Re: Stop with the stupid hidden MMR!!!!!!!!

@ComicBookGuy2727 

Do you have anything that is proving use of EOMM. I mean in the one article it talks about info from 2016 in a 2018 article about a patent pending. Was the patent approved? Is it even being used? 

The framework is a 2019 thing and is just a framework. 

In all actuality I could really care less what they are using SBMM, MMR, Hidden MMR or EOMM. I have a life outside of gaming, I easily monitor what I spend on Apex which is about what I would pay for a game a year that I spend there. 

Either way more up to date data and hard evidence as to what system is being used or not is better than frameworks and a patent pending article.

Their are a lot of patents on things out there that are never used/made.   

@ComicBookGuy2727 

Yes and if you read this and have half of a brain, you will also quickly understand that this theory is not applicable for Apex. EOMM is used for 1v1 games where every game have three possible absolute results, win, loss, draw. EA obviously developed this for games like FIFA and MADDEN. People should really stop mentioning EOMM game theories with Apex because that just puts a big clueless sign over your heads. TRUST ME. Its impossible to use the results of the EOMM study in a game of 60 players in 20 teams where you have one winner and 59 losers.  

Ofc, the devs implement ways to maximize player retention in various ways, thats just normal for any game, BUT ITS NOT BASED ON EOMM! The only reason why people to this day still blabber about EOMM is because ONE article on Dexerto where they noticed that EA just filed a patent for EOMM algoritms and asked the question "do Apex use this?"; a typical click bait article with no proof what so ever. So once again; please read the study and then explain to me how the EOMM matchmaking algorithms could be used in BR game with 60 players.

@NerfMyAimPlz 

Right on, and thank you.

@ComicBookGuy2727It doesn’t surprise me nor makes me unpleasant it’s expected… I always knew theese systems aren’t for fair play but a way for devs to manipulate their playerbase…
But it doesn’t suit and fit the image that ea try’s to be, so much talk about human rights dignity fair play and all kind of other great words…yet they manipulate their playerbase and abuse human emotion for their gain.

it also doesn’t matter if they use sbmm or what ever, it’s the same result for the players. Sbmm is not fair and it never will be and it even can’t be. The only fair thing would be a truely 100% random matchmaking 

I'm only saying it looks like EOMM and not SBMM, because I'd get two "noobs" as teammates for several games in a row, (and by noobs, I mean they play like bots), and then after losing 10-20 times, I get good teammates where suddenly the enemy teams are playing just like how my randoms played like those 10-20 games prior, like bots.

That's EOMM.

It was trying to get me to think I gotta do better for 10-20 games in a row and then once I got better teammates and ended up with noob/bot level enemies, it was suppose to make me feel like I got better and to thus keep playing since I was on a killing spree and/or winning high.

That might work for other people, however I'm quite aware that I'm in ALGs pred level lobbies then get put into a "bot lobby" before being thrown back into the ALGs pred lobby just for winning a match, so its just not fun.

@Midnight9746 

I think you are right in your assessment.

Please try the following experiment: leave the dropship about five times in a row and return to the lobby. And then observe your opponents in the following round (which you then actually play). What level they have and whether they are actually weaker. See here: Apex Legends S18: The Secret to Getting into Easy Lobbies Revealed! 

Of course, this is only meant to gain knowledge and to find out if the MM is practically only based on the survived time of a player.

If the MM can be influenced by this, then that's pretty weak of the developers.

@saurerDropsXXL I've already did this back in S16 when me and a friend had "play 10 times as this legend" challenges. We qued up into duos and kept throwing ourselves off the map and on the 11th game, we played as our mains for real and all the enemies were low leveled accounts running into walls, randomly stopping midfight to stand there, AFK, etc.

In short, considering that matchmaking has gotten worse since S16, its safe to assume this system has gotten worse as it puts more emphasis on EOMM.

The hidden MMR had one goal, just one, which was to give weight to a player's skill to then accurately adjust them in the matchmaking to ensure even and fair fights. Instead, its being used to see which teammates a player should get and who to go up against to insure a predetermined win or loss.

This is observable by the fact that we get teammates who can't even do 100-300 damage, they die first in any fight, and then after losing matches too many times due to teammates, we get teammates who suddenly know what they're doing and in most cases, they do more damage than us, and we end up winning or getting closer to winning games.

Edited 1: I understand that ranks no longer "represent skills", however why did I get a Rookie I player at all? They had no gun skills or game awareness and was mainly looting when a fight was starting to occur. The Valkyrie wasn't too great either, but they tried at least. It was harder for Valkyrie and me to really do anything when the team we died to had a Revenant using aimbot, (he beamed all 3 of us while their two teammates were running around like how the Bangalore random was).

The next game gave me a Gold IV and Gold III teammates, they were better then the last two teammates. While the first team we ran into had a Mirage acting like a new player, an Octane pushing too far out from the team, and a Seer unaware of their surroundings. This match was lost on our 3rd fight, as there was a pred player who gunned us all down.

Edited 2: The next game after the two golds, I had actual decent players. Enemy teams were still a challenge to fight, although some were just bad and stood there while firing their guns, however we won that match, then the next game, I died to a level 51 aimbotter.

How is this even SBMM?

@Midnight9746
Ah, ok. Well, then I ask the question again here: won't or can't they (the devs) do better?

If they really did it for the benefit of the players (or their "fun" in the rounds), as they always say, then they have become extremely incompetent in their job. If this game experience, which has been described here so many times in the forum, is desired and the MM works exactly as thought, then the developers are lying to the broad mass of average players.

Why?

Because the mass complaining in the forum brings nothing, it is actually clear what the players should do. Only in this way could an improvement occur at least in the medium term. But unfortunately, this realization has not yet reached the last frustrated players, because in the Steam charts of Apex Legends (my only source on player numbers) I still do not see a sharp bend downwards.

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@saurerDropsXXL wrote:

@Midnight9746 

I think you are right in your assessment.

Please try the following experiment: leave the dropship about five times in a row and return to the lobby. And then observe your opponents in the following round (which you then actually play). What level they have and whether they are actually weaker. See here: Apex Legends S18: The Secret to Getting into Easy Lobbies Revealed! 

Of course, this is only meant to gain knowledge and to find out if the MM is practically only based on the survived time of a player.

If the MM can be influenced by this, then that's pretty weak of the developers.

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For arguments sake you are suggesting, sabotaging another's game experience to see if what you do will give you different lobbies. That's a quick way to getting reported. 

Yeah, very unfortunate. 

@drevinum9 👍🙌

@Midnight9746 

Well, even if I agree that the MM isnt designed to put 60 players of equal skill in terms of shooting, moving, reading the map etc together, which most of us would define as a "good" SBMM, I STRONGLY disagree with your assessment of the MM. Your fundamental mistake in your assessment is that you only base it on YOUR experience, but totally forget that the same rules must apply for EVERY OTHER PLAYER OF ALL SKILLS in the matchmaking queue. This makes your theory logically impossible.

How can a MM system logically be designed to put every player pressing FIND MATCH, from the noobiest noob to ALGS pros, with two significantly worse players against 57 significantly better opponents for "10-20" matches, and then put them in the next match in a lobby with 57 significantly worse opponents with two significantly better teammates? I dont know if you studies any type of programming or just understand mathematical logic but you must realize that this would be IMPOSSIBLE unless you have an unlimited active player pool of players at all skill levels.  You dont appear like an idiot so  just give it some thought and I am sure you will realize that this cant be the case, from a mathematical POV. 

And when you say "thats EOMM", then I am afraid you are just plain wrong. We must just acknowledge that EOMM refers to a type of game MM algorithm, derived and patented by EA. Its not a general broad term for "a matchmaking that makes you lose by design and then lets you win".  But anyhow; this is the last time I will say anything on the subject. If people wanna keep refering to EOMM then I couldnt care less. But then dont complain that Respawn doesnt care what is being said here. Why would they listen to blabbering fools?

Good points you have there, however looking at things from your point of view it makes me think more about bot accounts.

A lot of players report seeing Lifelines and Bangalores all landing in the same spot and not moving. That's because there's players who run multiple instances of the game just to level up the accounts to then use them to cheat in rank.

Even if we ignore the bots put in by cheaters, Respawn has their own bots in the game. These bots are supposed to be in the orientation matches, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're placed in normal matches.

Although a lot of bot looking players have badges and stats, some of which that I've seen were over level 500, however its not hard to equip fake stats onto a bot account and then throw that bot into a match. Which bots in games, (such as NPCs in Skyrim), are good enough to follow players, pick things up, etc. but the bots/NPCs lack things such as common sense.

In short, (from what I'm understanding and seeing), everyone has good and bad games due to bots being present in the match as well as the hidden MMR and it being EOMM based.

There's definitely more things to consider, look into, and test.

@drevinum9 

It is a team based game. Find a team. Not all that hard?

The reports system works fine. 

@garethwaller 

Yes I am a volunteer. At least you got that right.

However I do criticize the game at times as well.

I for one do not like the current state of the ranked system this season and last season. It is really messed up and needs fixing. Last season was a cake walk and anyone could Make Rank by basically doing nothing and this season the tightened the points down to much and you get next to nothing. I would love to see a revert to Season 13 or so RP point system. 

As for deflecting problems to the player base if you complain about having Randoms on your team that are not to your liking the easiest way to fix this is through self action. Find a team you can play with.  

@Midnight9746 

Oh you mean bots literally and not just bad players? Oh well, Ive seen a couple of actual bots in a couple of ranked games but I cant say its a huge problem. Sad part is that you actually can get to like diamond by just afk script, thts how broken this ranked system is.

Btw just returned to this game after a long break... What a mess ranked mode is haha. Respawn literally broke their own game. Every former hardstuck platinum have a master diving trail now haha.