Do NOT get rid of bunny hopping

A tad bit harsh with the statements, with your forum entry, but you're definitely getting the correct points across. I understand your aggravation with these macros and exploits being used and I stand beside you in agreeance.

I didn't miss the point, I was addressing the attitude in general. Not every engine quirk being exploited has same severity. And some of them became a staple of their respective genres (combos, cancels or bunny hopping in source games).

Combos weren't meant to be used when they were discovered. Same with strafe jumping, animation cancelling etc. People discovered that they can exploit the hit stun animation and connect two or more attacks that shouldn't be connected. It's a clear exploit of an engine/programming quirk. Developers, however, embraced it instead of hammering it down and we now have a beautiful tool for ensuring good return on investment dynamics as well as more clear gap between players in regards to fighting games.

Animation cancels in fps games are good enough for them to make an impact. If I play OW for example and have practiced canceling and I am good at it and take Soldier for example, I will have like 20% more output than my opponent who is the same as me and plays Soldier as well. With Genji, if you use canceling in your combos, you can kill a person in like tenth of a second vs not killing them. That's a huge difference. And before you reply, please take into consideration that OW is the most rigid and * game in existence. But, they left that in, because a genji player who practiced that and the one that didn't are being differentiated through that. It;s also an unintended sequence, but even Blizzard in their rigidity recognized it as something that can help provide something to players that might give the edge to one player over another player.
In other games, such as Blade and Soul, animation cancels make you twice as better if not more. And they are embraced (they weren't there on purpose) and classes are being balanced with them in mind (ie, dps of a class would be calculated using the data with canceling included).

Quake is an old game, but it's an example of a glitch being embraced by the developers and literally propelling quake into a flagship of competitive game with high skill ceiling and fantastic movement, with many games emulating it. Newer quake titles also have this in them. Same as fighting games and combos. I think it's unfair for you to point out how quake is an old game. Quake devs could have slammed the movement quirks as soon as they have been detected, it was a matter of whether to squash the bug or not and they decided not to. And that doesn't have anything to do with the game being old, the same decisions are being done now with new titles when it comes to the same things.

"Healing is supposed to slow you down for balancing purposes. Allowing it to be circumvented with bunnyhopping is just plain stupid. May as well remove the slow completely while you're at it."

Yes, but everyone has access to it and if someone don't bother with it (like me for example, I can't be arsed to do it), they will be at a disadvantage. If you just remove the slow, you removed that tiny piece of advantage someone who learned an action has over someone else (disregarding macros, I am giving an example - I mean, there are very simple macros for full auto single shot firing, you will always have those things).
Slowing down is there for balancing purposes, but if everyone has the access to quickening that, no one is disadvantaged - unless you don't want to learn it. It's a symmetrical thing, it doesn't favor characters over one another. It does, however, favor investment over no investment and that's not bad.

"PK having to go through a lever action between each shot is also there for balancing."

See, this is different and it should be patched, even if everyone can learn it, because it affects weapon balance compared to other weapons. Why use eva if peacekeeper shoots faster? This is something I don't see with bunny hopping.

"Slowing down the player or forcing him to go through animations is there to BALANCE the game. It is required. Allowing a bunch of key presses (and/or macros) to ignore those aspects and wanting those exploits to stay in the game is wanting to not have balance in the game. It's just stupid."

Depends on the specific example. What does it affect, how etc. You dismissed my examples of the exact same thing because the games are "old" or because it's not "enough of an advantage" or because it was intended (which it wasn't in case of combos), which is very conventient for your argument, but it's unfair, because each of those examples are the exact same thing as, say, bunnyhopping in Apex. Unintended glitches that were discovered, got popular and made those games more clear when it comes to investment and return.

I will take this waht you said as an example
"may as well throw the balance out the window and allow it to shoot faster, hey?"
While I do agree the peacekeeper cancel should go, this is the issue I have with your reasoning. And please try to understand why. You are equating something that requires a certain sequence to something that doesn't.
Let's go back to fighting games, because they are a clear example of that. In order to do a good combo in a solidly hard fighting game, you need lots of practice. Even I, who have many hours in fighting games, usually go my first 50 hours or so without actually playing, but practicing combos, setups etc. So, let's say one of the combos takes away 30% of health.
Now, bear with me, I am not saying it's the same, but please, please understand the context of comparison.
So, that combo takes away 30% of health and that's a lot, for example. You need to do a certain sequence in certain rhythm at a certain distance, while in an actual match and not training room in order to do it. Don't you think that an argument along the lines of "so, the 30% hp move exists, why not just give it to players to be bound on a button press" is silly?
Again, I am not saying it's the same, I am not saying the peacekeeper cancel should stay, I am pointing out the philosophy behind what you said. With that kind of logic, everything that requires a certain input or sequence in order to give you an advantage over someone who doesn't do it/can't do it/got panicked and didn't execute it properly should be ironed out and either removed or made accessible.

I never said I support ALL the exploits and glitches. But bunny hopping was there in many games in source engine (all of them pretty much) and has never been condemned, not by players and not by developers and has been regarded as an activity that when mastered, gives you an advantage over someone who hasn't bothered. In all of those games that have it, it gives an advantage and it messes with the intended pace of the game. But it wasn't condemned because it does so in a symmetrical manner and it doesn't break the game (I agree that wraith double portal breaks the game, peacekeeper breaks the game as I explained above, infinite floating breaks the game - I think that has been patched out?, seeing through smoke breaks the game etc).

bhoping in source game has been classified as "External Assistance" which is against all epsport competitive rules, you wont get VAC banned for it but you can and will be reported via an Over Watch viewer. Jump binds are banned on esea and faceit leagues. That refers to any script or mouse bind you use.

there is no longer an argument for this case: 

Anyone whining about bunny hopping or now with apex bhop heal just cant do it plan and simple if you could you wouldn't cry about it. this has been going on since the early days of Team Fortress Classic. waaa I can't hit them because they move too fast.."this was the biggest complaint in TFC"  No, you can't hit them because you are awful at gaming. Now because of all the babies that can't bhop heal.... not like the * was hard anyway.  They took it out.   Apex should be worried about taking real cheats out of this game.. Aimbots,ESP, no recoil ect ect with a respectable anti-cheat....  Macros are easily stopped along with the major cheats.

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@Animated999 wrote:

Anyone whining about bunny hopping or now with apex bhop heal just cant do it plan and simple if you could you wouldn't cry about it. this has been going on since the early days of Team Fortress Classic. waaa I can't hit them because they move too fast.."this was the biggest complaint in TFC"  No, you can't hit them because you are awful at gaming. Now because of all the babies that can't bhop heal.... not like the * was hard anyway.  They took it out.   Apex should be worried about taking real cheats out of this game.. Aimbots,ESP, no recoil ect ect with a respectable anti-cheat....  Macros are easily stopped along with the major cheats.

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true i didnt saw any good player who would say bhop remowal was a good idea all streamers are really sad about it and even stop playig apex after this update

Ow, people can use macro for recoil, let's remove weapon's recoil for make it fair.

They took it away, increased recoil while sliding, with every patch the skillgap between hardcore and casuals lowers and honestly am sick and tired of modern shooters tending to casuals in general... I have uninstalled this game because of it and UNLESS I will somehow hear magically that they made the game better, fixed the issues that are there for MONTHS and reverted some of the DUMBEST changes I have ever witnessed in gaming industry, then MAYBE I will touch it again. Otherwise this trash game can avoid me by miles please. The game will be this way barren empty as COD4: Blackout or Fallout 76 better to throw it away now then later

It is gone @SugoiBuruSera @WeSmokeFatOnes .

Now deal with it. 

No matter what do you write down here will ever change a thing. And even if you (magically) get all this useres here to your side.... nothing will change.

IT IS GONE

Well then the hardcore community is gone, influencers are gone and the games playerbase will be soon gone too, the game wont die but it wont be good enough to be again top on twitch or have decent playerbase... so yes... GONE