This thing is a free charged Sentinel you can have the whole game as third weapon.First shot is 50dmg, second bodyshot is 100 and if headshot its 130.Also much easier to hit than Sentinel or Kraber shot.Already got oneshotted from far away by pre-made team.This Kraber is charged way too quick allowing you to destroy anyone in first circle just with this.This ultimate absolutelly isnt what youre describing it to be... Its just third weapon, same or more powerful than Sentinel which is extremelly broken when pre-made team is using it calling the shots.Why solo with randoms even play against pre-mades ? I dont really know. Its always super poisitive experience from Apex getting oneshotted just because they are pre-made before I can even know about them. This is exactly what is going to make players switch to Warzone 2 if its going to be any good, without this unfair matchmaking Apex would be a perfect game for me.I dont expect anything to change, I can clearly see where it goes...

@Awhoo_ThunderCan't disagree with anything you said. Still not sure if I think this is just a case of the developer stepping in it with an "oops," or if this represents the real "wheels off the bus" moment that most games hit eventually. I'm still playing the game, but it barely even resembles the game I started playing three years ago, and I'm pretty sure that almost none of the intervening changes have been for the better. Still waiting and seeing, but playing a little less than before, and finding it less fun than ever.

@BalladalidilaHere's the risks:- Using her ult immediately reveals your location- Her ult will let you know if you're being aimed at- Missing- Extreme ADS slowdown- Slow fire rate (if you hit someone with one shot, by the time you have rechambered the next round, they are most likely behind cover, if not, that is their fault and its not the ult that is op)Rewards:- Ult grants short damage buff for squad- You "tag" them (not really that strong imo, I never know when my teammate tagged someone as I can't see it. Should be more like mad maggie's passive in highilighting the enemy)I'm not against changes, but I don't think she's "broken and OP" like everyone claims.And this whole "free third gun" argument is bs. If you want to go with that, then remove ramparts ult too. Nobody complains about that. Hell her ult can shoot through doors. * her ult is basically impossible to get away from.Now, I could see some of the following changes to help balance this:- Ult behaves just like ramparts: Cant use it until fully charged, must deplete fully before charging continues, make charging faster too then.- Ult had reduced tag time (but maybe not, its not that bad)I just don't see a huge problem with her. This game is not about playing it the same every time. Each legend needs to be dealt with differently. The second I see a laser from a vantage, I immediately find cover, run in a zig-zag random pattern, or honestly shoot back if I have a long range. I've knocked a vantage with my longbow/charge rifle already when she was using her ult. I took the first hit but knew I could get her before she had time to get off that second one. Yeah her squad didn't coordinate shots but that's their fault. Any squad that coordinates shots will always do better with or without a vantage legend on the team. If you keep dying to her ult, play differently.

@NickBeam27 First, I have to admit that I feel that her OP:ness is significantly more noticeable on KC than World edge and Storm point. And maybe its more due to my individual set of skills rather than something thats objectively true but I think this is because the distance between different POIs are much shorter in KC, so when you for instance third party a fight as Vantage, you usually come up to the fight at a distance where its basically point and click, i.e no travel time compensation etc. But once again; perhaps thats just me but Ive landed so many 4k+ damage as Vantage. Before, I had like maybe 10 4k games in total since the first week of Apex release but I think Ive had 5 4K dmg games on Vantage since she was released. So bottom line; I dont think her that OP on the other map. If they just adjusted her passive to not detect enemies through obstacle or just by sweeping passed them, then I think she is strong but not too OP.And I totally agree with your point that Respawns legend design seems to be focused on making legends that compensate for necciseray Apex skills. Its like they are thinking "oh so some player are bad at spotting enemies; lets make a legend that does that for them ", or like you mentioned : "oh some players have a hard time mastering sniping; lets make a legend that does that for them" =)IMO, this game should be 80% about your aim skills, movement skills, your wits/game IQ and your game sense where abilities just adds the icing to the cake so to speak. I hate if this game become more like Overwatch where the abillites is the main focus. And yeah the reveal meta is stupid. ps.Just also realized that on my two last 4k+ dmg games with Vantage, I had surprisingly low kill count. Btw, I NEVER play with a sniper or marksman. I usually go R99, PK, Wingman, L-star or R301 in some combination and I use the ULT as a long/mid distance third gun. But perhaps is this high dmg low kills an "indication" that her ULT indeed is very powerful. Because in my experience, its SO easy to 2 or 3 tap someone from long distance with her Ult, too far away to always be able to secure the kill but still an easy 4-600 extra damage before even entering the fight.

@Balladalidila I think you are right about KC and Advantage being more of a problem in that map. Exactly the way you explained it, also they did remove a lot of things so cover seems much more scarce than previous.I like what you said here - "IMO, this game should be 80% about your aim skills, movement skills, your wits/game IQ and your game sense where abilities just adds the icing to the cake so to speak." - I feel that is a spot on take.I have also noticed the game has changed to a sniper meta, not just because there are many Vantages out there...but because there are many Vantages out there, many other players are running snipers to be able to engage her as we have noticed the fire fights are now since the start of this new season more long range than ever before. So its a Sniper fest at the moment and personally for me is ruining my norm Apex experience I grew to love - close quarters and mid range combat, stressful and exciting. Now its just boring - my random teammate is 9 out of 10 times a vantage and because they always want to engage from stupid distances, I am forced to either sit there and do nothing as they rack up damage but don't usually kill anyone or press in alone and die. I don't normally use a marksman, G7 here and there, so for me....its turned into a very boring style of play.

i love vantage, and i will play the hell out of the character as long as its not nerfed, just feels that good.

New hero is absolutelly broken. | EA Forums

19 Replies

reconzero
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@Awhoo_Thunder

Can't disagree with anything you said. Still not sure if I think this is just a case of the developer stepping in it with an "oops," or if this represents the real "wheels off the bus" moment that most games hit eventually. I'm still playing the game, but it barely even resembles the game I started playing three years ago, and I'm pretty sure that almost none of the intervening changes have been for the better. Still waiting and seeing, but playing a little less than before, and finding it less fun than ever.
r1ggedgame
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
i love vantage, and i will play the hell out of the character as long as its not nerfed, just feels that good.
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
Respawn has officially said that they always release stuff a bit too OP rather than a bit too weak probably because they need data to re-balance it and no one would play something that is weak on release and also so that kids buy more skins hehe. Not a very serious approach imo but Respawn has shown they have their hrmm lets say a very unique approach on many things.
I think the ult should have max 3 shots fully charged since this is the number of shots that can kill through full red armor (perhaps not on Gibbe/Caustic/Newcastle ?). I think its ridiculous that you can kill AND execute in 4 shots and its actually quite easy to land those shots if the enemy is trying to run away from you etc.
Awhoo_Thunder
4 years ago
@Balladalidila
Yeah it goes for every game, you want YouTube video titles look like New hero is broken OP, than new hero is dogwater. :D Plus you want to sell skins obviously, guess you cant refund them when your hero gets nerfed... :D
SolitaryMassacr
4 years ago
@Awhoo_Thunder She is nowhere near broken.

I just don't run in a straight line when being targeted by her, and I don't stand out in the middle of the open. She was definitely needed as snipers in this game are almost useless except for getting damage and evolving your evo.

She is super easy to counter. I personally have only ever been knocked by her ult due to the person who knocked me 3rd partied the fight I was currently in. I've avoided all her shots already. I have gotten hit by her first shot, but simply ran for cover and was fine.

Eary game she only has one bullet which does 5 more damage then a wingman. Wouldn't say that is OP and broken.
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@SolitaryMassacre
I dont think she is that broken in pubs or low elo ranked but in Platinum+ ranked, she is quite OP due to how the game is played. But just remove 1-2 shots in the mag from the ULT and fix the passive so that it doesnt work as a wallhack and I think she would be OK. The passive is extra broken since since it marks the enemy through smoke and clutter.
SolitaryMassacr
4 years ago
@Balladalidila

I think removing any rounds would make her useless. Her ult is a huge risk huge reward. I could see some changes to bullet size tho, its very large so even behind cover you are still getting hit. In terms of plat+ ranked, stop peaking xD and you'll be fine. Don't run in a straight line, and don't stand still. I get how its played - more long range bunker down kinda thing, but that is where the ring will change that. So I don't think her ult is that broken.

I do understand about the passive. However, I think its worth it - for smoke. I have "targeted" people behind cover and such and I think that is a bit broken. But through smoke and caustic gas I think its fine. Just not behind trees and such like it currently does. Basically, it should be a mediocre digi threat sight. I say mediocre cause the "square" is too big to know exactly where the enemy is, you can guess and mostly get it, but I've missed a lot.
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@SolitaryMassacre
How is the ult a BIG risk reward? Its basically a Sentinel but higher rate of fire that can three shot a full red armor on body shots. It even comes with a built in team buff. The only "risk" is if you stand stationary and use it as binoculars but if you arent low elo or just very confused and have a hard time spotting things, you dont need that to spot enemies that are in relevant range anyways (relevant as in to be worth taking shots at).
I think thats the main issue with this legend. Her kit is top 3 in all its niches but with very little draw backs: Not the best and most versatile "flying" movement but probably the best if we just consider vertical movement and still top 3-4 overall. Not the best "wall hack", but still very good and "resource free" (no cds). In ranked, the ability to see how many living in the squad and therefore spot solo rats can be so good. And her ult is basically a free third gun; a free, buffed up Sentinel
SolitaryMassacr
4 years ago
@Balladalidila

Here's the risks:
- Using her ult immediately reveals your location
- Her ult will let you know if you're being aimed at
- Missing
- Extreme ADS slowdown
- Slow fire rate (if you hit someone with one shot, by the time you have rechambered the next round, they are most likely behind cover, if not, that is their fault and its not the ult that is op)

Rewards:
- Ult grants short damage buff for squad
- You "tag" them (not really that strong imo, I never know when my teammate tagged someone as I can't see it. Should be more like mad maggie's passive in highilighting the enemy)

I'm not against changes, but I don't think she's "broken and OP" like everyone claims.

And this whole "free third gun" argument is bs. If you want to go with that, then remove ramparts ult too. Nobody complains about that. Hell her ult can shoot through doors. * her ult is basically impossible to get away from.

Now, I could see some of the following changes to help balance this:
- Ult behaves just like ramparts: Cant use it until fully charged, must deplete fully before charging continues, make charging faster too then.
- Ult had reduced tag time (but maybe not, its not that bad)

I just don't see a huge problem with her. This game is not about playing it the same every time. Each legend needs to be dealt with differently. The second I see a laser from a vantage, I immediately find cover, run in a zig-zag random pattern, or honestly shoot back if I have a long range. I've knocked a vantage with my longbow/charge rifle already when she was using her ult. I took the first hit but knew I could get her before she had time to get off that second one. Yeah her squad didn't coordinate shots but that's their fault. Any squad that coordinates shots will always do better with or without a vantage legend on the team. If you keep dying to her ult, play differently.
Balladalidila
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@SolitaryMassacre
Lol you actually name "missing" and "ads slowdown" and "slow rate of fire" as "risks" which all just are basic properties of a sniper =) And honestly; your argument that calling her ult a third gun is "bs" is so strange. It IS a third gun and MUCH more so than Ramparts ult since you can literally take it out and holster it at will with just slightly longer ready-animation than other Snipers. How can you say otherwise? Yes, I would call Ramparts ult a third gun too but the difference is that the rest of Ramparts kit is balancing whatever advantages it is to have a third gun with the properties of Sheila. Thats why few complain about Ramparts ult. Its the balance of the entire kit that matters and right now, I think Vantage kits as a whole is a bit on the strong side since all her abilities are top 3 tier in its categories with little draw backs.
But lets agree to disagree.