I havent seen a cheater in a while now, at least 2-3 splits and the total number of cheaters since S3 can be counted on my fingers. But just out of curiosity; why do you assume that it was by a cheat only because you dont understand how a grenade landed close to you? Have you ever heard of a currently existing cheat that makes grenade go through walls, because I guess thats what you are saying. There are so many other possibilities that dont involve cheats. How do you even know it was the enemies behind the wall that threw it? It could have been a Fuse standing above you or from your flank, shooting them with pinpoint accuracy. It could have been a lucky lobbed grenade etc
I just dont get why everyone jumps to the conclusion about cheats every time something they dont fully understand happen to them. Thats why we need kill cam. If PUBG manage to recreate an entire match up to the point you died for 100 players on much bigger maps, then I think it isnt too much to ask of Respawn to do the same. The technology of recreation-based replays has been around since Quake =)
This game has pretty much turned into cheaters only smurphing. Every single "low level" (I'm meaning levels 1-55) are smruphs, with most being cheaters. Not to mention, because you /force/ cross-play on PC users, most of the time, we get these console players who are clearly using xim or strikepacks in the matches, and its either a high level console player /boosting/ a low level PC player, or both are low levels.
"About not seeing hackers... well man either you are semi-blind or you tolerate no-recoil as not a hack. "
Hehe I've heard this argument since the PUBG days, basically "you are just too bad to recognize a hacker when you see one" =) I dont think I can change or even affect your experience but all I can say is that this is my honest experience from playing on EU. I dont shy away from criticizing this game but when it comes to the cheating problem, I just dont share this opinion and I am truly sorry for your experience because it must pretty much ruin the game if you feel that many of your losses happen due to cheaters?
Whenever I get beamed or HSed on long range or whatever, I ask myself this very simple question: "Could I have, perhaps with some luck, done the same thing in this same situation?". And in 99.9% cases, the answer to this question is: yes. Because when I just look at it objectively, I 200-to-zero people left and right, especially in pubs or <Diamond ranked. I land crazy long rang wingman headshots with 1x cog, partly because I have practiced with it and have a good feeling for the bullet drop, but ofc also partly because of luck/randomness.
People talk about no recoil scripts, which I dont deny exist, but I just think people see no recoil script every time they get beamed by a good player. Truth is that within 1-20 meter where most knocks happens, the horizontal deviation from recoils with most autoweapons is so small that it wont affect the spray too much anyways. As long as you control the vertical recoil, you will dash out a good amount of dmg as long as you have a decent trace aim. And then we have the master/pred skilled players who actually spent hours and hours of practicing also the horizontal recoil patterns so OFC they will beam you, especially if you arent even close to master/pred level yourself. But if someone would do 150-200 dmg w one clip on very long range, like 50+ m, then I would be suspicious but that never happens to me!.. Sure, 50-100 dmg sometimes but again; can I do 100 dmg on 50 + w a R301 sometimes? And the answer is yes.
Just an example video from a game this morning where I do 150-200 dmg in one clip on three opponents in a row and would probably have done the same on the fourth if I have had more than 50 HP when I started to shoot. And I am NOT saying this was a out of the ordinary well played played situation, its just a very standard fight in pubs.
Or an older video of one clips from the S1 Kings canyon LTM..
@Balladalidilafor my game analysis and questioning situations - I do that as well, I record all my games most of the days (when I am trying actually to be as good as possible, have 100% focus, when I don't I skip recording as I know that I will make some mistakes).
Yet my conclusions after my video analysis remain the same - there is too much fishy, lucky, obviously dirty play going on.
I will not post videos now - I don't know how to blur people's names and honestly am to lazy to go learn and do that now just to prove the point.
Regarding Wingman - I am talking about cases where you see people on Diamond level who have 0 game sense e.g. one dude just dropped in front of me while I was running, there were almost no other sounds e.g. ambient of fights going on, dude just ran opposite direction but after I shot him in the back he turned around and 3 shot me with Wingman 136? damage. Luck maybe, but when such a thing happens multiple times per day no matter what you do, how you strafe and then you see those Youtube videos where Wingman bullets just "find" their targets as long as you are looking at least somewhat close to the enemy I personally start to question such shots. Would I bet my money on them...probably no, not yet. Would I do that after seeing this person's demo of the game remains to be answered. But I ain't a believer in those missing 2 then hit 5 in a row with 3 being headshots kind of scenarios. Doable - yes, doable on constant basis - hell no.
As for the recoil - the close range is out of the question, I agree with all the stated points. I call close range "dummy" and "controller player" distance as that's how most of those players play to win = just rush into your face.
Yet when e.g. one dude lasered me with R-99 first from ~75m during the crazy ongoing fight and then again after I was respawned from ~50m...well I would really like to see his demo and would actually bet my money on no recoil.
301 is out of the question, gun really has almost 0 recoil, when you get higher barrel mods it really seems like 0 recoil. So those shots are doable in my opinion even by quite an average person.
As for your 2nd clip... well there I would question couple of shots.
First the shot from low ground up with attachment-less Devotion (~0:25-0:30) - cursor just stayed wayyyy to steady for that shot. Plus you were not strafing (known thing to mitigate recoil)...initial kick of devotion was there but the rest of the spray was too steady in my opinion.
Also if you look later at ~0:50 when you shoot people on the stairs the cursor has again initial kick and then this floating which is typical Devotion behavior even when you try to control recoil. This shot is what I usually get, the previous one is fishy for me (not going into a pointless discussion into an argument do I think you hack or you hacked on one case but not the other - answer to that is if I would need to bet my money I would, if not I would spectate you more to draw further conclusions).
As for r-99 shots - doable, especially ones with purple barrel = makes R-99 close to R-301. Yet if you would spray people like that in mid-range (as you said 50+ m) constantly, I would pay attention to this type of shot. You can land some of the one mags with R-99 especially if you have attachments and use the gun on a regular basis, also while strafing, but if you would start doing that standing still and on regular basis without attachments I would question the skill.
Plus all these clips are from the public = potentially weaker, less skilled players, which makes one clipping easier.
Situations that do trigger my nerves are the ones when you play well on your good days in Diamond lobbies and you get shot like a nub by a similarly ranked (sub-master / ex master at most) level players.
Finally - what I see no recoilers usually use are L-star, Flatline, Havoc. If you can beam these 3 as well feel free to upload those clips and tips on how you do it 🙂
Here is an example of R-99 no recoil in my opinion - played with this dude yesterday, he had 0 teamwork, poor game awareness yet sure he did deal 2200 damage with 4-5 kills while I had like 1500 with 2+1 or something in P4 lobby (currently full of ex-diamonds).
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1162507212
And when I died and spectated him, sure no recoil was super obvious. I confronted him about the fact, dude clearly was not ready to answer my accusations, studdered some random arguments, eventually just said "yeah ok whatever".
In the end, dude pushed multiple enemies and died like a public newb cursing on me not teamworking even though I was the one left by him and another dude without cover fire while being pushed by a team of 3 over an open ground.
Hard to tell from this stream since he was lagging so much it dropped every 3 frames or so but sure, the little I saw he had very good control with the R99 for sure so I wouldn't bet money that he didnt have no recoil but not that he had it either . Because Ive watched a friend who has been Pred every season when he plays live, sitting next to him, and he constantly dishes out 60-100 dmg also with R99 on 30-50 meters. And I guess that was my point with my clips. Since you would question some of my sprays when I am not even close to be a Predator player, then I think people should at least accept the possibility that some players just are very, very good at this game. I can honestly think its a bit sad when I see people on this forum who barely can make it through Platinum through kill points and maybe managed to hide their way to Diamond hardstuck 7200 RP after a long grind and think they see no recoil scripts everywhere... They are not in a very good position to tell because they are so far below the top percentile of players.
But like I said in the beginning; I dont think any of us can change the others view on the subject of cheaters because in the end, it comes down to our subjective experience and I am just very happy that I personally rarely feel that fishy or dirty stuff going on. Thats my experience of playing this game on EU and if people feel that every lobby is full of cheaters and that I am too blind/stupid/bad to detect that, than its actually fine by me, because its not my loss=) If some of those I play against use no recoil scripts, I think its pathetic that they cant play by the rules but as long as people dont beam me from 70+ m with an R99, I dont really care. And like I said earlier; that pretty much never happens to me.
And btw, I actually spend a couple of seasons, maining the Flatline so I am quite proficient with that recoil pattern. Maybe I will upload some videos where I beam people with that too =)
@Balladalidilalooking forward to your clips with a flatline and the secret sauce behind your friend and how he reached predator level unless that boils down to a combination of:
- using controller
- using set party on constant basis
- daily grind
- exploit of the fact that some server, times during the day are less competitive
- I would assume he would tell if he would have used hacks 🙂 yet for the sake of argument will mention it here
Regarding Diamond = 7200 RP situation I am on the quest (maybe my last in Apex) to see if this gap between 7200 and 10000 can be closed with a simple addition of a set team of 3 and regular play.
I was grinding through Platinum lobbies in season 8 (my first in ranked), I did reach Diamond 4 super easy after teaming up with just one person whom we played with 6-8h a day, yet with the same person, we failed to do well in Diamond lobbies vs hither Diamond players, Masters, Predators, and other hackers.
So the only question for me at the moment - does it take 3 people to get to Masters or do you actually need software assistance after all.
Because on the one side we all lose a lot of points while playing with randoms - while adjusting to eachother, and this process repeats due to the fact that many players are not ready to adjust, look for teamwork, they want instant results, which in turn forces people to switch a lot and actually make them hardstuck as they are constantly losing points playing with people they don't know well.
On the other hand, those crazy kills are basically my daily experience when reaching Diamond lobbies later in splits...and you do lose quite many points because of being "lucky" to run into yet another sub 100 or even sub 50 level pro.
Time will tell, I will definitely post on forums my findings.
I think you misunderstood my point since you focus so much on the Diamond situation. I dont "shame" or look down on people who is stuck at Diamond4.. or Plat or Gold for that matter. What I mean was that its ridiculous and actually a bit narcissistic to think that most people better than you are better because they cheat. If you are hardstuck Diamond 4 player, you are a very good casual Apex player for sure but all I am saying is that there actually are alot of players that are MUCH MUCH better in every way.
But once again; its not really my loss if many players want to see cheaters and no-recoil scripters everywhere. Like you said it yourself; you thought that I had fishy recoil control so I guess some people might think I am a no recoil user, which I am not ofc, and that just proves my point. I personally just dont feel "cheated" very often when I play pubs or <Diamond ranked. But when I grinded through Diamond, I was outplayed many times and really had to rely on strategy and teamwork to gain RPs. But back to my argument: I have NO reason to believe that the main reason I was outplayed In Diamond3+ was because everyone cheated; that would be narcissistic and unfounded of me. It was usually because my opponents skill were equal or higher than mine.
@BalladalidilaI got your point yet you might have not gotten mine instead.
The long story short about Diamond 4 wall / hardstuck case of mine is such that somehow when crossing this borderline of P1->D4 I as a player (and in this case also my friend I played with as well as many more people I have teamed up more often than not) suddenly become newb(s).
By no means I am expecting to be the best around, I agree that I would classify at this point as an above-average casual player of Apex who plays on a regular basis, with an aim to win not "to just have fun" etc. Top 5-8% of the community or whatnot.
Based on the available data online rank distribution is usually ~25% of players in Platinum, 5-8% in Diamond, <1% in Master and Predator level.
So my expectation based on that when reaching Diamond would be that I still play mainly vs Diamond players (given 5-8% from 100 million? is still a huge player base), some Masters/Predators (mainly lower-ranked unless they are all offline and have massive lack of players to play against) and probably at least twice as much Platinum players than Masters/Predators.
What happens instead - yesterday I get into my 3rd game in Diamond and I face a set team of Predator #39, #35 and #293... plus there were many more in the lobby, this squad was just champs and without a much of a surprise also killed me thus I saw them twice in my screen.
And the overall lobby was 50% Master/Predator squads, yes with Masters dominating the majority of players but still... when I play Diamond I expect to play vs Diamond most of the time same as I do in Platinum not suddenly just leap 1.5 levels and be this one random Diamond dude in the community of top <1% players.
As for hacking when I spectate people who kill me:
- they are on the controller
- they have zero recoil 9 out of 10 times (I don't believe in miracles)
- they somehow know exactly the best angle of attack, prefire me quite constantly, start hitting me what feels like even before I duck out from cover (headglich I guess it is called)
Sure I see some players who display a skill set on a totally another level - rotation knowledge, movement, map knowledge etc. Many happen to also stream - I can rewatch those episodes from their point of view as well.
Yet when I do look at those streams what I see often is some kid (and I mean age-wise not "kid" like Apex slang = player who does not know what he is doing) running Diamond lobby talking about his hangover, badges, randoms stuff = lack of focus on the game, yet still somehow be 100% accurate on all of the above said, maintaining game sense, somehow he and his team are on the same page on what to do, where to go with close to none communication (related to the game not hangover and stuff).
When I see that in combination of perfect reoil "control", crazy shots etc. dude I just can't believe that is pure skill.
I have lived 36 years on this earth, I have worked with people, people management for ~15 of those years and I just know from that experience that there are a lot of common traits when it comes to humans e.g. if you drink often out of sorrow you will probably be very aggressive in turn if you have a wife you will beat her etc.
The same goes with hackers - here you are, upset player, about losing, then you start using one loophole e.g. dropping grenades from inventory when opening locked weapon boxes to save it, then you go to no-recoil because why not your aim is good enough already without it as well, then wh as you anyway know where people are or could play Bloodhoud/Seer and have that ability anyway...just fair right, then aimbot and so on.
Greed and core values of a person just take over and players like you mentioned of your friend who is Predator from the beginning of the game (if that is true and he is indeed not hacking, exploiting something) is a very rare exception same as those trusted friends you are with during the whole life or employee who spends 10+ years with the company not because it pays the most but because his values align with company's.
The entire Diamond discussion is ofc a bit non-topic, but just a short comment on that; Yeah I agree with that assessment; Diamonds start to fight preds and masters at some point. When I grinded out of Diamond three splits ago, it was around D2 or D3 but that might have changed. But if you just think about it logically, this is a necessity for the ranked balance! Because if ONLY Diamonds were matched against each other, from Diamond4 to Diamond 1, then the influx of Diamond players reaching Master would be unlimited! EVERY Diamond player would then eventually reach Master because such system would quite fast decrease the overall skill level of the Diamond division as the split goes on.
Just think about it: as the group of players, which currently are the "best" Diamonds, continuously reaches Master and therefore are removed from the Diamond-only queue, then the current "next best" diamond players now become the "new best" diamonds and the "average" diamonds become the new "next best" and the current "bad" diamonds become the new "average" and so forth. This mechanism already exist to some extent but since the current system forces players who want to reach master to actually having to prove that they can handle lobbies would increasingly numbers of masters as they get closer and closer to getting promoted, it at least reduces this mechanism. So the only thing your suggested system with Diamonds only fighting diamonds would just de-value what it is to be a Master which imo is a bad thing. The current rank system is easy enough. A player who struggles in fights in gold can still reach Diamond4 by just hiding and grinding.
But on the cheating topic, which this threat is about, I can once again just that I am sorry that you feel that way since it must be frustrating to feel that people use hacks to kill you. I honestly rarely feel that someone is winning over me because of dirty play. Why? Because in pretty much EVERY 1v1 I lose, I usually manage to do at least 75% dmg or more of his dmg dealt in return to that player. So if you think about it; how narcissists and sad would I be to start blaming every player who just is SLIGHTLY better than me to be a cheater? And if people want to call me blind or too bad to recognize the cheaters then its fine by me =)
@Balladalidilawell if you do 75% of the damage that is great, you probably have some skill, but then I am not sure why are you "just" d2/d3 not higher, because I reached D4 mid way while doing more like 75 DAMAGE to enemies in 1v1 in Diamond lobbies...and that is what is frustrating, as I lose:
1) initial shoot - they almost always preshot me first e.g. before-mentioned cases of head glitching and what felt like instant aimbot reaction time. <- easily achievable with aimobt or the most popular hack in Apex (as developers claim) that draws a big border around you, so the enemy can see which direction you are about to take even while being behind cover.
2) battle of accuracy - no recoil helps a lot here e.g. even if I land half a mag, the enemy usually lands the whole thing plus headshots on top of that e.g. I was in the open 1v1 vs Gibby, he had Volt and I had L-star and even shot first. While I landed <100 damage (he was not using shield) he landed 180 on me and knocked me of course. Again huge gap between what I experience in Plat vs Diamond lobbies.
3) in absolute majority of the cases I just get rushed by players who magically land 3 Eva or Wingman shots, above mentioned #39 predator did it in a room full of Caustic gas while I was doging and shooting back at him. Again wallhack and/or soft aimbot would be really helpful. Actually yesterday we even had a situation where a dude jumped on me and my mate (dude on Diamond jumped into 1 vs 2!!!!) hit him while looking at me, at least animation in game was like that, pity we did not record that. How we realized that - my mate who though he has clear shot on him died first even though he was behind me at an ~90 degree angle. And guess what - dude 3 shot us both with Eva while we landed ~120-130 on him combined. Makes you wonder.
I identify myself as a "Diamond4+" player because I CAN get out of Diamond 4 by myself but I dont see myself as a master player because the one split that I got to master I:
1) only played with the same two premades, both of them a bit better then me when it comes to fighting, not night and day better but still considerably better, With that being said, I think I had the best "game sense" of us three, like I was usually the one who knew where enemies where, based on previous fights we had heard, the new circle location and areas we just been to and cleared etc. But still, I know that I would never had got out of Diamond without them.
2) We really had to play tactically, like always looking for cheezy third parties where we tried to swoop in right after the fight was over or sometimes just get one or two knockdowns from far away and then change position/rotation and hope they would finish each other, giving us Kill points.
4) Because it took us pretty much the entire split to do this.
5) Simply because I know that I am more likely to lose vs a current Master or Pred. I will still usually do said "75%" dmg to them and I will ofc also sometimes win fair and square. But my overall experience is that I am just below the average Master player, skill wise.
But honestly, what you are describing is exactly what I experience but maybe just one or two ranks above your such rank... If what you described in 1), 2) and 3) start to happen to you in Diamond 4, then same things started to happen for me at maybe Diamond 3 or 2 (thats why I needed my premades and cheezy tactics to progress). And some other player, who is worse than both of us, maybe experience this in Plat2 etc etc. I still dont ubuy why this would be a proof of cheaters. Everyone has his individual "peak rank" where his individual skill isnt enough to progress further and need other variables in their favor to progress, like my premades for instance.
And btw, You mentioned that you get one clipped by L-star alot.. Its actually OP even after the nerf. I have not played with L-star much at all until this season but I can still manage to control in decent enough to one clip also on longer range. Here is a clip with the L-star on approx 30 meters with no attachments except mag. Its max dmg is 468 not counting HS so you only need to land less than 50% of the shots to one clip a red armor so imagine how OP it is in the hands of a Predator or just someone who practiced with it alot..
"I havent seen a cheater in a while now"
They are all playing Bloodhunt at the moment, they will be back. 😃
This company has proven it has NO IDEA how to deal with cheaters.
BF2042 in Beta the anticheat has already been beaten.
Would make another thread, but don't see the point, but I'm starting to feel like cheaters can also control the sounds they give off. A lot of the players I'm seeing use aimbot, aren't making any loud footsteps, and I don't hear their gun fire half the time.
Make some recordings of all these cheaters and we can have a civil conversation about something real instead of discussing what we "feel".
@Balladalidilaok in that sense then we are on the same page regarding ranking and difference between D4 and 10000 RP Masters. Well more or less on the same page.
As for the L-star - sure it was OP, especially after Respawn removed flashes so you can actually see what you are shooting at, and I like the weapon before given it is a familiar thing since I played Quake and there was a plasma gun which was basically no recoil version of L-star and also was good weapon of choice in mid/long range.
Yet your recoil control is somewhat amazing for me. Here is me now with the same setup: https://youtu.be/5WHVUaBG86U
As you can see close range is not a problem, yet not dead on as yours. But for me the frustration and the deal breaker is the recoil control in mid/long range that you can see in the end of my video. I can't control recoil well enough to hit even standing bots from the range, yet people in Diamond lobbies manage to hit me with it even when I am on the move, dodging...that's the mystery for me (unless that is a better or worse no-recoil macro) same as the question how on earth you manage to negate the initial kick of the L-star while maintaining your cursor almost pixel perfect????
I am glad we're starting to see eye to eye on many topics now, also on recoil. Because my point with the recoil videos was not some kind of hidden brag (ty for the compliment btw =) but to show that even a "diamond4+ but no real master"-player like me, who spend very little-to-no time to learn and practice the exact recoil patterns, can control even hard ones decently. So perhaps you at least can accept that some players, I would say 3-10 in every casual lobby, are just are crazy good at recoil control and trace aiming which is the reason they can do those crazy 30m+ m sprays etc. It doesnt have to be no-recoil scripters or soft/hard hackers all the time =)
But speaking of video clips as proof. I just recorded 4 consecutive causal games, 2 duos and 2 trios, just to show you what my games look like and to prove that at least I pretty much never see anything fishy going on at all. To be on the safe side, all names are censored, even if the purpose isnt to "name and shame" to begin with. But like @Midnight9746 said; the mods can be quite strict. If you have time (both of you) plz take a look and tell me if you can see anyone of those no recoil scripter and hackers. The match is sped up 10x during uneventful parts and only slows down when I actually fight someone.
And just to be clear; I know its only 4 games, but they are all in a row and I can only guarantee that THIS is pretty much what ALL my matches look like. You just have to take my word for it.
And also; my goal when I played these matches wasnt to win or to do good, but to expose all these cheaters you speak about. To do this I play quite aggressively, trying to force 1v1s trades and o take fights totally exposed out in the open etc. As you can see, no one is beaming me. In most 1v1s I do equal or greater damage. Even when I recklessly jump infront of two enemies, I manage to do considerable damage to one of them before they manage to kill me etc etc. Now maybe you can see why I dont understand this talk about "40% cheaters in every game" =)
But if you dont play pubs because you dont like to run into and die to the few 10-15 ex diamonds/masters in the lobby, then how can you say that there is an influx of hackers in Diamond lobbies since ALL of them are MINIMUM diamonds, but also many exmasters/expreds/current masters and preds? Sorry but this entire argument just doesnt make sense.. Once again; at Diamond I also agree that people are usually equally good or better than me, but to draw the conclusion that the reason for this is that many of them must be hacking is so strange. To say this, its like saying "I am at the peak skill of what a human being can reach; everyone who is better is probably cheating......" At diamond, you play against the top percentile of the players and in a situation where you would survive in pubs, due to the average lower skill level, you will now lose. Why? Because everyone in the Diamond lobby can dish out 100-200 dmg per mag instead of just one such player per squad on average in pubs.
I dont know how your way through Platinum looked like but this ranked system is actually quite badly designed. It is possible for a player of "gold fighting skills" to advance to through Platinum from just hiding and grinding because of the RP gain through placement in relation to the RP entry cost which still is quite low in Platinum. I honestly think your issue is that the average skill of the lobby takes a huge leap from Platinum1 to Diamond 4 which ofc requires a huge leap of your own skill to keep advancing once you get to D4.
Recoil control takes a lot of practice. When someone can 1 mag you it does not mean they are cheating. Even if you 1 mag an entire team. As example here I show what good recoil control looks like. Can even watch my hand as i control the recoil. This is how i perfect my aim. So when i see someone easily wipe my team i know dude is good or there could be cheating involved. I have been killed by some of the best and ive killed some of the best. Everyone is built differently. Some are just crazy good.
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