Regarding PS4 version shotgun underutilization, AR and SMG hip fire strength.

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@soraoka623 wrote:

I'm a apex player in the PS4 version. I think the PS4 version has too weak a shotgun. I don't think the shotgun's performance is a problem. However, since the carSMG and flatline will kill you with one magazine, there is no chance to shoot two shotguns. Shotgun usage is obviously low in the CS version. This narrows the player's weapon selection. If you look at the apex clip, you can see that even master players don't try to match the right stick aim point on the opponent, but AR and SMG hip fire hit almost all bullets. Also, the elements I mentioned show that close range combat is short-lived, and these are tedious elements. Also, the inability to retrieve shotgun ammo from deathboxes is a problem. Thank you for reading this long article. I hope there will be adjustments such as 0.4 aim assist in the CS version. This issue is dictated by the CS version shotgun usage rate.

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While I can't speak to Ar and SMG hipfire cause I am terrible at remembering to hipfire anything, I can speak to shotguns.

One of the things I really like about Apex as a guy who owns multiple guns and regularly shoots at the range in real life, is that Apex shotguns (other than the perfectly regular patterns or the "line" pattern of the Mastiff, more on those later) is that the designers actually did some research into how real shotguns (and the concept of "choke") works.

As such, it's not just a "point left and everything within 5 meters dies" weapon like every other game that gets shotguns wrong. Like real life, shot has an optimal range of 20-25 meters, but is still viable up to 70 meters with a good aim (more notable with the Mozam, which has a real tight choke and the Peacekeeper if you let the aimed choke hit max before firing).

Now, as for hipfire, you are likely used to the super wide and very random pattern of shot in most other shooters. Apex doesn't do they. They keep a tighter pattern (like I said, more like real life, where you actually do have to aim shotguns( 1 ) ).

What they didn't do accurate, and I expect this made the coding and longer range easier to make work, is shotgun patterning. Shot has different patterns from the same gun depending on choke, shot size, and even the manufacturer (my Mossberg hates Remington ammo for example, likes to "shoot donuts" with their #7 shot). For Apex though, each shotgun has a unique pattern and a magic future tech choke that goes from cylinder to full when aiming. You can find youtube videos on it, but if you just want to read about it, you can find info at the fan wiki here: 

https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon#Shotguns 

Each shotgun has it's own pattern, but to sum up:

Eva-8 - Is, well, 8 pellets in a figure 8 pattern. Aim center mass at about 20 meters and I usually hit legs, body, and one pellet to the head. Too close, and it's all body. Too far and it's just a few to body while rest goes over their head and then they one clip me with a R-99.

Peacekeeper-- kinda like a star pattern with 11 pellets. When aimed, it slowly chokes up to max choke. A center mass hit with max choke will often do about 91 damage. Manage a head shot and it can be instant knock. But if you're off just a bit, it's just as likely to be 9 damage from one pellet hitting. This might be the best for hip firing.

Mozambique- This is 3 pellets only (I actually imagine it less as pellets as more as firing 3 .410 slugs at the same time). In a triangle formation, 1 top 2 bottom (part of the name background). This is the only shotgun that when aimed (which pulls in the choke a little) can land all the pellets in the head. Headshots with Hammerpoints can be brutal. I actually prefer a Mozam over the Wingman just because I can hit with this at about the same ranges and ammo is easier to find mid to late game.

Mastiff ( 2 ) - this has the weirdest choke. It's literally a horizontal line of 8 pellets. The line is wider hipfired, the choke constricts when aimed. A headshot can be brutal (I usually see about 88 damage with a headshot by the time in late game when you can find these in care packages currently).

I recommend trying each shotgun out at the firing range. Shoot a wall to see the pattern, then shoot another wall while aiming to see how it constricts. Get used to shooting speed and reload times. They are a great option to open a fight (then swap to a proper bullet gun) or close a fight after cracking the armor with an auto gun.

As a side note, I would really like to see them add a Slug Shotgun (call it "The Breacher") that has one big slug for high damage at short to mid range (15-50 meters) and can shatter open the doors in one shot. Also, cause the only other game that uses Slug Shotguns a lot is Destiny 2.

1) Don't believe me, go find a trap range that can rent you a shotgun and shoot 25 rounds and see how low your hit rate is until you get the hang of it. I have been shooting trap for 4 years and only recently broke 20/25.

2) I personally love this shotgun for the reload animations alone, which as a semi-auto recoil operated shotgun, is different based on if you are topping off or full empty. Try it at the firing range.

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@soraoka623 wrote:

I'm a apex player in the PS4 version. I think the PS4 version has too weak a shotgun. I don't think the shotgun's performance is a problem. However, since the carSMG and flatline will kill you with one magazine, there is no chance to shoot two shotguns. Shotgun usage is obviously low in the CS version. This narrows the player's weapon selection. If you look at the apex clip, you can see that even master players don't try to match the right stick aim point on the opponent, but AR and SMG hip fire hit almost all bullets. Also, the elements I mentioned show that close range combat is short-lived, and these are tedious elements. Also, the inability to retrieve shotgun ammo from deathboxes is a problem. Thank you for reading this long article. I hope there will be adjustments such as 0.4 aim assist in the CS version. This issue is dictated by the CS version shotgun usage rate.

---

While I can't speak to Ar and SMG hipfire cause I am terrible at remembering to hipfire anything, I can speak to shotguns.

One of the things I really like about Apex as a guy who owns multiple guns and regularly shoots at the range in real life, is that Apex shotguns (other than the perfectly regular patterns or the "line" pattern of the Mastiff, more on those later) is that the designers actually did some research into how real shotguns (and the concept of "choke") works.

As such, it's not just a "point left and everything within 5 meters dies" weapon like every other game that gets shotguns wrong. Like real life, shot has an optimal range of 20-25 meters, but is still viable up to 70 meters with a good aim (more notable with the Mozam, which has a real tight choke and the Peacekeeper if you let the aimed choke hit max before firing).

Now, as for hipfire, you are likely used to the super wide and very random pattern of shot in most other shooters. Apex doesn't do they. They keep a tighter pattern (like I said, more like real life, where you actually do have to aim shotguns( 1 ) ).

What they didn't do accurate, and I expect this made the coding and longer range easier to make work, is shotgun patterning. Shot has different patterns from the same gun depending on choke, shot size, and even the manufacturer (my Mossberg hates Remington ammo for example, likes to "shoot donuts" with their #7 shot). For Apex though, each shotgun has a unique pattern and a magic future tech choke that goes from cylinder to full when aiming. You can find youtube videos on it, but if you just want to read about it, you can find info at the fan wiki here: 

https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon#Shotguns 

Each shotgun has it's own pattern, but to sum up:

Eva-8 - Is, well, 8 pellets in a figure 8 pattern. Aim center mass at about 20 meters and I usually hit legs, body, and one pellet to the head. Too close, and it's all body. Too far and it's just a few to body while rest goes over their head and then they one clip me with a R-99.

Peacekeeper-- kinda like a star pattern with 11 pellets. When aimed, it slowly chokes up to max choke. A center mass hit with max choke will often do about 91 damage. Manage a head shot and it can be instant knock. But if you're off just a bit, it's just as likely to be 9 damage from one pellet hitting. This might be the best for hip firing.

Mozambique- This is 3 pellets only (I actually imagine it less as pellets as more as firing 3 .410 slugs at the same time). In a triangle formation, 1 top 2 bottom (part of the name background). This is the only shotgun that when aimed (which pulls in the choke a little) can land all the pellets in the head. Headshots with Hammerpoints can be brutal. I actually prefer a Mozam over the Wingman just because I can hit with this at about the same ranges and ammo is easier to find mid to late game.

Mastiff ( 2 ) - this has the weirdest choke. It's literally a horizontal line of 8 pellets. The line is wider hipfired, the choke constricts when aimed. A headshot can be brutal (I usually see about 88 damage with a headshot by the time in late game when you can find these in care packages currently).

I recommend trying each shotgun out at the firing range. Shoot a wall to see the pattern, then shoot another wall while aiming to see how it constricts. Get used to shooting speed and reload times. They are a great option to open a fight (then swap to a proper bullet gun) or close a fight after cracking the armor with an auto gun.

As a side note, I would really like to see them add a Slug Shotgun (call it "The Breacher") that has one big slug for high damage at short to mid range (15-50 meters) and can shatter open the doors in one shot. Also, cause the only other game that uses Slug Shotguns a lot is Destiny 2.

1) Don't believe me, go find a trap range that can rent you a shotgun and shoot 25 rounds and see how low your hit rate is until you get the hang of it. I have been shooting trap for 4 years and only recently broke 20/25.

2) I personally love this shotgun for the reload animations alone, which as a semi-auto recoil operated shotgun, is different based on if you are topping off or full empty. Try it at the firing range.

The list of shotguns is down to 2 to me, and really 1. It's a Moz with hammer point or a Peacekeeper.  The Eva is nerfed too hard, and the Mastiff, with 4 shots in a spread, even as a red weapon, isn't like the old drop Mastiff, not even close.

Any weapon can put someone down but SMGs hurt from no barrel mods, the laser sight isn't so great.  I still would run a Volt, CAR, or R-99 over anything besides a Peacekeeper tho.

Shotguns are weak, I blame screaming and crying over being one shot killed at point blank range (which is definitely the fault of the target, but no, blame the shotgun).  Shotguns are nerfed across all games because players prefer auto losses in 10+ bullets rather than 1 bullet/shell.  It makes them feel better emotionally about their loss, while letting them ignore the mistakes they made.

No, I've played a lot of crucible, and yes you are right at one time it was shotgun, hand cannon meta.  But it really isn't right now.

And, I mean I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me when I say this, but back then, shotgun and handgun meta was super fun.

Even now, though, Destiny > Apex, far as I can see, for PVP.  Mostly just due to that if you die, you respawn and keep playing.  This is why, of course, you can afford to have high damage weapons.  I would forgive the BR systems for higher TTK, except at this point we've super shark jumped. Nothing in the game can really take you down in one shot anymore (except a Kraber to the head), but also it's hard to find a weapon that can kill you in 2-3 shots, that you can actually hit with consistenly.  The PK still is there, tho, and why I think it's still good.  

Games should reward skill, really, is what I'm trying to say.  One shot kills are most often not the problem of the gun, but the person who made the mistake of putting themselves in front of the shot. Either because they thought they were playing Street Fighter, and ended up at 3 feet away from a shotgun, or decided they should be fine running in a straight line through the open, in the case with sniper rifles.  It's why right now Rumbleverse, cartoon that it is, makes more sense than Apex, too.

There's fun to be had, don't get me wrong.  But right now Shotguns are meta feeble, like snipers, and poor TTK is why.  I'd rather have bullet spray in Apex because people will never complain about the R-301 even if they lose every game to it.

I'm still not understanding what is a "CS Version."  I also don't understand how .4 (PC value) AA relates to PS4.  I suspect this is a bit of an aim assist complaint thread in disguise?  I feel like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle here.

Shotguns are meant to be utilized in conjunction with hard cover in this game.  If you have a PK and are consistently losing to an SMG, that means you're over-peeking, or are fighting in situations where a shotgun is not ideal (i.e. out in the open).  With a proper shotgun peek, only a few SMG bullets should be able to land.

My friend, who coaches me, amassed enough data to show that I am not nearly as good with shotguns as I thought I was (low 1v1 win rate % with shotguns), so I simply try to avoid taking them in favor of an SMG.  This is a skill issue, not a balance issue.  All of the shotguns in the game right now are viable and in a decent position.  In my time I've lived through "Mastiff Legends" and "EVA Legends," and I'm not eager to return to a meta where not taking one of these weapons amounted to a soft throw.