Retroactive Orientation Updates For Premade Queer Couples

"EneroDesyembre;c-18315915" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-18315764" wrote:

So here’s my question: Do you think it’s fair for all premades to get an orientation update or should this retroactive update only apply to same sex attracted couples?

Why do you keep asking this? Are you doing it to open the possibility of including asexual or aromantic premades, or are you just asking this to preserve the feelings of heterosexual players and people who are literally catered to on every square inch of this game, all media, and the world itself? Are the emotions of people who never have had to fight for their right to love and be seen more important than people who are still emerging in a world that is actively hostile towards them? Will retroactively including strictly heterosexual sims give the people who never had to worry about their lives and relationships being threatened by groups of people actively sabotaging their identity and cultures be "inclusive" for you?

Are the lives and mere existence of cisgender people being heterosexual threatened in the real world, in a way that even remotely justifies wanting them to be included within something like what I am suggesting? What is it that really drives you to want "heterosexual representation" within queer representation, really, other than to plausibly pretend that heterosexual people have never been included in anything because they weren't available in one game franchise of millions that dared to not have heterosexual people as the default? Is the world you live in so devoid of any empowering strictly heterosexual figures that you have to resort to fiction in order to even feel like a real person?

I am asking for queer inclusion, if that comes at the cost of the fragile minds and feelings of people that are both afraid that their heterosexual sims might not be or those that are subconsciously afraid of having undeniably queer characters because of their unconscious biases then so be it.

The goal of my suggestion wasn't to pretend heterosexual simmers and sims aren't real, the goal was to make sure they can't pretend their actions are merely neutral ones that suggest nothing of their own ideas and actions. You can still let the heckings flirt and fall in love with women, but not in a way that will be possible unless you make the conscious decision to make it something plausible for them to do. Nothing will stop you, nothing will control you, other than your own guilt for intentionally doing so if you yourself are not gay, bi or pan and know full well what enabling it will imply.

I appreciate what you’re saying. There’s this famous quote and I’m not even sure who the original author is, but it goes something like this:

”Never pass judgment or put anger on someone too harshly and too quickly, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about.” ~ And then something something about being kind.

I’m looking at this potential retroactive update purely from an objective point of view. I’m not biased, there’s no emotion attached to this, I’m only thinking in terms of user experience and what would make sense in order to satisfy as many players as possible with the tools that are currently available. Game devs would have to consider every option. Making the right choice is incredibly challenging given how diverse the simming community is. I think that having discussions like these is healthy and could be helpful moving forward.

That said, I personally do not believe it is reasonable to ask for a “LGTB +” household update and not consider so called “heterosexual” households purely out of spite; “The heterosexual player base never suffered the way the LGTB+ player base has suffered, therefore they do not deserve this potential update as much as I do.”

That kind of generalization and spiteful attitude towards a certain group of people is what causes conflict in an already divided community. It’s rather unnecessary. ( see famous quote above).

Why can’t all households get fair treatment regardless of their sexual orientation? We’re all people. We all play this game for our entertainment. We all paid for it. If the reason not to do this is due to technical limitations, or something other than the “straight arrows already have everything” - rhetoric, well, that’s fair enough. I rest my case.

"EneroDesyembre;c-18315916" wrote:

"Horrorgirl6;c-18315812" wrote:

"EneroDesyembre;c-18315669" wrote:

"friendlysimmers;c-18315527" wrote:
if i read this post correctly i respect the original poster in the subject but speaking as a gamer and player of the sims it also depends on what kind of story the player wants to create and when it comes to the sims4 as players we are all diffrent

Which is exactly why I personally want changes like this. What might be a harmless and fun interaction to a straight or bi player can be pretty damaging and actively exclusionary to somebody who isn't attracted to the opposite sex.


Especially the ones made to include people like you.

I am sorry but this sounds to me , you are trying to control or persuade what people do in their games. I understand if you don't like how some people are playing it still games.Just ignore it , the people who play it in a way that makes you upset. The sims were about playing our stories or play the characters in are way. I am not against EA making update . The goal of the game was never about making players to play a certain way .It was giving players a sandbox and stories that they started

Can you give examples as to how something like this will negatively impact the freedom of simmers? Can anybody even?

I never said negatively impact it.What I am saying it seemed the reason you wanted this.Was because you did not like people break them up,and trying to pursue to not break them up.Which would be better if you ignore the players that do.

I have no problem premades get sexualityupdate.I think it should be everyone and not just lgbt npcs.With also update premades likes and dislikes.

This conversation is now closed.

@EneroDesyembre thank you for starting this thread and sharing your point of view in regards to the legacy Sims, I've passed that feedback on to the team.

"friendlysimmers;c-18315527" wrote:
if i read this post correctly i respect the original poster in the subject but speaking as a gamer and player of the sims it also depends on what kind of story the player wants to create and when it comes to the sims4 as players we are all diffrent

Which is exactly why I personally want changes like this. What might be a harmless and fun interaction to a straight or bi player can be pretty damaging and actively exclusionary to somebody who isn't attracted to the opposite sex.

If the only prominent pre-existing non opposite sex couples are ones that are by default palatable to someone of the opposite sex, then is it really representation or is it just a compromise? Before the orientation update dropped, the heckings were essentially as gay as premade sims could be. I just wish we'd actually have that followed up on after the tools to create explicitly gay, lesbian or aromantic and asexual sims dropped. It is one thing to create your own sims that represent you, it is another to have the game unquestioningly reflect people like you without your input as well.
Especially the ones made to include people like you.

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-18315764" wrote:

"EneroDesyembre;c-18315669" wrote:

"friendlysimmers;c-18315527" wrote:
if i read this post correctly i respect the original poster in the subject but speaking as a gamer and player of the sims it also depends on what kind of story the player wants to create and when it comes to the sims4 as players we are all diffrent

Which is exactly why I personally want changes like this. What might be a harmless and fun interaction to a straight or bi player can be pretty damaging and actively exclusionary to somebody who isn't attracted to the opposite sex.

If the only prominent pre-existing non opposite sex couples are ones that are by default palatable to someone of the opposite sex, then is it really representation or is it just a compromise? Before the orientation update dropped, the heckings were essentially as gay as premade sims could be. I just wish we'd actually have that followed up on after the tools to create explicitly gay, lesbian or aromantic and asexual sims dropped. It is one thing to create your own sims that represent you, it is another to have the game unquestioningly reflect people like you without your input as well.
Especially the ones made to include people like you.

I’m not out to offend anyone here but I’m very confused about all of this.
I often end up in threads such as these because I’m trying to understand people’s reasoning. What is it that I’m not getting.

I do think it’s fair to ask for a sexual orientation update for premades. It don’t feel that it is necessary, but there’s nothing wrong with it. It would make sense. In my opinion however, it should be all or nothing. Update ALL premades or update none. That’s fair. They can’t all be bi except for the two or three same sex attracted couples.

You mentioned that gay sims flirting with a sim of the opposite sex could be damaging to players that aren’t attracted to the opposite sex. Maybe. But what about the straight simmers? Heterosexual simmers never got proper representation either. Before this sexual orientation patch my “straight” sims just flirted with anything that moved. Did it damage me, personally? It could have. It didn’t. If the Heckings get a sexual orientation update (which is fair) but say, Don Lothario and Bella Goth do not, even though they’re most likely straight, what does that say about “inclusiveness” and “representation”? Focusing exclusively on a certain group will only divide this rather diverse community.

You also mentioned that you think it’s fun to break up marriages in your game. I assume that you mean heterosexual or bi couples? Not that it matters. What if this offends me? What if I’m going through a terrible break up right now and I happened to read how you play your game, and it feels cruel and I find it hard to believe that anyone could play that way? Why would simmers deliberately break up a perfect marriage? What kind of message are you trying to convey here? What’s wrong with the world?

But, being the kinda guy I am, I don’t think that way, because I couldn’t care less how other people play their game. The Sims, of all games. Doesn’t mean I have no feelings.
I just hope everyone’s having a blast! ?

So here’s my question: Do you think it’s fair for all premades to get an orientation update or should this retroactive update only apply to same sex attracted couples?

Also to be fair here .I don't think Sims randomly flirt with others .Unless you force it , so the heckings shouldn't be naturuely flirting with others in the first place .Unless the player wants too . It comes down what it comes to play in your game . I agree if the Sims team does that .There going to have update of everyone's sexuality .

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-18315764" wrote:

So here’s my question: Do you think it’s fair for all premades to get an orientation update or should this retroactive update only apply to same sex attracted couples?

Why do you keep asking this? Are you doing it to open the possibility of including asexual or aromantic premades, or are you just asking this to preserve the feelings of heterosexual players and people who are literally catered to on every square inch of this game, all media, and the world itself? Are the emotions of people who never have had to fight for their right to love and be seen more important than people who are still emerging in a world that is actively hostile towards them? Will retroactively including strictly heterosexual sims give the people who never had to worry about their lives and relationships being threatened by groups of people actively sabotaging their identity and cultures be "inclusive" for you?

Are the lives and mere existence of cisgender people being heterosexual threatened in the real world, in a way that even remotely justifies wanting them to be included within something like what I am suggesting? What is it that really drives you to want "heterosexual representation" within queer representation, really, other than to plausibly pretend that heterosexual people have never been included in anything because they weren't available in one game franchise of millions that dared to not have heterosexual people as the default? Is the world you live in so devoid of any empowering strictly heterosexual figures that you have to resort to fiction in order to even feel like a real person?

I am asking for queer inclusion, if that comes at the cost of the fragile minds and feelings of people that are both afraid that their heterosexual sims might not be or those that are subconsciously afraid of having undeniably queer characters because of their unconscious biases then so be it.

The goal of my suggestion wasn't to pretend heterosexual simmers and sims aren't real, the goal was to make sure they can't pretend their actions are merely neutral ones that suggest nothing of their own ideas and actions. You can still let the heckings flirt and fall in love with women, but not in a way that will be possible unless you make the conscious decision to make it something plausible for them to do. Nothing will stop you, nothing will control you, other than your own guilt for intentionally doing so if you yourself are not gay, bi or pan and know full well what enabling it will imply.