Re: Lag in Sims 4 increasing over time

Thanks @puzzlezaddict 

I was surprised to see a CyberLink error, too! I don't even have a dvd drive on this machine. It doesn't run any background tasks,  but I've uninstalled it anyway.

So I've done as you suggested and started a new game, where I've brought in my current legacy family. I've moved them into the pre-built penthouse in SanMysh, and the save file size at that poit was 4GB. It appears to run fine. Using MCCC to catch any last exceptions, although nothing triggered on initial load, I get LE whenever I load the household from main menu,  Manage Worlds, or from build mode. I can also trigger LE when loading into other legacy households I've brought into the new save.

There is no visible lag, but they're not completing tasks as I'd expect. I'm watching them try a group cooking event during the welcome wagon, and while the neighbours are waiting patiently in the kitchen, my lot are sitting around, unbothered. The cooking task is in the active part of the queue, they're just not acting on it. Eventually a second task drops and they do that. I don't know what needed to be fulfilled for them to start cooking, but while I was looking at one Sim that hadn't moved since the task was scheduled, one of my SIms got on with the cooking. They all came over for cake, though.

Also, tasks in progress don't always time out. My Sims could be playing basketball forever. Another task wil pop into the queue (pet the cat), but cancel immediately, and not drop to the active section. I haven't seen tasks pile up in the queue, yet.

After that, I tried another new-new game, and during the welcome wagon, asked them to perform a group cooking activity. This new Sim and the neighbours continued to chat until the Event was over and they said they were leaving - and then they started the cooking activity. After that they were inactive for a few seconds, and then the neighbours left. I can't trigger LE with this new Sim.

I'm going to say that although it doesn't feel sluggish, I don't know if it's working as it should.

Out of curiosity, I placed my legacy household's apartment in a new game (gallery file size 15MB). and the save file is now 34MB. In an other save, I went around deleting photographs from various lots and while it does reduce the file size as shown on the gallery, it doesn't have much effect on the save file size.

What do you think? And actually, what is a 'normal' save file size, or build size? If photographs do bloat the file sizes, what's a reasonable number of photographs for a build? Do paintings that are not unique have the same effect?

I'm going to be gutted if it turns out my legacy game is unsalvageable! What could I try next? Nerf their inventories?

Thanks again for your help ^^

@biscuitist  I've seen a few reports of problems with group cooking, so it's worth testing other activities (with the new sims; I know you did with your old sims in the new save) to make sure you're still seeing the same issue.  The welcome wagon event also complicates things, so please test once it's over.

There's no good guideline for how large a save should be, but over 100 MB is a sign that something may be very wrong with the save.  I have seen saves that large that run okay, not mine but from other people.  However, these tend to be "play all the sims in all the worlds"-style saves, so the large size makes sense given how much sim data would be present.  I'd expect a legacy save of a few generations to be much smaller even when someone has played all the descendants.

The point is, the problem is not the save file size per se, it's something that happens to bloat the save.  The size is a symptom.  A common cause of this bloat is large numbers of sims being generated in the background—I've seen cases with literally 10,000 sims, most of which can only be found with a mod.  If you want to check, one way is to add this mod:

https://frankkmods.com/#/mods/show-sim-info

Click one of your sims and select Search All Sims, and you'll see the total number of sims in your save.

I wouldn't expect photos to have such an outsize effect, although I suppose they could if extra data was attached to them.  At the very least, I'd expect more reports than just yours since a lot of players like to collect in-game photos.

Separately, if you're placing one build in a new save and that save size is immediately 34 MB, that suggests there's something wrong with the build.  You could try saving it as a number of different rooms and placing those to try to narrow things down.

For your legacy save, emptying out the sims' inventories is a useful test, as is moving them to a default EA-made lot.   Use "save as" and see how the save file size changes.  And please do let me know how many sims are in the save.

Thanks @puzzlezaddict 

That looks like a interesting mod, thanks for the tip. I was bracing myself for thousands of Sims and I have... 638. I thought that didn't seem like too many but the new-new game has only 170. So is that more than you'd expect?

In one of my laggy saves, I moved my main family to a pre-built in Willow Creek, and within five minutes, the problems with moving things in live mode appeared. I tore down their old apartment, nerfed the most recent builds and modifications, deleted all (ok all but ten) paintings and photographs from my two main families and nerfed their personal and household inventories. The save file size went from 126.9mb to 126.5. It's not the build or their stuff, then.

Thinking about the size of the save file being indicative, I do remember noticing the save file jump from 40gb to 80gb when I was playing Gen 2, but I thought at the time it was due to downloading a few dlc, Because I had a backup purge (doh!) recently, the earliest save I have is from March, and it's 80k. It's a couple of days after installing Crystal Creations, and on loading tha save I'm getting that same LE that references the jewellery tracker and sim_inventory_component:202.  I had 500 Sims in-game at that point, and had nine played households of which I rotated between two of them.

I don't know if the files were smaller before the crystal pack, but is it problematic to uninstall that dlc (or any other dlc), load the save to purge any of that dlc content, and then bring the dlc back? I know I'd lose completed aspirations and skills, but as things are, I'd take that!

I may be over-concerned with the jewellery tracker LE (I don't know how to interpret its output), but I can't understand why I'm seeing it when I bring my households in to a new save. They don't have any inventory at that point, and even if I bring in their old home, jewellery boxes etc are empty, right? So how is that happening? Is it a CAS issue?

Grateful for your thoughts on what to chase next ^^

@biscuitist  It's fine to uninstall or disable a pack and save your progress without it, that is if you're okay with losing the associated data.  This is the recommendation for some types of issues, and it shouldn't corrupt your save.  You should of course use "save as" to rename the save anyway because more backups are better than fewer.

I'd like to see the LE as well.  You can attach it to a reply as a .txt file if you delete its first line.  Or you can copy and paste the text into a reply; please use a spoiler in that case.

Please also let me know how the save from March runs in comparsion to your current one.  I'm sure you don't want to lose all that progress, but it would be interesting to know.

The number of sims in your save is completely fine and probably normal.

Thank you so much for helping out with this @puzzlezaddict 

The March save plays like a dream compared to my current one! There is more idle behaviour than I remember, but Sims are responsive. When switching back to the current one, it's noticeably choppier - perhaps I hadn't noticed because the stuttering increased so gradually. By the way, the LE didn't trigger in the March save until I loaded the home lot - I'd loaded first into a household member that I'd assumed might be the cause of the LE, but it only triggered when I asked her to go home.

I've attached LE from March, from the new game (with my current F4 household loaded in), and from my current laggy save. Hopefully these are relevant!

@biscuitist  All your lastexceptions look like this issue:

https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/OPEN-CCSP-LE-with-Ring-on-Mystical-Moonlight-Crystal-Grid/td-p/13528121

If you can't find and remove the offending piece of jewelry, you can temporarily disable Crystal Creations and save your progress without it.  That should fix the LE.  I don't know whether it'll fix the lag with the newer version of your save, but it's worth testing.  Use "save as" to rename the save so you're not overwriting your progress.  Here's how to disable a pack:

https://sims4.crinrict.com/eng/2017/03/disable-single-packs/

Let me know what you find.

By the way, your LEs all say they're from a modded game, so please make sure your Mods folder is in fact empty other than the Resource.cfg file.

Thanks again @puzzlezaddict 

I spent yesterday disabling packs, loading my main household, assigning individual and group tasks, creating a new save, and checking the file size to see if the bloat might be associated with that pack. 

Disabling the crystal pack does (temporarily) fix the LE on load. File size fluctuates with each cumulative disable and new save, it goes up or down by around 3MB. But, it seems I was only disabling packs for one household.

After disabling a few packs, I re-enabled the crystal pack, and took one of my main household to another lot. There was a ruddy crystal tree! What's that doing there! In another household, all their crystal stuff and crafted jewellery persists. So, question:

When I disable a pack, I'd need to either go to or enter build mode for each lot, and also load each household before reenabling a pack? Am I missing something? Would I need to ensure that all my Sims had no fame before disabling Get Famous, for example? 

Regarding the mods on the LE I attached, they're MCCC (to catch the LE) and the sim viewer you pointed me to (I've been using it to check the activity queue when the game stalls). I don't mind taking them out, but I thought it useful to see exactly when the LE triggers. I can verify that I got the error without them, too. I just don't know exactly when 😉

So, erm... I think I'll wait for guidance on disabling packs before I waste any more time!

@biscuitist  When you save your progress without a pack present, that entire save should lose all data related to that pack.  Other saves would be unaffected.  Are you saying that in one single version of one save, you disabled Crystals, saved your progress, reenabled the pack, and you saw previous content from that pack?  That is not how things are supposed to work, and frankly it doesn't make sense from a data standpoint.

If that's somehow what's happening, it should be sufficient to load each played household without the pack present, then save once you're done.

Having said that, it doesn't sound like any particular pack is responsible for the majority of the save bloat.  You could disable all packs at once to see what happens (use "save as," of course), but it may be that nothing addresses the bloat in your current save.

The mod I recommended is fine; I just wanted to make sure you hadn't added anything else.  MCCC isn't necessary to catch the LE; it'll exist regardless.  And while MCCC is extensively tested, it's a large-enough mod that it's worth removing while troubleshooting just to keep things simple.

@puzzlezaddict That's exactly what I'm saying, yes! I've removed MCCC as you suggested, and have just disabled all packs except city living (I can move my household to a basegame world ofc, but I'm familiar with this lot), saved as a new file, re-enabled all the packs, and reloaded that save. Showers from the Komorebi pack are absent, but a dresser from the same pack has returned, as have garden items and floor textures. The closet from Get Together, a sofa from the maximalist kit, lights from Tiny Living, knitted items, things from all different packs that weren't there when I saved are back. In the household inventory there's someone else's bike, incense, game consoles, things from multiple packs. It looks completely random. There are also things in there I've never seen before, presumably bc they've been substituted. 

I've taken one of my nekkid bald Sims to another lot. Their pet cat is gone, but the litter box remains. There's no crystal tree this time, though.

Aspirations from my main household have reset as you'd expect, but when I've loaded into another household, although they are partially dressed, their previous aspirations haven't been altered. As far as I can tell, their furniture hasn't altered either. Only their cat has been deleted.

I don't know if this is symptomatic of the lag and/or bloat issues, but at this point, is there anything else to look at, or is it time to abandon it?

Thanks again

@biscuitist  This sounds like some serious data corruption, to be honest.  I can't say for sure because I don't have the tools to take apart a save, but I've seen other cases where progress is only incompletely saved.  Aside from the usual mod-related issues and the occasional game bug, this is typically a sign that the save itself is on its way out.  So while you could experiment for a little longer if you're motivated enough, I doubt you'd accomplish more than postponing the inevitable.

What you can do from here is save everything important to your in-game Library and place it in a new save.  MCCC or relationship cheats can restore relationships among sims in different saved households, and a money/freerealestate cheat can handle that side of things.  Please do check the new save file's size once you've set it up, and again after you've played for a sim-week or so, to make sure it's not bloating again.

Thanks again @puzzlezaddict , I appreciate your time and wisdom!

I've removed my households from the shared gallery, just in case they're cursed.

One last question A few more questions then, if I may! Since I'm too attached (weird, innit!) to abandon them, I'll take a few households into a new save. Do you think it safest to abandon the builds (and their photographs, sigh) and just bring in a few main households? If we're working on the assumption that data is corrupted, it's probably better to migrate as little as possible, right?

I'm not sure how to determine if the same thing is happening again, though. I can use save file size as an indicator, perhaps, but to begin with, if I bring in, say, a household of eight super-Sims, with their traits and whatever other data is preserved in the gallery, there's obviously no point in comparing the gallery size to a newly created household. I know I've asked this before, and it's impossible to give a straight answer, but what might be a guideline file size for a new save with, say, 6 households of eight intensively played Sims? Or a gallery file size for one such household? If I'm bringing in corrupted data to new game, I don't want to find out after another 3000 hours gameplay! What can I look for, to begin with?

@biscuitist  I don't think there's a good answer to how large your save should be.  I would be alarmed if the size increased rapidly, or if a new save (even with super sims and an equally-super mansion) was above... I'm not sure, maybe 40 or 50 MB?  It's hard to say with how much the game has changed over the years.

What I would do in your position is try the sims and the house(s) separately, maybe just letting the game clock run for a while as you do something else, and see what you get both for the initial size and the size after a sim-week or so.  If you want more data, you could also download other super sims and mansions from the Gallery and see how they behave.  I'd avoid older uploads since, again, the game has changed a lot, but anything post-For Rent would probably be fine.  Probably.

I wish I could give you a better answer, but this isn't really a science or even an art so much as voodoo.  On the plus side though, even in the unlikely event that none of your work is usable going forward, all you stand to lose is some time.  And it's worth keeping the sims or even the save on hand to test with future patches, in case something gets fixed in the future.

@puzzlezaddict No, that's a good answer! A guideline is always better than not having any clue.

So I'll do as you suggest, and hopefully rescue a few of my favourite Sims that way.

Thanks again for lending your time, knowledge, and assistance, appreciate it.