit: Just remembered something. I think TS3 had two different EP teams?
They did. One at Maxis in Redwood City and one in Salt Lake City EA studios. They also had the store team at Salt Lake City Studios.
Personally I think the issue stems from the Smart Technology engine - that is the issue - made for multi-tasking, emotions, walk styles, and communicating between characters. There sounds to me there is little in this game engine that focuses on anything else we need our sims to do - so it is no wonder when we want sims to actually do something besides those things above - it all has to be made from scratch."Deshong04;c-16219982" wrote:
"Erpe;c-16219012" wrote:
"Deshong04;c-16218976" wrote:
"Erpe;c-16218295" wrote:
@Deshong04 We mainly agree. But what I usually have a problem with in all such discussions is:
1. Most simmers stubbornly thinks that EA and Maxis just make the games at random and almost on purpose try to make the games bad. I don’t at all agree with this.
2. In my opinion EA makes the games just to earn money and EA tells Maxis who the target group is, what the budget is and what EA thinks is important to get high sales numbers for as little money as possible. The games aren’t targeted at experienced simmers at all and they are only meant to be played rarely and shortly just like children and young teens usually do. EA focuses on SPs because they are cheap to make and sell best because young simmers more easily can persuade their parents to let them have them.
So no. I don’t have high expectations for TS5 either because TS5 will have the same target group and likely focus even more on SPs than TS4 has done.
1. I think EA just like some other companies know how to work the system to their benefit while taking an advantage of the consumers who choose to buy their product(s) that is not worth the asking price because of its low quality or whatever else ill business practices. But that's the consumers fault for allowing it. And the complaints mean nothing when they still support it because all a company needs is to continue to make a profit and who cares what they want? Just throw them a bone here and there and let them think the company cares. Some of them won't know the difference.
2. Stuff packs are a nice addition because it adds more variety of objects in-game and usually has unique themes as usually is the case also in EP's. The option of having more stuff is not a bad thing. Especially, for those who love to build or interior design but is great for anyone who wants a bigger selection than what the base game and expansion packs offers.
TS4 issues has nothing to do with stuff packs. It has everything to do with labeling a game to intentionally mislead people into thinking that it is a continuous sequel of TS1, TS2 and TS3 that worked so hard to continue that growing, improved and advanced foundation. When in fact, TS4 is more of a reboot that lost its roots as The Sims and in the genre it is supposed to represent as a people/life simulator where a sandbox experience remains adamant in the main PC series.
Stuff packs were introduced in TS2 as a Christmas stuff pack which also had just a little gameplay with Father Christmas. Until then EA hadn’t believed that SPs would sell at all and the first SP was just an experiment. It wasn’t even copy protected like all other expansions because EA thought that it would at most sell a little in the month before Christmas. But to EA’s huge surprise it sold extremely well.
So EA decided to repeat the experiment about Easter and again released a SP as an experiment and without copy protection to see if it would sell at all when it wasn’t even Christmas. It sure did!
So after that SPs were released on a regular basis and from now on always with copy protection!
I never liked the high sales numbers for SPs because I knew that those high sales numbers would mean that EA would focus more on stuff and less on the gameplay that I wanted instead. EA attempted to sell stuff instead through the Sims 3 store. But it only made EA realize that stuff sell better in SPs than it sells when it is sold as single items.
So we see the result for TS4 which was the first big Sims game that mainly concentrate on SPs and to an extent where EA decided to make the EPs smaller and to replace half of the EPs with GPs. Grant’s remarks about the big expansions now out of the way shows that the next EP now is so far out in the future that they don’t even really start working on it yet.
Read his blog on http://hyperbolegames.com/blog/journal-10282017 btw. It shows that the developers play very different games when they only play for fun ;)
"The Sims 2: Holiday Party Pack served as the pilot release for this line of products, which were called "booster packs". After the success of the pilot release, EA named the releases "stuff packs" and launched the line with The Sims 2: Family Fun Stuff. " -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_2#Stuff_packs
Expansion Packs and Stuff Packs have different teams in both TS3 and TS4 from what I read but because I wasn't much around for TS2 after UNI, I don't know much details since I never participated in the forum or looked up development information.
Anyone who has been around for the majority or entirety would know for a fact if TS2 as well had two separate teams for EP's and SP's. If so then to 'think and say' that SP's takes away from the actual gameplay experience itself is an empty concern. Since neither developments should affect the other team in terms of lacking gameplay and/or content.
TS3 Store seems to have been and continues to be quite popular. It's also great for those who doesn't want a whole set and just a single or a few items so they won't get stuck with other items they don't care about and would still have to pay for. Also, the store provides a few opportunities to buy things on sale, etc. Plus, I really love the whole concept of it all except I wish the quality was more top notch which wasn't always fair when it came to the initial asking price. Other than that, if a real Sims sequel was to surface, if done right, I would be for another Sims online store.
About the blog. This stands out to me.
"Typically an expansion is about one year, but Cats & Dogs requires a fundamental overhaul of our engine to allow for quadripedal movement (among other things) and it's a really long haul. I'm a producer, so I can't do much at the super early stages regarding technology and such."
Confirmation that The Sims 4 game engine lacks the ability to support most new or old gameplay mechanics without having to tamper with it? Which would mean it takes more time just to do one EP because of the extreme limitations. And why is that I wonder? Oh, because TS4 started out as The Sims Olympus. The game has been so altered from its original purpose that they were better off continuing the project, release it anyway as a spin-off and then work on the real Sims sequel.
And while pets are probably one of the most difficult gameplay mechanics to get working, why is every single EP in TS4 take so long to release compared to TS3, TS2 and even TS1?
I remember someone on the development team kept mentioning how everything was too difficult, we can't do that, it's would take too much time, even though some features was once doable in previous iterations.
Edit: Just remembered something. I think TS3 had two different EP teams?
Yes Grant is a producer who just is in charge of the production and coordinates things. So in the beginning it sounds correct that he can’t do much because things just are chaos and experiments about inventing a new technology.
Maxis only has two studios left after EA closed both the Maxis studio in Emeryville (who made Spore and Darkspore) and the Maxis studio in Salt Lake City who made 4 EPs for TS3. So now Maxis only has the studio in Redwood (who makes the PC version of TS4) and the studio in Helsinki (who makes SimCity BuildIt, the console version of TS4 and maybe also most of the work on the Sims Mobile).
But to say that this is the reason why TS4 only gets one EP a year is to turn things around because EA didn’t “lose” the studios in Emeryville and Salt Lake. EA deliberately chose to close those studios because EA didn’t want to release 2 EPs a year anymore! The reason must be that EA didn’t think that it would be a profitable strategy anymore. So EA planned to release GPs as half priced “EPs” instead of one of the full priced EPs and apparently the GPs sell better than EPs because EA has now chosen to release twice as many GPs a year compared to the original strategy which EA used in the beginning.
So no! I don’t accept the idea that EPs are more difficult to make for TS4 than they were for TS2 and TS3 ;) That is in no way the reason why EA chose to close the studio in Salt Lake! EA just don’t want to release more yearly expansions than EA does now because then EA would expect sales numbers to go down too much. There is a limit to how much the average simmer will spend on the game each year!
So EA just gives Maxis more time to make each EA or let Maxis use fewer developers on making the EPs - and probably especially in the first months after each release of an EP."Writin_Reg;c-16221495" wrote:
They did. One at Maxis in Redwood City and one in Salt Lake City EA studios. They also had the store team at Salt Lake City Studios.
Personally I think the issue stems from the Smart Technology engine - that is the issue - made for multi-tasking, emotions, walk styles, and communicating between characters. There sounds to me there is little in this game engine that focuses on anything else we need our sims to do - so it is no wonder when we want sims to actually do something besides those things above - it all has to be made from scratch.
Okay, thanks."Erpe;c-16221590" wrote:
Yes Grant is a producer who just is in charge of the production and coordinates things. So in the beginning it sounds correct that he can’t do much because things just are chaos and experiments about inventing a new technology.
Maxis only has two studios left after EA closed both the Maxis studio in Emeryville (who made Spore and Darkspore) and the Maxis studio in Salt Lake City who made 4 EPs for TS3. So now Maxis only has the studio in Redwood (who makes the PC version of TS4) and the studio in Helsinki (who makes SimCity BuildIt, the console version of TS4 and maybe also most of the work on the Sims Mobile).
But to say that this is the reason why TS4 only gets one EP a year is to turn things around because EA didn’t “lose” the studios in Emeryville and Salt Lake. EA deliberately chose to close those studios because EA didn’t want to release 2 EPs a year anymore! The reason must be that EA didn’t think that it would be a profitable strategy anymore. So EA planned to release GPs as half priced “EPs” instead of one of the full priced EPs and apparently the GPs sell better than EPs because EA has now chosen to release twice as many GPs a year compared to the original strategy which EA used in the beginning.
So no! I don’t accept the idea that EPs are more difficult to make for TS4 than they were for TS2 and TS3 ;) That is in no way the reason why EA chose to close the studio in Salt Lake! EA just don’t want to release more yearly expansions than EA does now because then EA would expect sales numbers to go down too much. There is a limit to how much the average simmer will spend on the game each year!
So EA just gives Maxis more time to make each EA or let Maxis use fewer developers on making the EPs - and probably especially in the first months after each release of an EP.
I said the reason why I think TS4 is getting one EP a year is because of the limiting game engine. If every time they want to add something major, the case seems to be they have to first rewrite some things in order for it to be possible then incorporate the EP. But the game engine should already be what the game needs. When it comes to technology, TS4 already started out with something incapable of real innovation and was never meant to be a life simulator in the first place.
You can believe whatever you want and I'm going to come to my own conclusions."Deshong04;c-16222051" wrote:
"Writin_Reg;c-16221495" wrote:
They did. One at Maxis in Redwood City and one in Salt Lake City EA studios. They also had the store team at Salt Lake City Studios.
Personally I think the issue stems from the Smart Technology engine - that is the issue - made for multi-tasking, emotions, walk styles, and communicating between characters. There sounds to me there is little in this game engine that focuses on anything else we need our sims to do - so it is no wonder when we want sims to actually do something besides those things above - it all has to be made from scratch.
Okay, thanks."Erpe;c-16221590" wrote:
Yes Grant is a producer who just is in charge of the production and coordinates things. So in the beginning it sounds correct that he can’t do much because things just are chaos and experiments about inventing a new technology.
Maxis only has two studios left after EA closed both the Maxis studio in Emeryville (who made Spore and Darkspore) and the Maxis studio in Salt Lake City who made 4 EPs for TS3. So now Maxis only has the studio in Redwood (who makes the PC version of TS4) and the studio in Helsinki (who makes SimCity BuildIt, the console version of TS4 and maybe also most of the work on the Sims Mobile).
But to say that this is the reason why TS4 only gets one EP a year is to turn things around because EA didn’t “lose” the studios in Emeryville and Salt Lake. EA deliberately chose to close those studios because EA didn’t want to release 2 EPs a year anymore! The reason must be that EA didn’t think that it would be a profitable strategy anymore. So EA planned to release GPs as half priced “EPs” instead of one of the full priced EPs and apparently the GPs sell better than EPs because EA has now chosen to release twice as many GPs a year compared to the original strategy which EA used in the beginning.
So no! I don’t accept the idea that EPs are more difficult to make for TS4 than they were for TS2 and TS3 ;) That is in no way the reason why EA chose to close the studio in Salt Lake! EA just don’t want to release more yearly expansions than EA does now because then EA would expect sales numbers to go down too much. There is a limit to how much the average simmer will spend on the game each year!
So EA just gives Maxis more time to make each EA or let Maxis use fewer developers on making the EPs - and probably especially in the first months after each release of an EP.
I said the reason why I think TS4 is getting one EP a year is because of the limiting game engine. If every time they want to add something major, the case seems to be they have to first rewrite some things in order for it to be possible then incorporate the EP. But the game engine should already be what the game needs. When it comes to technology, TS4 already started out with something incapable of real innovation and was never meant to be a life simulator in the first place.
You can believe whatever you want and I'm going to come to my own conclusions.
Deshong her some reading for you - here is an article popular Mechanics mag did on the Sims 4 engine - as you can see it is as I described.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/gaming/a10698/inside-the-mind-of-the-sims-4-16906802/
And in comparison - here is what was involved in the making of the Sims 2 and it's engine. And why we feel they went in a totally wrong direction for the Sims 4. This design was pretty much the same for Sims 3, just more enhanced as they used an enhanced version of the same engine Sims 2 had. Sims 4 they went off the beaten path totally with the brand new smart technology engine.
http://aigamedev.com/open/highlights/the-sims-ai/"Deshong04;c-16222051" wrote:
"Writin_Reg;c-16221495" wrote:
They did. One at Maxis in Redwood City and one in Salt Lake City EA studios. They also had the store team at Salt Lake City Studios.
Personally I think the issue stems from the Smart Technology engine - that is the issue - made for multi-tasking, emotions, walk styles, and communicating between characters. There sounds to me there is little in this game engine that focuses on anything else we need our sims to do - so it is no wonder when we want sims to actually do something besides those things above - it all has to be made from scratch.
Okay, thanks."Erpe;c-16221590" wrote:
Yes Grant is a producer who just is in charge of the production and coordinates things. So in the beginning it sounds correct that he can’t do much because things just are chaos and experiments about inventing a new technology.
Maxis only has two studios left after EA closed both the Maxis studio in Emeryville (who made Spore and Darkspore) and the Maxis studio in Salt Lake City who made 4 EPs for TS3. So now Maxis only has the studio in Redwood (who makes the PC version of TS4) and the studio in Helsinki (who makes SimCity BuildIt, the console version of TS4 and maybe also most of the work on the Sims Mobile).
But to say that this is the reason why TS4 only gets one EP a year is to turn things around because EA didn’t “lose” the studios in Emeryville and Salt Lake. EA deliberately chose to close those studios because EA didn’t want to release 2 EPs a year anymore! The reason must be that EA didn’t think that it would be a profitable strategy anymore. So EA planned to release GPs as half priced “EPs” instead of one of the full priced EPs and apparently the GPs sell better than EPs because EA has now chosen to release twice as many GPs a year compared to the original strategy which EA used in the beginning.
So no! I don’t accept the idea that EPs are more difficult to make for TS4 than they were for TS2 and TS3 ;) That is in no way the reason why EA chose to close the studio in Salt Lake! EA just don’t want to release more yearly expansions than EA does now because then EA would expect sales numbers to go down too much. There is a limit to how much the average simmer will spend on the game each year!
So EA just gives Maxis more time to make each EA or let Maxis use fewer developers on making the EPs - and probably especially in the first months after each release of an EP.
I said the reason why I think TS4 is getting one EP a year is because of the limiting game engine. If every time they want to add something major, the case seems to be they have to first rewrite some things in order for it to be possible then incorporate the EP. But the game engine should already be what the game needs. When it comes to technology, TS4 already started out with something incapable of real innovation and was never meant to be a life simulator in the first place.
You can believe whatever you want and I'm going to come to my own conclusions.
Of course you are! But you are constructing “explanations” and ignoring the way a company like EA works.
EA don’t have a fixed number of developers working on the games. There are fewer developers working on TS4 than there were on TS3 and not because EA was unlucky to lose the studio in Salt Lake City which made 2 EPs per year for TS3 in both 2012 and 2013. EA didn’t “lose” that studio but deliberately moved it to less important games and then closed it down for good because couldn’t find something better for the studio to do!
So from the beginning EA planned to release fewer EPs for TS4 than EA had released for TS3. Why?
To answer that question we have to consider why a company like EA decides how many expansions to release for all EA’s games. Why have the Sims games always gotten more expansions than other games? And why haven’t EA released even twice as many expansions for each Sims game?
It wasn’t because EA didn’t have enough developers because EA closed both the Maxis studio in Emeryville and the Maxis studio in Salt Lake City. So why didn’t EA keep those Maxis studios and let them develop even more expansion for the Sims games?
To understand this we have to accept that it is about money. If EA releases too many expansions each year then the average simmer won’t buy them all. So when EA chose not to release even more it was because there already were signs that indicated that sales numbers would go down too much and that the average simmer wouldn’t buy even more.
So try to compare money instead of just comparing the number of big EPs: How much will it cost the average simmer each year to buy all SPs, all GPs and all EPs for TS4? Compare that amount to what it would cost such a simmer to buy the all SPs and EPs each year for TS3. Even considering the extra amounts a few simmers used in the Sims 3 Store I think it will be about the same.
So my point still is that the GPs isn’t something extra that EA wanted to release for TS4. The GPs were instead meant as replacements for half of the EPs already from the beginning! ;)
And the extra SPs were of course meant as a replacement for the Sims 3 Store."Writin_Reg;c-16222093" wrote:
Deshong her some reading for you - here is an article popular Mechanics mag did on the Sims 4 engine - as you can see it is as I described.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/gaming/a10698/inside-the-mind-of-the-sims-4-16906802/
And in comparison - here is what was involved in the making of the Sims 2 and it's engine. And why we feel they went in a totally wrong direction for the Sims 4. This design was pretty much the same for Sims 3, just more enhanced as they used an enhanced version of the same engine Sims 2 had. Sims 4 they went off the beaten path totally with the brand new smart technology engine.
http://aigamedev.com/open/highlights/the-sims-ai/
Can't read the first link as I'm not willing to allow intrusive ads.
Personally, unless there is factual evidence of a developer saying TS3 is the same exact game engine as TS2 but improved, I don't believe that. I do think all TS games use some of the same methods and concepts that proved useful but in order to implement next level features in terms of innovation, it would seem a new game engine is the solution. Rather than using an out-dated game engine as a base for the next installment.
And yeah, like I already said, TS4 was never meant to be a life simulator in the first place. The so-called smart technology engine was repurposed into something it wasn't meant to be. (To save face, they obviously needed a good sale pitch. Though anyone who is a critical thinker already saw through this.) I watched a little of a Let's Play of TS4 yesterday and the whole time I kept getting vibes of a mobile game. From the way the game looks overall, to how overly light-hearted the gameplay compared to its predecessors, to bringing back mini-games/objectives for parties, etc.
While some like being told what to do for whatever reason in a sandbox experience, I am one who can come up with my own play style and my own goals...I don't need my hand held and I don't want to be told to play in a static manner because there is no room for creativity, imagination or freedom. So much for, you are in control...yeah no, not true. And you can't even design the way you want without downloading a bunch of recolors/patterns...like in TS2 unlike TS3.Spoiler
Any color(s)/pattern(s) I want. Even my own eye and hair colors.
https://s25.postimg.org/wcqnkkqgf/Black_Cherry.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/n4yf401fj/Marine_Ultra.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/owrdyuncf/Screenshot-163.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/tini783qn/Screenshot-613.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/qd2wgnaq7/Screenshot-3459.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/gfrvnlau7/Screenshot-156.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/65pgodv9b/Screenshot-84.jpgSpoiler
And yes, some complained about World Adventures being a RP experience but I think they did an awesome job. It was new gameplay, it all made sense within context, it's fun and best of all it added a lot for those who didn't care about adventures. Photography, nectar-making, new harvestables, tents, incense, martial arts, buy and build mode content, new registers, etc. Plenty to focus on as a sandbox game. The balance of it all is well done.
My Sims had plenty of fun enjoying Egypt without going on adventures at all.
https://s25.postimg.org/48o55xpgf/Screenshot-58.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/60h40ugj3/Screenshot-6_2.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/mo8m3cj0f/Screenshot-12_2.jpg
And one of my couples went on a honeymoon in Champs Les Sims, France.
https://s25.postimg.org/eiqk5axdb/Screenshot-2072_2.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/5aybom5qn/Screenshot-2092_2.jpg"Erpe;c-16222352" wrote:
Of course you are! But you are constructing “explanations” and ignoring the way a company like EA works.
EA don’t have a fixed number of developers working on the games. There are fewer developers working on TS4 than there were on TS3 and not because EA was unlucky to lose the studio in Salt Lake City which made 2 EPs per year for TS3 in both 2012 and 2013. EA didn’t “lose” that studio but deliberately moved it to less important games and then closed it down for good because couldn’t find something better for the studio to do!
Duh...TS4 has less resources than TS3. All I asked was didn't TS3 have two different EP teams yet you go on putting words in my mouth I never even said. You just been assuming what I said and what I mean than what I'm actually saying.
I'm not sure if TS2 or TS1 had two EP teams but if not they still had for the most part two EP's a year. If TS3 was the only Sims game in the series to have two teams, then I personally take that to mean because it needed a longer development because of what the game engine/base game introduced.
TS4 started out as TSOlympus so yeah duh it's resources are on a much smaller scale than the previous game.
So from the beginning EA planned to release fewer EPs for TS4 than EA had released for TS3. Why?
To answer that question we have to consider why a company like EA decides how many expansions to release for all EA’s games. Why have the Sims games always gotten more expansions than other games? And why haven’t EA released even twice as many expansions for each Sims game?
It wasn’t because EA didn’t have enough developers because EA closed both the Maxis studio in Emeryville and the Maxis studio in Salt Lake City. So why didn’t EA keep those Maxis studios and let them develop even more expansion for the Sims games?
To understand this we have to accept that it is about money. If EA releases too many expansions each year then the average simmer won’t buy them all. So when EA chose not to release even more it was because there already were signs that indicated that sales numbers would go down too much and that the average simmer wouldn’t buy even more.
Right, because two EP's a year is too much? I don't think the majority, if anyone, is or would be asking for more. It's always been 2 since 2000 so if that's too much to ask for then that's telling, don't you think? You sure I'm the one constructing explanations and ignoring how EA works?
So try to compare money instead of just comparing the number of big EPs: How much will it cost the average simmer each year to buy all SPs, all GPs and all EPs for TS4? Compare that amount to what it would cost such a simmer to buy the all SPs and EPs each year for TS3. Even considering the extra amounts a few simmers used in the Sims 3 Store I think it will be about the same.
TS4 isn't over yet so get back to this later and then calculate it all.
So my point still is that the GPs isn’t something extra that EA wanted to release for TS4. The GPs were instead meant as replacements for half of the EPs already from the beginning! ;)
Oh and if ever so true that's so grand isn't it to split gameplay in bits and pieces than just have 1 full and complete EP. Have fun completing that.
https://s25.postimg.org/wbwb2zgrj/2857824302_40730c7e25.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/775apkhb3/Game-Incomplete-300x169.png
And the extra SPs were of course meant as a replacement for the Sims 3 Store.
Really?
Well, if that's the case TS3 store is way better since it also included free items, free sets, limited edition items and it introduced premium content which added gameplay besides more variety in CAS content along with buy and build mode items. Plus, I loved all the cool free promotional content too such as Dr. Pepper, T-Mobile, etc.Spoiler
https://s25.postimg.org/nuf425py7/Screenshot-376.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/m07s0wq73/Screenshot-5093.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/f9nvp221r/Screenshot-1194.jpg
https://s25.postimg.org/kht5j37vj/Screenshot-307_(4).jpg- @Deshong04 You are too difficult to quote because I even have to read your whole message just to find out what you wrote and what I wrote. So I will try in my own way:
Duh...TS4 has less resources than TS3. All I asked was didn't TS3 have two different EP teams yet you go on putting words in my mouth I never even said. You just been assuming what I said and what I mean than what I'm actually saying.
I'm not sure if TS2 or TS1 had two EP teams but if not they still had for the most part two EP's a year. If TS3 was the only Sims game in the series to have two teams, then I personally take that to mean because it needed a longer development because of what the game engine/base game introduced.
TS4 started out as TSOlympus so yeah duh it's resources are on a much smaller scale than the previous game.
Again you are guessing and assuming. Yes TS4 started as project Olympus which we only know because a certain developer left EA and then thought that he could leak confidential inside information. But the previous big Sims games started out as projects too. We just don’t know their code names because nobody leaked them.
How many developers worked on TS3 during the development of the basegame? We don’t know. But we know that other teams released EPs for TS2 at the same time. There were also in those days teams who made the Sims Story Line games and console games. So EA had always several teams working at the same time. Nothing new there.
During the development of the TS4 basegame EA had the studio in Salt Lake City making 2 EPs for TS3 both in 2012 and in 2013 such that more developers could work on the Sims 4 basegame. This doesn’t indicate that EA had fewer developers working on it than EA had on the previous basegame. But it took likely more time to find a new focus for TS4 to make it different from all the previous games. So they experimented and ended up with more focus on autonomous behavior on the cost of the size of the world and more focus on happiness and partying with less focus on raising a family (which again brought them to simplify babies, omit toddlers and simplify teens too).
But after the release of the TS4 basegame things changed because the Salt Lake City team then was removed from the Sims games because EA didn’t want so many big EPs released for TS4. Instead EA wanted to reduce costs by focusing much more on GPs and especially SPs which are much easier and cheaper for EA to make. I haven’t calculated the exact amount though. But if I did I would likely end up with the result that if people buy all released expansions every year then they will end up using just as much money every year on TS4 as they did on TS3. So the difference mainly is that EA releases the same value in money for TS4 as EA did for TS3 each year - but for much lower expenses because the new types of expansions require much less work then all the huge earlier EPs did.
What most simmers don’t seem to understand is that the developers don’t just know in advance how to make the next big game. If they just started making it then they likely would just make the previous game again (or something that would be extremely similar to it). But then most customers would say: ”Why should I buy the same game again just to see some very small adjustments! This would be way too expensive! So I will just continue playing the game that I already have!”
So the developers has to consider first how to make a completely different type of Sims game. They can’t just start making the game. So they likely come up with different ideas which they then have to test in different projects. Grant just told us that because he is a producer (who mainly just has to coordinate things) there isn’t much for him to do in this early stage and I think that it is because there isn’t anything to coordinate when people working on different projects just test different ideas. Only later when they have to choose which ideas to actually use the producers can start doing their real work. - "The big suggestions are out of the way"
I get that Pets and Toddlers were the biggest suggestions, but there is still Seasons and University along with tropical vacation.
Those are big suggestions as well.
"The Scary Stuff ist out"
What about Werewolves? And Witches? Aren't we getting any more occults?
*Fights the tears*
"We want them to be like "Wow! I can't believe you're making all this amazing stuff!", "Now we can do the fun stuff"
How the plum do you think you can convince me that whatever you have in your head is better than witches and seasons!?
"Look at what we gave away for free! And there will be more free stuff"
Now you want a medal for including Toddlers in the base game like they were in Sims 2 and Sims 3?
If I'm not getting my witches in Sims 4, I'm done with your company and I will never buy any EA title again.
I'll stick to Sims 4 as long as there is still hope that I can have a Witch that rides her pet dragon through the snow. "Erpe;c-16225340" wrote:
@Deshong04 You are too difficult to quote because I even have to read your whole message just to find out what you wrote and what I wrote. So I will try in my own way:Duh...TS4 has less resources than TS3. All I asked was didn't TS3 have two different EP teams yet you go on putting words in my mouth I never even said. You just been assuming what I said and what I mean than what I'm actually saying.
I'm not sure if TS2 or TS1 had two EP teams but if not they still had for the most part two EP's a year. If TS3 was the only Sims game in the series to have two teams, then I personally take that to mean because it needed a longer development because of what the game engine/base game introduced.
TS4 started out as TSOlympus so yeah duh it's resources are on a much smaller scale than the previous game.
Again you are guessing and assuming. Yes TS4 started as project Olympus which we only know because a certain developer left EA and then thought that he could leak confidential inside information. But the previous big Sims games started out as projects too. We just don’t know their code names because nobody leaked them.
How many developers worked on TS3 during the development of the basegame? We don’t know. But we know that other teams released EPs for TS2 at the same time. There were also in those days teams who made the Sims Story Line games and console games. So EA had always several teams working at the same time. Nothing new there.
During the development of the TS4 basegame EA had the studio in Salt Lake City making 2 EPs for TS3 both in 2012 and in 2013 such that more developers could work on the Sims 4 basegame. This doesn’t indicate that EA had fewer developers working on it than EA had on the previous basegame. But it took likely more time to find a new focus for TS4 to make it different from all the previous games. So they experimented and ended up with more focus on autonomous behavior on the cost of the size of the world and more focus on happiness and partying with less focus on raising a family (which again brought them to simplify babies, omit toddlers and simplify teens too).
But after the release of the TS4 basegame things changed because the Salt Lake City team then was removed from the Sims games because EA didn’t want so many big EPs released for TS4. Instead EA wanted to reduce costs by focusing much more on GPs and especially SPs which are much easier and cheaper for EA to make. I haven’t calculated the exact amount though. But if I did I would likely end up with the result that if people buy all released expansions every year then they will end up using just as much money every year on TS4 as they did on TS3. So the difference mainly is that EA releases the same value in money for TS4 as EA did for TS3 each year - but for much lower expenses because the new types of expansions require much less work then all the huge earlier EPs did.
What most simmers don’t seem to understand is that the developers don’t just know in advance how to make the next big game. If they just started making it then they likely would just make the previous game again (or something that would be extremely similar to it). But then most customers would say: ”Why should I buy the same game again just to see some very small adjustments! This would be way too expensive! So I will just continue playing the game that I already have!”
So the developers has to consider first how to make a completely different type of Sims game. They can’t just start making the game. So they likely come up with different ideas which they then have to test in different projects. Grant just told us that because he is a producer (who mainly just has to coordinate things) there isn’t much for him to do in this early stage and I think that it is because there isn’t anything to coordinate when people working on different projects just test different ideas. Only later when they have to choose which ideas to actually use the producers can start doing their real work.
I just want to comment on one thing. We know exactly who and how many worked on TS1, TS2, and TS3, because every name, even those who only did one texture for an object and nothing else (as an intern) were always listed in the credits. You don't have to guess. Read the credits. Maxis used to list anyone and everyone who was even in the room at the time, including all internships, so, it's not a guessing game. It's TS4 that doesn't list it's credits or allow the customers to know who did what and who was over what project and who might have just done one texture and nothing else. TS4 is the guessing game if it even has interneships, or how many people (including markerters) were involved. TS3's team and TS2's teams were huge, huge teams. We know from Rachel TS4's base had one hundred people working on it that includes orchestras, and other things people don't think about, etc.
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