Re: Ttk changes apex legends

@SgtVolcom117 

I'm aware of Apex netcode. And it indeed needs improvements. But like i said in this exact same thread before: People are using it as an excuse to their short comings.

I know a lot of people that play this game, in different continents, and the general idea is that yes there's a problem but it's not so bad. And for sure nowhere near the 50% loss that some people are trying to push in this same topic.

But people in this topic try to push what looks like  lies and use the netcode as an excuse to lower the TTK for easier kills.

I will give the benefit of the doubt to these players and say that MAYBE it's their connection. But that's a problem with their connection, not with the game TTK. And shouldn't be used as an excuse to lower the TTK.

The grenade dude TTK wants to pass that it took an grenade of 100 of damage and 6 shots of all pellets hitting to kill a single guy, that goes over 800 of damage. So you are telling me that this game is having 75% of non registry rate? 

I don't want videos of the battle nonsense. I want a video of these players playing to see how much of it is problem of their connection/netcode and how much is they thinking too much of their own aim.

Also Long TTK is more forgiving with positioning, not mid fight and for sure not in the precision. Because suddenly you can miss half of your magazine and still kill the person.

In general Long TTK makes more forgiving for positional error and less forgiving for precision/aim error.(Since if you miss the enemy has a chance to fight back)
While lower TTK makes more forgiving for precision/aim error while make positional error more punishing.(Since if someone flank you, unless the guy is utterly garbage you will die)

Also explains why most people don't know how to flank and more often than not are flanking themselves.(Seriously running in the open to "flank" someone is not flanking.)

Edits and edits. That's what i get for changing stuff and only double checking the text after i click in submit.

@TrueDivinorium 
Don’t get this the wrong way but you are more concerned about a set of players (sharing their perceived experiences) in a forum instead of giving attention to what is the fundamental issue here the net code is flawed (that’s been proven regardless of your not caring for undeniable proof), and the TTk is not ok.

In total honesty I read a couple of examples /situations that occurred with other players and none of them were in here (This forum or thread).

You said that it’s the players problem for bad connection( I have a pretty solid one and I am noticing the same problems as others) , the game is not very good at assigning the closest or best server for you and that in itself may be part of the issue at hand.
Lag maybe also be an issue atm players cant really choose what server hosts them(unless they do that thing where you wait in the main screen etc.) As such the crappy connection allegation (in my book ) falls under the same category as “git good” it’s a non-argument until proven otherwise.
I am not going argue what is best in terms of TTK , I will say this and again its my perception on this matter , requiring a full clip to kill someone(sometimes more) this is nonsense this retracts from the shooter experience also, I thought this was a shooter first looter second hence he who shoots better and first (and by first I also mean a player who is starting the fight assuming he/she lands his/her shots) deserves to be rewarded for the bravery and skill used in approaching and defeating the enemy.
On a side note I truly believe that shorter TTK’S require better players, missing a shot penalizes the player especially if we are talking about player on the same level of skill, am not saying insta-kill style but shorter a lot shorter than they are now..
I don’t believe TTK set to faster than what they are now will not retract that much from tactical and strategic movement and advancement again I may be wrong on this, but I say this because of the high level of mobility and support(armor healing, skills) involved in the game.

Many people do not see the consequences of flawed net code or do they notice lag (such as hits not register on the server due the natural speed of the game) a lot is happening during a firefight as you know and if you are not looking for these specific things, they will only be noticeable if they are absurd in expression.

P.S. maybe solving/polishing the netcode may show me that I am wrong and TTK is good this way, but like  I said having to shoot an enemy more than 16 times to get a kill (which is  not a kill per say, the player can be revived) is just too much there is no reward in shooting part of the game unless you are 1 of the 2 remaining squads then. Speed up the TTK and the gun play will feel crisper and more natural more real if can say that

@SgtVolcom117 

1 - Solving the netcode issue is the solution for what? This thread is called "Ttk changes apex legends". 

Netcode needs to be improved.

But people are asking for changes in the TTK using examples that smell like poor player skill and putting the blame in the netcode. That's my problem with the way the conversation and your argument is going.

I will say again: a dude said he is SURE that the grenade hit for 100 damage and all the pellets of the shotgun hit, 6 times. I'm asking how much damage he saw, because that smells like * or player trying to snipe with a shotgun/ potato aiming 5 shots in a roll and putting the blame in the TTK.

"shorter TTK requires better players"
That's utter *. because as i said before It changes where the focus of the skill are.

Lower TTK makes easier to kill people, requiring less aim but making positioning more relevant. Since you need to land less shot to kill and the player has less time to react.
Higher TTK shift the focus to Aim over positioning, since now you needs to hit more bullets to kill the player and getting them with the pants down now needs more bullets hitting to kill the guy.

The problem that people don't see is that the lower ttk the more people will camp. Because if the average joe can reliably kill you simply because he saw you first now every time you move you may give your position and die without a chance to fight back.

That might be OK in a game like BF or CoD where people instantly respawn; hell if you google my name in Planetside 2 forums you will se me arguing for a lower TTk in  that game.

But this is a BR. And having your 10 minutes of play, loot and gear end without a chance to fight back just because random3 saw you from his house isn't ok. And to avoid that people will naturally play more passively, and you read it right: passively not "strategically", making the extreme of this behavior, camping, WAY more common.

That's why i personally couldn't play PUBG also why it's known as "running simulator". Because of how often you run around for 10 minutes and dies in 2 secs without a chance to fight back; just because rando3 was looking at your direction when you moved.

If you ask me the higher TTK is what sets apex apart from the other games, IMO is what makes the netcode and utter lack of matchmaking tolerable. And why i'm so adamant and calling the * of some players out. We don't need another running simulator in the market.

PS: And i'm calling * in most of what people say because IT'S *. People are trying to push stupidly high amounts of bullets to kill someone and putting the blame in the hit code. When the actual fact is: The game has a higher TTK. But a epic armored dude WILL go down with a epic clip worth of lead. If they are not going down the problem is you, not the netcode.

And i'm straight up saying the problem IS you because it actually is. Just look at the post of people trying to lower the TTK. Using examples like BF, the average Accuracy of BF players are stupidly low. But they kill people because you need 5 bullets to kill someone and have a mag of 20+

So missing 75% of the shots there still net a kill before a reload.

In this game where you NEED to more than half the mag to connect to kill before reloading your * aim aren't gonna fly.

Yet that's true for both sides since the enemy has the same TTK on you; but more often than not players that were a "big shot" in other games come to a higher TTK game and get face to face with the truth that they are not as good as they think they are. And here we are. Some "pros" asking for easier kills.

@Kuro466 

Quite frankly this survey is.... lacking.

Most questions don't have good answer/is more complex than what is there so i will answer here.

1 - TTK is good.

2 - The problem isn't the TTK with these weapons but how they warp the game.

Wingman: It's not the TTK, it's the fact that you have a weapon with a stupidly high damage per shot, a stupidly high damage per magazine, with a stupidly high headshot modifier, that can be used to reliably snipe AND is a pistol.(So it gets the move speed bonus)

So you have a weapon that is all around good and require low precision to use. Also lets not forget how little armor it consume, 1 stack for Spitfire/R-99/R-301/havok/devotion/prowler? You are in deep * next fight. For wingman is all you need and with a lot to spare.
That weapon is straight up * design and i cannot see a world where it will not warp the game around itself. I would redesign the weapon completely but a good TRUE nerf would be removing the mag extender from it, making people actually care about hitting the shots.

Peace Keeper: The problem is not the damage it does, it's how it warps the game around it when used and how little chance to fight back it gives. There's no problem with a shotgun being good. the problem is how little time it gives to you to fight back. And i'm not talking about time between shots. I'm talking about times between reloads. It should have 2 at MOST 3 bullets per magazine. It's ok to have a strong spammy weapon for close range, it's not ok to it be as forgiving as the PK is.

There's a reason why CQC fights with the PK involved turn into a jump party. Because you are more focused in dodging the bullets instead of actually hitting yours; what's fine, the real problem is how long you have to keep dodging the bullets until you have a real window to punish the PK user.

3

The TTK is OK, there's no problem of having a weapon with a WAY shorter TTK, the problem is how forgiving the PK is. Weapons like the R99 has a TTK as low as the PK but you cannot simply jump around and hope to hit 2/6 shots to kill someone. If you do you will likely run out of ammo sooner than later.

4

Hardcore.

5

10+ years(albeit with HUGE hiatus in it)

6

2000+

7

Average player of the actual public or the average player of the "entire" public?
The player that actually play apex have 100~500 hours.
But it's a free game, we have a lot of people that log once every week see what's up and them go play something else. Like for real i have a 10 year old cousin that play apex for like 30 minutes every week and play batman lego for 4 hours/day. Should we include in as a "player" or better "target audience"? Because if we do the average is way lower.

8

No, at least not until they improve the netcode. If anything maybe they will have to increase it. Because on paper the Netcode is really bad but playing the game feels super nice, maybe with a good netcode we will discover the TTK is too low.

9

No. I don't think respawn will be able to manage this game and keep it being as relevant as it's today.(Surprisingly)
We have a team that used the card "slow incremental changes because we are careful in what we do" yet launched the game with * hitboxes; seriously i doubt that not a single play-tester noticed something was up with these characters.

They launched a game about hitting targets where one target is almost 3x as big as the other; In fact i can even see the the devs bringing the issue in a reunion and the lead dev/shot callare, that probably don't even play FPS games, saying "nah it's fine. No one will notice, we have more urgent matters."

@TrueDivinorium What you wrote is the most accurate and compelling explanation of the TTK situation ive seen so far. Thanks!

I know the survey is simple. Its hard to handle too much complexity in a multiple choice survey.

@TrueDivinorium 
In relation to the netcode i know this post is not about it i brought it up just say that it may be influencing our perspective on some things and that until polished somethings are harder to see clearly.

I have to agree with what you said ,that the TTK may not be the problem but rather the way weapons are that is messing stuff up ( i was´t looking at the issue comparatively to other BR's (this is the first one i sink my teeth in), still don't like to have to put a lot of bullets to kill a foe but i get why there is a necessity for it.(you mentioned PUBG camping i had a look into it and yes that is utter chit waiting for ever to see 1 person and fight for 3 seconds then its over.)

When i say TTK requires better player is in the sense that you can not have the luxury of missing  shots so you have to be accurate , but yeah that also gives the frantic panicking player that sprays every where a certain edge i guess, but i see that its not this straight forward.

That said i dont really know how to feel about this TTK situation there is merit on both sides of this argument my conclusion is that would not like to be a respwan worker atm they must have a * tone of work 2 do :D , maybe respawn will have a to fiddle with it maybe ask us player's for patient and during a full week raise ttk and the next lower it to see players response. dunno its not an easy one i give you that (and thanks for a clear honest perspective on "the other side" of the issue.

@TrueDivinorium 

"I will say again: a dude said he is SURE that the grenade hit for 100 damage and all the pellets of the shotgun hit, 6 times. I'm asking how much damage he saw, because that smells like * or player trying to snipe with a shotgun/ potato aiming 5 shots in a roll and putting the blame in the TTK."

The dude is a 31 year old lawyer, far from being a dude anymore but I suppose I am among dudes so I`ll let it pass. When I state something I state it based not on what I "perceive" but on what happened. Yes, I am sure of everything I said. You want the exact ammount of damage my 6 pellets inflicted on the enemy? At the moment I had "stacking damage" selected so I cannot remember the exact ammount but it was raining with 10+ damage from top to bottom. But again, it doesn`t matter because it is absurd just to have to justify so many shots and so much damage just to down a player. The conversation should end at "a grenade plus x". And remember, there are older "dudes" on the internet as well, no need to get triggered, not everybody is a kid or a teenager coming up with exaggerated claims.   

"shorter TTK requires better players"
"That's utter *. because as i said before It changes where the focus of the skill are. "

It does require better players. As for examples, you can basically throw yourself at the enemy team because you know it takes so much to get downed and eventually killed, which I see happens a lot especially with Octane. You have Octane with Q activated running through a team thus getting focused while your two teammates pin down the enemy team. When I play Octane I die only if I find myself against more than 3 enemies. Otherwise it is pretty hard to die with Octane. Add purple armor or a legendary chest or helmet and you are invincible. What exactly is tactical about that? It is tactics nonetheless but just idiotic. This is the perfect example of why lower TTK would be perfect. Characters are fast, you can dodge quickly, smoke bombs, everything is alert, it`s not like it would be easier to aim. 

Imagine wasting your time coming up with a surprise attack only to realise that it takes a ton of bullets to down or kill one guy so by the time you are finished with one team another one gets to join the fight or even more teams, it depends. So no surprise attacks, unless the enemy completely ignores you shooting them so the strategy becomes quite simple: wait for other teams to start fighting and pick up the easy kills or wait for most teams to get eliminated and join a fight at the very end, camping and looting. So I don`t think lower TTK is worse, or will make people camp, because it already happens but in another way and for different reasons. The game was made to be fun for everybody, and it is, but for those who want a bit more of a challenge, well, it falls short.

And it goes both ways by the way, I get downed and killed the same as the others, I don`t point out these things because I am not on par with the opposition, I just don`t find it challenging surviving that much after so much inflicted damage. I can basically stand still and shoot and still get the kill or not get killed. 

@FatSupra 

Hey "Lawyer" post a video then; because i don't believe in anything you said. You are saying things that i don't see in my games, i don't see in streams i watch and the people i speak with don't say that it happens.
Like they say: extraordinary affirmations require extraordinary proofs.

And at this point you would need an entire day of streaming to back what you are saying.

@TrueDivinorium 

Nice, "Lawyer", I like that.

I don`t have the video of that particular moment because I don`t go around capturing everything in case I`ll have to "debate" something on the internet one day and well, you don`t have to believe me because I am not trying to convince you of something that doesn`t exist or is a fabulation and I don`t see how this is extraordinary by any means. Certainly there are videos on Youtube from which you can see for yourself that what I have shared on this forum is not a singular experience. And I have not at any point said that what took place is something out of the ordinary, it is just how the game is, so I really don`t understand what proof you need and of what. We do play the same game you know, it is not something that happened only to me, it is how the mechanics of the game are, period. Maybe you don`t care so much about this TTK therefore you don`t "see" anything wrong with it because you believe it belongs, so you dismiss any different experience a player might have as *.  I just came here to share my opinion on the game, not to get into arguments over what I said is either true or not. That is up to you and I certainly don`t have to go to any lengths to prove anything that exists and is available for anyone to see. And it is beside the point anyway, we are talking about TTK, whether it is ok the way it is or not. Things sure escalate quickly over the internet.

Anyways, have a nice day and enjoy your Saturday!

@FatSupra 

That's the problem. I don't experience any of that. I will bring again your first example. I never seen someone take 800 of damage to kill in a single go. When it happens i gave they the chance to hit or i wasn't hitting the same person.

To be fair MAYBE you were shooting someone downed with a purple shield, that thing has 550 of health, but that would be a kill confirmation and that tab would be in you, not the game. It's easy enough to go around the shield.

You say how flanking isn't a thing and how much time it takes to kill someone, when it's not. At least not when the player knows hot to play.

That's what an average player looks like in a flank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6PmWeYvjqU

Also realize how in the second kill he was shooting the guy downed with the shield AND the guy alive, maybe that's what happened in your game and you don't realize.

About the "better player"
That's again you apparently not knowing what means to be a "better" player. Because as i said, it changes the focus of the game to Aim from positioning. And while it's true that it makes easier to jump in the middle of three and survive, it also makes harder to jump in the middle of tree and kill the three guys. Saying that lower TTK is better because it doesn't allow that kinda shows how little you know about "skills" involved in a FPS game. Again: it changes the weight of each skill, it doesn't make player X better or worse.

"surprise" attacks brings the advantage of being full health or even scoring a kill if you are good enough.(and you don't even need to be that good)

Surprise attacks allow you to win THAT encounter but the third party can happen if you do it or not, then the question turn into: You would rather fight the  first encounter at advantage and try to fight the second or fight the first without advantage and try to fight the second either way.

Than go play PUBG and compare the camp there to the camp here. In Apex the camp only happens when there's 3 squads in the ring and more often than not it's broken when one squad spot other. That's because they don't want to suffer a "surprise" attack. Meanwhile in PUBG from the very first minute there will be people camping.

You keep bringing situations that are almost out of fairy tales; the dude taking 800 of damage to kill, people standing still and surviving; and argue that's common to occur, then argue that you weren't capturing at the time. If it's something common go in any game and it will happen again. Until then sorry but what you say sounds like someone that didn't even touch the game i play.

And I threw the "Lawyer" because you brought it out of nowhere as it was relevant to the discussion. Not sure if i was supposed to be impressed but it clearly didn't work.

I agree that Shorter ttk is not more skillful imo.   Its the opposite.  It becomes a more of a who shot first wins the fight scenario.  I was upset when bfv removed lowered the ttk due to community demands,  even though it increased my k/d lol.

  I think it takes more skill to get hit first,  turn around and defend yourself and gain the upper hand.   I'm partial to games like quake and unreal.  I played cs because it had a more sporting community and became more popular years later.     But Quake is more of an actual fps e-sport as a game, imo.

TTK seems a bit high when you have purple armor, but the REAL PROBLEM is with servers. Hit registration is by far the worst i have seen so far ( even worse that BF: Hardline!) and netcode is trash. What tick rate are servers running? Feels worse than playing CoD:BO4 BR on their 20hz servers lol.

@FatSupra post *any* example video.. if they are so easy to find, you should easily be able to post or link one. If you're actually a lawyer, you should understand the burden of proof, and why a court doesn't just "believe you because you said it".

The R-99 flank and double-knock video posted by @TrueDivinorium is pretty much my experience.. Right now I'm on vacation away from my main machine, so I can't share any personal clips right now, but I can gladly do so later. (The only clip I've uploaded for friends is this fun 6 kills on dropship with triple-take, but most of them didn't have guns)

If I flank and land my bullets, the enemy goes down. When I first started playing, I didn't land enough bullet, so that was a problem... However, the better I get at actually landing most of the shots, the more reliably an enemy goes down. My favorite weapons for this are R-99 and Spitfire, though I've learned I have to be careful about getting too close and personal, lest I get 2HKed by a Peacekeeper to the face. That seems like weapon balance to me, not a problem. Peacekeeper has been more random for me, some games I land 85+ dmg shots and feel like superman, some games I wiff everything and curse the darn thing. Ditto for wingman.

@TrueDivinorium 

Again, that example is not the point of this discussion, I just brought it up, from all the scenarios I`ve been through (there are others as well), to showcase how much time or damage it takes to kill an enemy player. You don`t believe my example, fine, I don`t care and it doesn`t matter, but the damage or time it takes to kill an enemy doesn`t change, it`s still the same, which as I will state again, I find it to be high. That`s the point of this whole discussion. Simple as that really. This is not a debate, it is just me and my opinion and examples of why I think a lower TTK would fit better. I don`t try to convince you of anything, yet here you are "schooling me" with your knowledge of "tactical warfare" and FPS skills as if you are an authority on the subject and I have no clue of what I am talking about. If that`s how you stand by your beliefs and opinions, well...so be it. 

"You say how flanking isn't a thing and how much time it takes to kill someone, when it's not. At least not when the player knows hot to play.

That's what an average player looks like in a flank."

I said the element of surprise in this game is not that much of a surprise, unless of course the enemy team is not very good. I never mentioned flanking or how flanking works or doesn`t work. I don`t know where you got that from. You are twisting the conversation to fit your narrative. That Youtube video just proves my point and it shows poor decision making from that team and how bad they were as players. If you do stumble upon enemies like those then yes, everything works, including surprise attacks. Plus, it took 54 bullets in total to get rid of those 2, not to mention the medic had no shields and neither did Wraith, so one R99 mag to down an enemy without shields and another mag for the actual killing (if it`s a white knockdown shield). That`s what I keep talking about but to no avail. You just found the example video you so wanted to see. It also proves what I said in my earlier post, that you find this TTK (well, not TTK per se but the amount of damage to be inflicted or the amount of armor one has) to be normal and beneficial, and you see it as it belongs in this game and doesn`t have to be changed. To me it`s just too much. This is what I saying all along, nothing else, and look where all this ended up.

"About the "better player"
That's again you apparently not knowing what means to be a "better" player. Because as i said, it changes the focus of the game to Aim from positioning. And while it's true that it makes easier to jump in the middle of three and survive, it also makes harder to jump in the middle of tree and kill the three guys. Saying that lower TTK is better because it doesn't allow that kinda shows how little you know about "skills" involved in a FPS game. Again: it changes the weight of each skill, it doesn't make player X better or worse."

I never said that lower TTK is better because it allows you or any other player to jump in the middle of 3 enemies in order to kill them. I am sorry but I really don`t see how you come up with all these conclusions after reading my post. And why would you jump in the middle of the enemy team to try and kill all three guys by yourself? Sorry, I don`t know what you were trying to say there. You keep talking about the focus of the game being shifted from positioning to aiming and how that is a good thing. Well, positioning is part of combat, the most important, be it at a large scale or small. It is more important to position yourself and take positional advantage. I mean logic dictates that you first position yourself in order to have a clear line of sight, to be able to aim more precisely and at the same time to make sure you don`t find yourself in a situation where you can get ambushed. Anybody can aim, some better, some worse, but knowing how to position yourself is not that simple. There are more variables to take into account when searching for tactical advantages through positioning. But we are already getting in this too deep for a videogame.  

"surprise" attacks brings the advantage of being full health or even scoring a kill if you are good enough.(and you don't even need to be that good)

Surprise attacks allow you to win THAT encounter but the third party can happen if you do it or not, then the question turn into: You would rather fight the  first encounter at advantage and try to fight the second or fight the first without advantage and try to fight the second either way."

Well, I don`t know which situation you usually find your enemies in after a surprise attack but most of my enemies choose to just run instantly or they shoot a few bullets and then run to recharge shields or heal and then again some shots, recharge, heal, or they try to flank. It is not like you can deploy surprise attack from very close, because they can hear you, they can see you if they know how to scout and not dive head first, they can use Bloodhound, etc. By the time someone actually dies more teams get to jump into the fight and usually the last one to the party gets to win which brings me to camping. I didn`t mean camping as literally sitting in a corner, I meant avoiding fights, that`s why I said it happens for different reasons and under a different form. You don`t have to literally just stand in a corner, you can also avoid a fight completely only to join at the end of the match or when others are fighting and just pick the easy kills. All this is a vicious cycle. It has nothing to do with skill or tactics, it is all rendered simple.

"Than go play PUBG and compare the camp there to the camp here. In Apex the camp only happens when there's 3 squads in the ring and more often than not it's broken when one squad spot other. That's because they don't want to suffer a "surprise" attack. Meanwhile in PUBG from the very first minute there will be people camping."

I never played PUBG and I don`t intend to, but I sense you have a problem with that particular game since you mentioned it a few times in a negative light. I wonder why. I`ve explained above what I meant by camping in Apex. I think the scenario you are describing with the last 3 teams takes place because they know it takes a while to down an entire squad and by the time they do so they might get pinned down by the other team. So they wait for the other teams to initiate the fight.

"You keep bringing situations that are almost out of fairy tales; the dude taking 800 of damage to kill, people standing still and surviving; and argue that's common to occur, then argue that you weren't capturing at the time. If it's something common go in any game and it will happen again. Until then sorry but what you say sounds like someone that didn't even touch the game i play."

I am a sucker for fairy tales what can I say. I don`t recall bringing up "situations", I think you are referring to my only example. People standing still and surviving? Where did that come from? You were probably referring to this > "I just don`t find it challenging surviving that much after so much inflicted damage. I can basically stand still and shoot and still get the kill or not get killed". I think after you read it again you`ll understand what I meant by that. I literally don`t have much energy left in me.

"And I threw the "Lawyer" because you brought it out of nowhere as it was relevant to the discussion. Not sure if i was supposed to be impressed but it clearly didn't work."

I don`t see why I would say I am a 31 lawyer to impress someone over the internet, especially a younger audience or videogamers. The problem nowadays is everybody is disrespectful, especially behind the keyboard. The point I was trying to make is that I am not a "dude". I haven`t studied my entire life and sacrificed so much to let anyone call me "dude" on a forum or anywhere else, plus my 31 years of age. I don`t take these things lightly. It may be ok for the younger generation or for people who care more about their Iphones but not me. No offense by the way, I am sure you are a lovely young man but the Internet sometimes makes us forget there is another human being on the other side of the keyboard, especially when we valiantly fight to defend our opinions. 

@Kuro466  First of all it seems I have to keep repeating myself that my example is not the point of this discussion. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything. How exactly you lot came to that conclusion is beyond me. And yes I am an actual lawyer as hard as that might be to believe. Have the standards lowered so much nowadays? Is a lawyer that much big of a deal? I feel flattered. I see you brought the "burden of proof" into discussion. I suppose you know what it means because I am not gonna bring the "law" on a videogame forum as well, I've had enough of it on a daily basis. You got the court part partially right though so there`s that.

Have a nice day everybody! 

if they decrease TtK the game will be done in a month.  They should increase TtK and make reviving quicker and make it so you revive with half bace health.  I want long fun epic team battles.  I don't what cheap campy game play.

@FatSupra 

Well... i will not bother to answer what you said because you keep repeating yourself in things i answered 4 times. You use examples that are fairy tales as example and try to push it as a reason to reduce TTK.
By that same rules i can bring how a dude kicked me out of the map once and i died in seconds, so the TTK should be increased since my example happened once right?

And you are talking with a 26 year old software engineer with 6+ years of game development, with degree in computers science and over 10 years studying game development.

From my point of view you are just another dude in this matter and should be treated like it, same as me because I am not here for work; I am here as a costumer. If you feel offended by it, you have problems.

I will wait any video to prove your examples, until them. I'm sorry but like any good lawyer you are twisting facts to get your way.

TLDR: You used it as example,something that smells like *, in why the game TTK is too high, yet argue that's not the point. Then what was the point of bringing that tale?

@FatSupra so many words, no video example. 

TTK is perfect as is.

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@FatSupra 

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I've learned that there's no talking to any of these people. 

They are stuck wanting the game the way they want it despite a lot of feedback to have things play differently. 

Also there is a huge difference in the way this game plays on PC and Console but there isn't a Console section here so all you get is PC elitists. (This coming from someone who started playing shooters in PC almost 29 years ago).

I stopped playing this game because it's not mid tier or casual friendly and neither are the forums.so have most of my friends. 

Downing players is way too 'headshot' centric and I'm sorry but not everyone is a high skill player. If that's all people want then fine but they're going to lose a lot of players. Maybe they don't care but I've determined that the game is not for me and neither is this forum. 

They also don't believe in tactical flanking and 'surprise" attacks as being an advantage. They think all engagements should be counterable.

Pretty much all I get out of the people here is they ALWAYS want the ability to make a big play. 

Sorry but that's not how stuff works. 

Go to BFV Firestorm it plays so much better IMO.