Re: Aim Assist Pred Ranked Imbalance is now Over 85%

Zer0 is an IGL, underperformed to his team mates in ALGS 2023 (image attached).

You can also see R5 data on this topic (attached). MNK is not a viable input at the pro level, or the casual level. There is a graveyard of tier-1 professional players who have been fired and replaced with controller who can attest to this.

@VersusGravity  Please note: This discussion started as pro player controller aim assist. Not the daily rant on casual aim assist. 
I have another analogy. Remember when in swimming everyone was wearing those full body suits? And then they banned them because pretty much every record got obliterated? 
Why was every record breaking competitive swimmer wearing one? Pro *anything* should always have the best possible equipment for whatever they are doing. 

"Bottom line, it's about selling cosmetics to casual gamers. It's not about being fair, or competitive, it's about selling crap."
Agreed. US is the biggest controller market. US is also the biggest country in terms of player numbers of roughly 40%. Next up is UK with around 7%. 
Why would EA kill the milking cow? Is there a money making market for MnK Assetto Corsa? Not really so it doesnt really work out. 

Funny sidenote: Last nights the infamous hacker destroyer2009 hacked TSM ImperialHal during ALGS regional finals who then continued to play with 100% aimbot but couldnt tell if he had aimbot on or not because he is so accustomed to short range one clips on his controller 😃

@Airish85Mouse IS the Pro equipment. You keep giving examples of tools that are better for the job, but not given artificial assistance. If mouse players were given the same amount of assist as controller players, then what device do you think pros would pick for tournaments? You'd never see a Controller used if that was the case.

None of us are Pros here, and I think the OP was outlining how Controller are out performing Mice at the top level. These forums are for the regular players.

@VersusGravity Wasnt the body suit "artificial assistance"? With olympics its different as its not organized by a stock company with shareholders insisting on profits. 
Apex is just not that game. You need to accept that or switch to another game with no aim-assist. 

I personally play MnK because thats how I want to play. For me Apex was never about competition. 

Cant even do any of that movement magic 😃

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@Airish85 wrote:

@VersusGravity Wasnt the body suit "artificial assistance"? With olympics its different as its not organized by a stock company with shareholders insisting on profits. 
Apex is just not that game. You need to accept that or switch to another game with no aim-assist. 

I personally play MnK because thats how I want to play. For me Apex was never about competition. 

Cant even do any of that movement magic 😃

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I don't understand your stance on this at all. I think that you are confused. You're a MnK player, yet defend the over tuned assist. Just weird.

Apex is my game as much it is anyone else's. They can tune the assist. It can be done. Literally changing a value within the code... Plus, every game is trending that way. It's a self perpetuating thing. If games are made easier to aim with Controllers, what's the incentive for people to get better with a mouse? I have friends that use both, but ultimately end up on Controller just because it's easier to be consistent. Then you have the issue of aim assist locking onto hit boxes, not character models, freeing up mental capacity, and not nearly as effected by visual clutter.

Your analogies aren't getting any better btw. Mine was spot on. Inferior input given assist to out perform what should be the optimal equipment for the job. Take away the assist, which is better for shooters? Pretty easy stuff.

PC shouldn't have assist in shooters. You want to be in the top ranking of a shooter on PC, then you should have to pick up MnK. Simple as that.

@Airish85
Your logic is such a mess.
Olympics is when all athletes start under the same conditions and show off their skills, and in this case, people with completely different conditions are grouped together.

To compare to baseball, left-handed hitters can use metal bats, and right-handed hitters have to use only wooden bats.
Would it be acceptable if this happened in real?

And it's not a competition for you, but it's basically a competition game. And the genre of battle royale, and the reason why rank exists is to compete.
And people want "fairness" for competition. They want to be free from factors that harm fairness, including boosting, Abusing, and Cheating. So is Aim assist. It's considered a factor that can hurt fairness enough from the perspective of KnM players. In fact, not only KnM, but each other is bound to be unfair in some way, regardless of which side is advantageous. How can there be fairness between them when it's a different environment from the start?

I'm also a KnM user and can't use tap-strapping or various movement techniques. However, I believe I can compete with higher opponents through my character's skills, positioning, and aiming training, so I keep playing this game. but Pad's aim assist makes them meaningless. that's too much powerful to deal with on them. that's too much.
If that's the appropriate level, why would anyone abandon the familiar KnM and switch to Pad? Even the pros.

@ratherplayfinals 

"To compare to baseball, left-handed hitters can use metal bats, and right-handed hitters have to use only wooden bats.
Would it be acceptable if this happened in real?"

You are saying it like someone is not allowing you to switch to controller? If its superior then why not use it?
This is how every athlete would see it. 

Bold of you to assume I would care of how I rank when playing Apex.
Playing cards with your kids is a competitive game if you play it like that. At the same time I can play Apex casually. 

"why would anyone abandon the familiar KnM and switch to Pad?"
This where you go off tracks and probably is the reason why you are so persistent on this discussion. How does the kids born after 2000 get into gaming? Through consoles that cost couple hundread bucks. You cant even get proper gaming monitor with the same money. And consoles you play with controller.

So there is no abandoning the familiar KnM for Apex target audience. You are just coming from different background.

Future is now. Old MnK geezers like me are not the ones buying cosmetics.
I get where you are going and input based lobbies would be cool but Apex doesnt really have the player numbers for that. 

@VersusGravity I am not defending aim assist. I am stating the obvious. 
They are never going to nerf controller aim assist as it would be stupid business move. And business is what they care about.

@ratherplayfinalsI greatly sympathize with you... AA is too strong.

Just like NA's pro players use controllers around them, Japanese pro players also have a lot of controller players. Korean players use MnK more than controllers, and so do I. That's why I often feel down...

I recently saw AA's undue strength at the Korea-China-Japan e-sports competition and the Asia Festival. The Japanese team, which won the first place in the team death match, was mainly composed of control users, unlike the Korean and Chinese teams. And after the match, when the host asked one of the Japanese players about the winning factor in an interview, the Japanese player answered, "Difference in devices." As an MnK player, I was so frustrated to hear that...

And in this situation, the advocacy for AA is frankly ridiculous.

Sorry dude not replying to yourself specifically rather the entire thread. I've simply hit reply on the last message. 

So I can play both. But I get insane left hand pain playing kbm so I use the roller. 

Honestly I know your all looking at up close fights. Roller js DOG at mid to long lol. I consistently get less damage on roller. Only occasionally it feels like AA is doing anything. 

I recently tried districts ALC settings you can find it on YT and guess what. Target compensation turned OFF. I tried it skeptically and my damage increased 😂. 

You can debate this to high end and we're all entitled and opinion on the matter but there is no solution. If you removed AA for everyone then that would be beyond unacceptable.

Roller would be trash up close. Mid and long and also can't tap strafe move while loot etc. 

While mouse would be dominant. 

Roller is good up close and that's it. 

Mouse has loads more benefits. 

I spent hours trying to find a way where I could have like a roller in my left hand or some sort of analog and a mouse in the other. 

If I had the choice id olay Kbm all day. 

Also as for comps being 85pc roller if that is even true. What's the solution there? 

Can play comp if on roller? 

Can but have to have AA turned off? 

Also those dudes may look like it's AA doing the work but can assure you it's them. Plug a roller in and play all day everyday you won't get near their level. 

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@mitsubullet wrote:

Also as for comps being 85pc roller if that is even true. What's the solution there? 

Can play comp if on roller? 

Can but have to have AA turned off? 

Also those dudes may look like it's AA doing the work but can assure you it's them. Plug a roller in and play all day everyday you won't get near their level. 

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There's plenty of video's of high level players turning off their aim assist and then struggling big time. Of course assist is doing something!

Positioning, game sense/awareness, knowing the mechanics of the game are all important. So, they'll do decently just because of that, but they'll also get a lot less kills and damage overall when turning the assist off.

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@mitsubullet wrote:

Sorry dude not replying to yourself specifically rather the entire thread. I've simply hit reply on the last message. 

So I can play both. But I get insane left hand pain playing kbm so I use the roller. 

Honestly I know your all looking at up close fights. Roller js DOG at mid to long lol. I consistently get less damage on roller. Only occasionally it feels like AA is doing anything. 

I recently tried districts ALC settings you can find it on YT and guess what. Target compensation turned OFF. I tried it skeptically and my damage increased 😂. 

You can debate this to high end and we're all entitled and opinion on the matter but there is no solution. If you removed AA for everyone then that would be beyond unacceptable.

Roller would be trash up close. Mid and long and also can't tap strafe move while loot etc. 

While mouse would be dominant. 

Roller is good up close and that's it. 

Mouse has loads more benefits. 

I spent hours trying to find a way where I could have like a roller in my left hand or some sort of analog and a mouse in the other. 

If I had the choice id olay Kbm all day. 

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Lot's of options out there for keyboards and one handed joysticks. There's keyboards that you can tent. Do you use a wrist rest with a keyboard? Keep your elbows at 90 degrees to the table. Your desk could also be too high, most people's desk are too high. The standard height for desk are typically way too high. Maybe none of this applies to you specifically, but there's a lot of ways to relieve stress if you truly are interested in playing with a keyboard and mouse. Lot's of options for keyboards and gamepads as well. You can even find special keyboards/joysticks made for disabled people. They can be a bit expensive though. You could even use a Xim with a mixed input setup.

No one is arguing that Aim assist should be completely removed, although, that would be the fair thing to do. What people are generally asking for, is for the amount of assist to be turned down a bit. Controllers don't miss up close. A lot of fights happen up close in this game in close quarters, so it is kind of a big deal.

Some of the biggest issues with Assist is that you don't have to worry about visual clutter nearly as much. On mouse, it can be really hard to see a lot of times with all the damn particle effects. Watching roller players, it's like tab targeting up close lol. I want to aim at this guy, okay locked on, now I don't have to worry about tracking anymore.

When Controllers are preferred over MnK, especially at the Pro levels, you know that it's been over-tuned. Not sure how anyone can argue against that. What would be the superior device gets taken over by something just because it's given a ton of assist in order to do so.