i always saw this game as a kill or get killed game, like Quake, that's what i love about it, very intense fights, but now on plat, everyone is just camping because of those points you get from top 1/3/9, from winning i can agree with extra points, but top 3 and top 9 ... nobody cares(but it forces you to) ...you can replace it with i dunno, assist give you 0.3 points(because let's be honest you get a lot of ks) and damage done 0.1% as points (1000damage = 1 points) this is promoting fight and teamplay in a shooting game wow such gameplay 10/10 instead of being a giant hide and seek.and this kill cap is just ridiculous, please.

@J0W_OW It's because they want to reward trap setter play styles that don't typically rack up high amounts of kills during a match, as they are camping a building. However capping kill rp and giving nothing for dealing damage is annoying. I believe they are doing this to artificially shift players towards using trap characters, as they want them to be viable and popular (Wattson especially, as she is the legend season 2 is centered around). I think that's fine, but not at the expense of neutering aggressive playstyles, which is what the ranked system is currently set up to do.

The RP system should not promote camping for pushing the meta in the way devs/ea wants to, a system have to be as neutral as possible, it doesn't matter if the character is currently bad/unplayable, just patch it later, we already have a good game without it and it makes it funnier when the character is brought back. That's how you are supposed to shift a meta.I'm really disappointed from Respawn who said "we won't update as frequently as fortnite, we want quality content", season 1 was bad, season 2 looks slightly better, Elite was a test, how can you chill that much and not delivering quality content.I'm fine with daily patches, i'm even fine with one patch per year as long as the game is polished.Each patchs brings errors/ bad tweaking/balance issue, you showed us you can solve it with weapons changes (plz nerf disruptor but that's all), keep it on with the rest of the game, the faster you do this the faster you can compete with fortnite and grab tons of money.It feels like you gave up and doing it halfway.The game is now 6 month old and still a lot to polish, you saw the hype it made, get some ea backup i don't know DO SOMETHING.I also think getting RP based from the XP you got might be the best solution.

@J0W_OWa... because idk... is a survival game?but i agree about get RP by doing dmg

@WHITEyy6969 The devs had to know that this was going to cause camping, as elite was essentially just late beta testing to iron out ranked mode. The circle damage, encouraging camping with the elite streaks, that all to see how ranked would operate. Like I said I have no problem with campy trap setter play styles or rewarding that playstyle. But even the most naive dev would realize that capping the kill rp would shift everyone's play style towards what currently gains you the most rp consistently: staying alive and camping. If there was no cap, then it would allow both play styles equal opportunity to shine...Which is why there is a cap. They are influencing the meta to popularize trap characters and to ensure that Wattson wouldn't be a barely played, low tier failure at launch. Having no cap is the obvious solution you are looking for, but they are afraid it will shift everyone back to the thirsty three, Lifeline, Wraith, Pathfinder (who coincidentally all got nerfed).

Why promoting camping | EA Forums

22 Replies

NNeil6991
7 years ago
@J0W_OW It's because they want to reward trap setter play styles that don't typically rack up high amounts of kills during a match, as they are camping a building. However capping kill rp and giving nothing for dealing damage is annoying. I believe they are doing this to artificially shift players towards using trap characters, as they want them to be viable and popular (Wattson especially, as she is the legend season 2 is centered around). I think that's fine, but not at the expense of neutering aggressive playstyles, which is what the ranked system is currently set up to do.
WHITEyy6969
7 years ago
@NNeil6991 Im not going to say you're wrong because we just don't know but I would like to think that's not the case. I think this is more of an unexpected outcome of the RP points system.

Within reason why wouldn't you provide some sort of bonus for surviving longer? Top 10, top 5 etc. The developers weren't to know it would swing so far this way. Similarly like you wouldn't have thought people would camp in Apex elite, but they did.

Moving forward I do hope the team are indeed looking into this but unless there is an obvious solution it will stay as it is. Obviously lots of solutions are being thrown around and it has probably been mentioned before but why not instead of giving RP for placement if they give RP dependent on the XP gained from the match (minus the kills of course)?

I'm sure some kind of calculation can be formulated to reward RP based on the XP gained which looks at all manor of gameplay: damage, revive, respawn, time survived, kill leader but leave off kills (already rewarded separately) playing with friends and killed champion (is a lottery really).
TheJumpingJawa
Seasoned Ace
7 years ago
I was thinking about this today; here's what I came up with.
Rather than having all the RP weighted towards the end of the match, attach some RP to minor objective(s) during each ring.
Randomly placed "capture & hold" points that reward 1 RP when held for ~60, or "collect & deliver".
Basically import some of the concepts behind 'King of the Hill' or 'Capture the Flag' game modes.
These would create positions of contention on the map that would be worth contesting; rather than punishing camping, you'd be reward those who seek combat.
It might also create a more interesting meta; requiring more diverse class choices; aggressive to capture, defensive to hold, evasive to withdraw afterwards without dying.
Vdstrk
Seasoned Ace
7 years ago
@WHITEyy6969
I believe all the changes were intended to produce an environment promoting camping, and the use of characters such as Caustic, Gibraltar, and Watson.
With the ranked system taking into account placements, camping is definitely the outcome desired.
I believe that in ranked damage should be rewarded instead of placements and kills.
WHITEyy6969
7 years ago
@Vdstrk While you make a valid point and that it does make sense I still have to disagree. Doesn't mean to say you're wrong though.

In regards to rewarding RP on placement, it's a BR. Why wouldn't you? The idea is to survive the longest.

As for rewarding damage this has been discussed on multiple threads and I side with those that say it's too easy to farm damage and will go totally the opposite way and even before the first ring half of the server will be dead.
Vdstrk
Seasoned Ace
7 years ago
@WHITEyy6969
Sure, I respect your position.
I disagree with the fact that farming damage is as easy as farming kills. I often enough see people with a few kills and maybe 150/200 max damage. How? Easy. They wait for their team mates to either reload, or for them to heal and jump in preying on the player weakened and score a kill. They are kill stealers specializing in just doing that.

To answer your question about why not rewarding placements? I have a better question, why rewarding them?
More specifically, because it is a BR, the goal is to be THE last surviving team. Everyone else won't matter at the end.
NNeil6991
7 years ago
@WHITEyy6969 The devs had to know that this was going to cause camping, as elite was essentially just late beta testing to iron out ranked mode. The circle damage, encouraging camping with the elite streaks, that all to see how ranked would operate. Like I said I have no problem with campy trap setter play styles or rewarding that playstyle. But even the most naive dev would realize that capping the kill rp would shift everyone's play style towards what currently gains you the most rp consistently: staying alive and camping. If there was no cap, then it would allow both play styles equal opportunity to shine...Which is why there is a cap. They are influencing the meta to popularize trap characters and to ensure that Wattson wouldn't be a barely played, low tier failure at launch. Having no cap is the obvious solution you are looking for, but they are afraid it will shift everyone back to the thirsty three, Lifeline, Wraith, Pathfinder (who coincidentally all got nerfed).
Vdstrk
Seasoned Ace
7 years ago
@NNeil6991
I agree with you. It is a clear attempt at making other characters viable.
I dislike the way they are going about it, as to me camping is boring, but this is just personal preference.
While much more radical, and probably a measure that could make people frown a bit, I would have preferred that certain legends would have been retired, in favor of other legends that would have kept the "Apex Style" alive --again personal opinion.
NNeil6991
7 years ago
@Vdstrk I think they are actually doing a good job making characters viable instead of putting them in the grave. Caustic has gotten great buffs, Bloodhound's buffed tactical is very useful, and Mirage's ultimate is great (Gibby is still trash, but there is only so much mortal men can do). I just wish they would allow us the freedom to choose how we want to play the game instead of forcing a specific meta down our throats.
WHITEyy6969
7 years ago
@Vdstrk @NNeil6991 Sure, perhaps you are correct and it is was they wanted but I for one hope that's not the case. Surely there were, and are, other ways to make the defensive (not campy) legends more viable.

As for learning from Apex Elite all I would say to counter that is do you think the developers and EA are really that quick? I don't believe they would be able to anyalze half of the data that they obtained from the Elite queue before ranked came into play. I wouldn't argue that it was a so called beta though but again more than likely to test multiple queues, player count and the basic stats.

The biggest problem here is just the one scoring system (RP) but multiple ways to earn it. Don't limit it and people will just play game after game in quick succession looking for the most kills and never win it. Not an issue to some but if your solo and your squad are running into every battle when you are more conservative then there's the issue. But on the flip limit it and then only allow for more RP for placement people will camp after 5 kills.

I still think there are other ways around it and kills and placement should be rewarded differently for a start.