Does this mean Emperor Vitiate will be released one day?

Gender neutrality really doesn't matter in Galaxy of Heroes. A lot of characters are already gender neutral even though their gender is clearly stated in canon. It's surprising how often the devs used "they" instead of "he" in their descriptions. If the devs had made Revan neutral, we probably wouldn't even have noticed. It's not a big deal

God I really hope we don’t get emperor Vitiate, he is so immensely over powered it would take all the other toons in the game ganging up together to defeat him. They would probably still lose though.

"YaeVizsla;c-1598563" wrote:

"Arbitrator;c-1598351" wrote:
This has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I’ve ever seen. Oh God forbid that Revan is a white male! The horror! /sarcasm

Get over yourself. There are a multitude of awesome heroes/villains from all races, ethnicities, and species. I’m so sick of SJW’s trying to act like being a white male is a bad thing. Why can’t we all just have awesome heroes/characters that we can relate to?

Revan IS a white male.
The exile, Meetra Surik, IS a white female.

SWTOR is an amazing game whose storyline also deals with the continuation of Revan’s story. As such, part of the storyline should be regarded as “KOTOR 3”. Revan is awesome. Drew Karphysyn, the creator of Revan, even wrote the storyline behind Revan in SWTOR.

The only reason you are allowed a choice of sex/gender when playing KOTOR was to be inclusive to both males and females and allow players to play the game as their “own” story. The actual canon version of Revan is a white male.

SW:tOR, KotOR, and the Revan trilogy are all non-canon.

Every depiction of Revan is equally non-canon. And as this chain of releases is explicitly celebrating the anniversary of KotOR, one could easily assert that the most relevant non-canon Revan of them all is KotOR Revan. Who is an AFGNCAAP.

That said, even if we rewind to before the Disney buyout, when these multiple works were all canon, they were just that. All canon.

And that's a word that gets misused a lot. "Canon" is a word appropriated by media from religion. It does not mean a timeline or historical account. It does not mean the work is necessarily factually consistent, though that is often preferable. The book of Genesis has two completely distinct stories of creation back-to-back.

"Canon" refers to a body of work officially deemed worthy of consideration.

In Legends, novel Revan, the poorly shaven white dude going through the events of the novel, was canon. SW:tOR Revan, also a poorly shaven white dude, was canon. KotOR Revan, the user-generated and user decision guided player character with the entire potentia cloud that generated was also canon. They are all part of the overall body of work officially deemed worthy of consideration. All of these versions were canon, even when they were mutually exclusive.

"I hope any version of Revan introduced to the game respects Revan as the user-generated character they were in KotOR," is not, "Being a white dude is bad!" However, representation matters, and we have a disproportionately massive number of white men dominating Star Wars. What's more, back then, it was much more dramatic. We didn't have Finn and Rey and Amilyn and Rose and Ciena and Grand Admiral Sloane and Dr. Aphra. Which made the fact that you could actually make, say, a black woman, and she actually has some agency in a Star Wars story important.

Given it took us eleven movies to get one black woman on the big screen with a name, I'd say we're not quite even yet. Heck, unless the Sith Assassin is secretly black under there, we currently have zero in Galaxy of Heroes. Not that I blame them for not picking Val as one of the Solo toons.

Given the choice between respecting two of the Revans, or all of them, why not make Revan gender neutral? Especially when the version that would be disrespected is the one whose anniversary we're supposedly celebrating right now.

Yes, yes if you consider the buyout none of the “legends” material is no longer OFFICIALLY canon... until Disney specifically makes it so. Heck even for the most part none of the Old Republic was really ever “official canon” for the Star Wars universe. It was all “expanded universe” which now falls under “legends” for Disney.

The point remains that white, male Revan WAS considered the “official canon” for that particular story before the buyout. The KOTOR games gave a choice for inclusivity to allow players to play their own story. This is something Bioware is well-known for, “create your own story, make decisions that alter your story”.

There aren’t separate “versions” of Revan. Revan in the novels, which WAS considered canon at the time, follows the light-side path of Revan, and Revan is a white male. SWTOR Revan is the exact same canon Revan from the novels and is a white male. The video game KOTOR simply features light/dark paths and both genders/sex just for inclusivity’s sake. Bioware has always been a very inclusive company and nearly every game they have created allows players to choose different paths. Just because KOTOR allows this, doesn’t mean that there isn’t an official canon to go by.

My point is that it doesn’t matter what race/gender someone is, but the fact that changing a character from what IS/WAS considered official just to fit a narrative from people who want to feel “special” is absolutely ridiculous. If a black, female character is wanted then Disney/Writer’s should go create a black, female character who is just as interesting as Revan.

Representation matters of course, I am not saying it doesn’t. I just don’t believe in altering a character just to fit someone’s “special” wants. If canon Revan is a white male, then leave him alone. Make another character that is a black female and write their own story that makes her just as interesting as Revan is to everyone else.

Revan shouldn’t be changed to “black female” just because someone wants that. Revan is a character that made his own choices, his own mistakes, his own decisions, his own adventures, just as much as Anakin made the choices that led to him becoming Darth Vader. What if Boba Fett all of sudden was changed to a Hutt? Or Palpatine is now a Tusken Raider... Don’t alter characters, create new interesting ones with their own flaws, morals, story, etc...

For Revan to truly be represented they would have to make 4 models:

Jedi Knight Revan (Original Revan)
Sith Lord Revan (Fallen Revan)
Revan (Revan Redeemed)
Revan Reborn (SPOILER: When Revan dies, his dark side half manifests itself into a physical form that is willing to do whatever it takes to destroy the Sith Emperor.)

All of these models would “canonically” be a white male. Drew Karpyshyn is the creator of Revan, and if he created Revan as a white male, that’s what Revan should be. If you, “Yae Vizsla” ever get hired by Disney to write a character novel then you can make a black female character that hopefully will be just as cool as Revan is. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to represent every ethnicity, but altering an original character is not the way to go.

Also, it’s not about “getting even” when it comes to character development. It’s about making interesting characters that people enjoy. It doesn’t matter if they are white, black, brown, yellow, blue, red, orange, human, alien, etc...

White “over-representation” in the Star Wars universe is a fallacy. Star Wars is a huge universe with characters from numerous ethnic backgrounds and several different species. The original movies were made in the 70’s so of course when actors were being searched for there were more white actors at the time than there were black actors. USA was predominately made up of caucasians so of course there is a larger representation of white people.

Wouldn’t you love to see a day where everyone quits being SJW’s and instead of a movie throwing in a token black character, a token Asian character, and just token characters in general that we actually get interesting characters from all ethnic backgrounds?

Look at The Last Jedi... if you can’t tell how littered with “Social Justice” the movie is then you are blind. All the supposedly “good guys”, The Resistance, are represented by a variety of ethnic backgrounds but the supposedly “bad guys”, The First Order, are predominately white males...

I just wish people would quit pushing political agendas and just make interesting movies with interesting characters from all ethnic backgrounds.

You keep saying male Revan was canon. Sure. But so was user-generated Revan, and neither is canon now.

As for things being de-canonized and re-canonized? Disney has done neither, to anything. That has been a purely Lucasfilms decision on every step. And no work that was removed from canon when Legends was shuffled off has ever been brought back. Legends material has been used as inspiration for a revised work, as is the case with Thrawn, but that isn't restoring a prior work. Regardless, that hasn't happened with Revan.

At absolutely no point did I say, "They should make Revan a black woman." That would also run into the problem of giving a user-generated character a specified sex and race. All I'm saying is I want them to make Revan neutral. Classic design already has the heavy robes, the mask. All it takes is they/them pronouns. Respects KotOR, SWtOR, and novel Revan.

You cite the demographics of the 70s. Alright. Let's look at 70s U.S. demographics. At the time, the U.S. was 83.5% non-hispanic white, which makes white men about 41% of the population at the time. Yet somehow, over the course of three movies, we got one person with a name from that remaining 16.5%, and the sum of all speaking time for women not named "Leia" across those three films is less than a minute. You can't pin it on demographics. There's a systemic problem at work, and no, ignoring it will not make it go away. We're talking about an industry that takes Avatar: The Last Airbender, a series with four nations explicitly based on three Asian nations and a Native American tribe, then casts all the good guys as white people and the bad guys as brown people. That makes the Lone Ranger movie, and for the most iconic Native American character in American pop culture, they cast Johnny Depp with a bird on his head. These are not exceptional cases. This is standard industry casting, and it's a problem both within the industry and in terms of the social ramifications of what goes on the screen.

If we ignore the problem, it will keep going on as is. Systemic problems get fixed by acknowledging them, by acting against them, by working to dismantle and correct the problematic elements.

Every Star Wars movie has had a political agenda. Hell, pretty much every movie has a political agenda. Art has a message. With movies, they tend to be about life, philosophy, or politics, usually all at once. The OT was about the Vietnam War appropriating WWII imagery to frame the Viet Cong as the French Resistance and the United States as Germany. Episode I was rooted in the 90s fear of growing Asian economic power, with the heroes fighting against an encroaching federation of ridiculous Chinese caricatures. Episodes II and III framed the US's response to the 9/11 attacks against the Reichstag bombing.

These are major political statements.

Now. You talk about people "quitting" being social justice warriors. Thing is, there's work to be done, change to be made. "Just stop fighting," won't end the problem. Without people stepping up and saying they want better than mere tokenism, that tokenism will go on. Progress takes effort. Takes those warriors fighting for social justice, same as has been the case throughout U.S. history.

Also, no. The First Order is not the evil white people. You've got Hux and Kylo, sure, but look in the background. Both sides are actually fairly diverse. And there are multiple heroic white people on team Resistance. Rey, Han, Luke, Leia, Holdo. Hell, Oscar Isaac probably ticks off Hispanic and white on the census, so he's both Latin representation and white guy protagonist. It's not like there's a shortage of heroic white people in this movie. So kvetching about more representation in the movie is a lot like... well...

https://i.imgur.com/wUgNEjC.jpg

"YaeVizsla;c-1600252" wrote:
You keep saying male Revan was canon. Sure. But so was user-generated Revan, and neither is canon now.

User-generated Revan was NEVER canon. The character Revan was created by Drew Karpyshyn. Revan was designed as a white, male Jedi Knight that made his own choices (which were written by Drew Karpyshyn since Revan is a fictional character) which led to everything that we all consider cool/awesome/badass about Revan.

Revan was a Jedi Knight that fell to the dark, redeemed himself back to the light, then forsake both the ways of the Sith and the Jedi going on a quest of personal vengeance that led to his death, where his vengeance was so sincere that his dark half manifested itself into a physical form which required both the Sith Empire and the Old Republic to work together to bring him down. Revan’s mask helped to make him seem emotionless, making him a more intimidating presence to his enemies. It had nothing to do with hiding his gender. Revan had sex with Bastila Shan, who conceived a child, their son, Vaner Shan. Revan is a male. Bastila is a female. Human procreation requires the seed of a male to fertilize the female.

As for things being de-canonized and re-canonized? Disney has done neither, to anything. That has been a purely Lucasfilms decision on every step. And no work that was removed from canon when Legends was shuffled off has ever been brought back. Legends material has been used as inspiration for a revised work, as is the case with Thrawn, but that isn't restoring a prior work. Regardless, that hasn't happened with Revan.

I never said anything has been registered by Disney as either canon or non-canon. I simply said Disney has not done so at this point in time and until they do then nothing in the EU/Legends is canon. But here we are, playing a game that has characters from EU/Legends and discussing how we both feel a character from the EU/Legends should be portrayed. And remember, pre-Disney everything besides what was declared official canon by Lucasfilm/LucasArts was considered EU expanded universe. Upon acquisition of Star Wars, Disney/Lucasfilm made most of EU stuff “Legends”.

At absolutely no point did I say, "They should make Revan a black woman." That would also run into the problem of giving a user-generated character a specified sex and race. All I'm saying is I want them to make Revan neutral. Classic design already has the heavy robes, the mask. All it takes is they/them pronouns. Respects KotOR, SWtOR, and novel Revan.

Revan is not a neutral character. The video game allowed you to play what you wanted so as to be inclusive to all players. Like I said, Bioware is well known for this. Have you never played a game before that allowed you to do things that people didn’t do in the movies/books? It happens all the time. Both KOTOR’s had character creation which allowed players to role play as their own version of a hero/villain. This game however does not have character creation. You play with established characters that each have their own stories, backgrounds, morals, etc...

You cite the demographics of the 70s. Alright. Let's look at 70s U.S. demographics. At the time, the U.S. was 83.5% non-hispanic white, which makes white men about 41% of the population at the time. Yet somehow, over the course of three movies, we got one person with a name from that remaining 16.5%, and the sum of all speaking time for women not named "Leia" across those three films is less than a minute. You can't pin it on demographics. There's a systemic problem at work, and no, ignoring it will not make it go away. We're talking about an industry that takes Avatar: The Last Airbender, a series with four nations explicitly based on three Asian nations and a Native American tribe, then casts all the good guys as white people and the bad guys as brown people. That makes the Lone Ranger movie, and for the most iconic Native American character in American pop culture, they cast Johnny Depp with a bird on his head. These are not exceptional cases. This is standard industry casting, and it's a problem both within the industry and in terms of the social ramifications of what goes on the screen.

The Star Wars saga (episodes 1-6) was essentially the story of the rise, fall, and redemption of the chosen one, Anakin Skywalker. The Star Wars saga was not about anybody else. Yes Star Wars has a multitude of species, races, ethnicities in such a wide, unlimited universe and still has potential for an unlimited amount of content.

The Star Wars saga however was about the story of Anakin Skywalker. A creator of content whether it’s George Lucas, Disney, you, me, etc... should never design a story based off pleasing every single person in the world. You create a story the way you see fit, the way you want to tell it. Especially when you are the one putting in the time, effort, and money to create it. Hopefully your audience will enjoy your creativity but sometimes they don’t.

The point regarding demographic was that at the point in time when the original trilogy was created, there were obviously more white actors available than black ones. There were also many men who had minimal speaking time as well as the women and you know why? Because the story wasn’t based around those characters. The story was based around Anakin Skywalker. The Skywalker family was obviously going to be a main part of the series.

The social ramifications you speak of are non-existent. Every race at one point of time on this earth has been enslaved, but somehow all white men in America are judged to be privileged and that we owe everybody else something. Minorities in this country have been treated exceptionally well, especially the black community and they enjoy the many freedoms they do today because of some “evil” white men who gave their lives to ensure everyone had an opportunity for freedom. You have to remember slavery has existed since the dawn of man. People have always treated others with inequality as soon as they had an ounce of power. It’s a human issue not a race issue, although it’s easy for the two to intertwine. White Jews were enslaved by Egyptians. Africans would sell their own people and people from other tribes to the colonials for simple goods. Hell you could even say that being forced to pay taxes is a “form of slavery” that we all turn a blind eye to because the government provides “security” and “protection” against those who would like to cause us harm. If you want to enjoy the benefits that this great country has to offer, then taxes is just something that most of us have to pay. Regardless, I just don’t see how creators should be expected to cater to every single person when they create content.

If we ignore the problem, it will keep going on as is. Systemic problems get fixed by acknowledging them, by acting against them, by working to dismantle and correct the problematic elements.

Every Star Wars movie has had a political agenda. Hell, pretty much every movie has a political agenda. Art has a message. With movies, they tend to be about life, philosophy, or politics, usually all at once. The OT was about the Vietnam War appropriating WWII imagery to frame the Viet Cong as the French Resistance and the United States as Germany. Episode I was rooted in the 90s fear of growing Asian economic power, with the heroes fighting against an encroaching federation of ridiculous Chinese caricatures. Episodes II and III framed the US's response to the 9/11 attacks against the Reichstag bombing.

These are major political statements.

Now. You talk about people "quitting" being social justice warriors. Thing is, there's work to be done, change to be made. "Just stop fighting," won't end the problem. Without people stepping up and saying they want better than mere tokenism, that tokenism will go on. Progress takes effort. Takes those warriors fighting for social justice, same as has been the case throughout U.S. history.

I watched an interview Morgan Freeman had once where he was asked about Black History month and how to get rid of racism. He said to stop talking about it. When you bring attention to the issue it just gives cause for it to exist. He also spoke about why we shouldn’t have Black History month because how could you fit all the history into a single month? If you want true equality, then you would wish for either everyone to be praised or for no-one to be praised. That’s the only way you can have equality. The only people that even talk about racism and want it to exist are those who are prejudice anyways. Separating blacks through things like NAACP and having channels such as BET is nothing but separation! That’s not equality. If someone made a WET(white entertainment) do you know how many people would come out of the woodworks offended? Lol... it’s just not right and it’s a double standard for those who preach about equality.

Yes art has a message and when creators make content they are usually inspired by history or things around them/things they experienced whether it’s theology, philosophy, etc... but when watching the Star Wars saga did you ever truly think to yourself “hey that’s speaking about Viet Kong and Nixon”? You probably didn’t. You probably enjoyed the movie for what it is and you’ve been passionate about the Star Wars universe ever since just like most of us. That’s the problem with content that’s being created today. Agenda’s are being pushed on us instead of just creating interesting stories and entertaining people.

Today, social justice is being pushed upon us like a bulldozer and we’re being slapped in the face with it. It’s like homosexuality. No one cares what 2 consenting adults do. Quit pushing it on every single person to try to get us to accept it. If you want to be that way fine! No one cares lol. But If I’m a Christian, and it’s against my religion to be homosexual, shouldn’t you also respect my religion? Why do I have to bend over backwards to appease something that I don’t believe in? It’s just another double standard of social justice. I’m not going to murder you or stone you because you choose to be gay lol. I just simply disagree with being that way. The LGBT community just wants everyone to agree with them and it’s such a double standard.

Also, no. The First Order is not the evil white people. You've got Hux and Kylo, sure, but look in the background. Both sides are actually fairly diverse. And there are multiple heroic white people on team Resistance. Rey, Han, Luke, Leia, Holdo. Hell, Oscar Isaac probably ticks off Hispanic and white on the census, so he's both Latin representation and white guy protagonist. It's not like there's a shortage of heroic white people in this movie. So kvetching about more representation in the movie is a lot like... well...

Yes the First Order is portrayed as the evil white people. The Resistance however has a fairly diverse representation. Go back and watch the movies. The majority of officers/soldiers you can see in the background are all white for the First Order, and even the arms dealing people at Canto Bight are portrayed as rich white tycoons.

Heroic white people? Lol... Rey is a Mary Sue who somehow managed to get the best of Kylo Ren, a man trained since birth by “supposedly” the strongest Jedi ever known, Luke Skywalker. Kylo took a Wookiee bowcaster shot to his side, and still managed to keep going beating his side, defeating Finn easily, but ultimately getting beaten by Rey, a nobody, scavenging survivor who has never had any prior training in the ways of the force. Kylo is literally the only interesting character in the series due to how he turned the way he did and his conflictions about the dark/light but they immediately let Mary Sue Rey get the best of him.

Luke Skywalker was turned into an old hermit who abandoned everyone he cares for which was completely out of his character. A man who was shown to not fear the dark side and converted his father, Darth Vader, who was arguably one of the most conflicted dark beings that we have seen, back into Anakin Skywalker, but Luke was “scared” of the darkness he sensed from Kylo and attempted to kill him?! Which led Kylo to fear for his life and go down the path that he is currently on! They completely ruined the character Luke Skywalker in my opinion.

Han Solo was killed off and didn’t have a big part in the movie at all really. He passes the ship down to Rey even though his best friend Chewbacca who has been with him through everything gets pushed to the side? Wookie’s are an intelligent species in the Star Wars universe and even though they don’t speak Basic they could at least show subtitles when they speak. Chewbacca wasn’t Han’s pet, he was Han’s friend. The cocky gunslinger everyone loved is just gone and their pathetic attempt to replace him with another cocky “generic” template, Poe, was just ridiculous. Rey now bosses Chewie around and pretty much “stole” the ship.

Leia... where do I even start lol. The one time she had shown any sign of using the force was being able to “feel” that Luke was alive. But now all of a sudden she gets sucked into space, floats out there for a minute, then proceeds to glide back towards the ship and survives? Even experienced Force users had to use force powers to augment the limits of their bodies to be able to survive in a vacuum or under water. Some couldn’t even use the force good enough so they had to rely on technology. Lol... this woman was a princess and considered as a great commander for the rebellion, but she was never a Jedi. Sure, she had the bloodline full of “midichlorians” because she was a direct descendant of Anakin, but Leia was never trained in the arts or how to use them.

Hux is made out to be a cuck by Kylo lol. Not a cool character at all.

Most everything in this link can sum up my thoughts about Holdo being a poor leader and Poe being reckless which lead to uninteresting characters, and quite frankly, unnecessary characters. https://www.quora.com/What-is-your-opinion-on-Vice-Admiral-Holdo-in-The-Last-Jedi

All of the existing white “heroic” characters were ruined and the new white characters are a product of social justice writing. Then they insert token minority characters to complete their checklist and it just leads to uninteresting films.