Easy counter to phoneix squad

"Woodroward;970205" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;970192" wrote:
Phoenix will be tough, changing how battles flow. That's for sure. Just curious, nihilus can annihilate, even if it's a phoenix tank, beginning the weakening of the Phoenix squad under hera (L). Back up plan won't work when annihilated. Once one phoenix goes down, is that enough to unravel the team?

Taking out Kanaan will be huge. Get rid of the long taunter, get rid of the health on debuff, get rid of the counter attack. Chopper is second kill priority IMO for the health regeneration and bonus protection.

If you can take out Kanaan, you've got a good shot. Chopper too, and their mitigation's pretty much gone. Only question is if you can survive long enough at that point to take out the other 3, because they won't have much survivability left.

Phoenix doesn't seem high on dps. Not sure if my zaul team will have a problem surviving. Remember, I have stealth, evasion and critical immunity. Pretty defensive traits.

"ImYourHuckleberry;970283" wrote:

"Woodroward;970205" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;970192" wrote:
Phoenix will be tough, changing how battles flow. That's for sure. Just curious, nihilus can annihilate, even if it's a phoenix tank, beginning the weakening of the Phoenix squad under hera (L). Back up plan won't work when annihilated. Once one phoenix goes down, is that enough to unravel the team?

Taking out Kanaan will be huge. Get rid of the long taunter, get rid of the health on debuff, get rid of the counter attack. Chopper is second kill priority IMO for the health regeneration and bonus protection.

If you can take out Kanaan, you've got a good shot. Chopper too, and their mitigation's pretty much gone. Only question is if you can survive long enough at that point to take out the other 3, because they won't have much survivability left.

Phoenix doesn't seem high on dps. Not sure if my zaul team will have a problem surviving. Remember, I have stealth, evasion and critical immunity. Pretty defensive traits.

The stealth doesn't prevent the counterattacks since it goes away at the start of the turn.

Phoenix get that 10% offense at the end of every turn that stacks. Their defense is very good, and the longer they're around, the harder they hit.

The critical immunity is exactly why you leave Sabine out. As it is, they don't depend on crits for much.

Look at the uniques they share:

Leader: Rise Together
Base: Each active Phoenix ally grants their Unique ability to other Phoenix allies. In addition, whenever a Phoenix ally uses a special ability, they gain 5~20% Turn Meter if Hera is active. The Turn Meter gain is doubled if they have less than full health.

Unique 1: Shrug Off
Base: Zeb has bonus Max Protection equal to +10~30% of his Max Health, and recovers 10~15% Protection at the start of his turn. This recovery is doubled if Zeb is debuffed.


Unique 1: Clear Mind
Base: Kanan has 30~70% Counter Chance and recovers 10~ 25% health whenever he suffers a debuff.



Unique 1: Push Through (Phoenix)
Base: Ezra gains 5~10% Offense at the end of his turn (stacking, maximum 10~40%). This bonus is reset when Ezra is defeated.



Unique: Maintenance Protocols (Phoenix)
Base: At the start his turn, Chopper recovers 5~15% of his Max Health. In addition, whenever he is damaged by an attack, he gains Protection Up (5~15%) for 2 turns if he doesn't have Protection Up.


So they gain max protection equal to 1/3 of their health
They instantly gain protection up (15%) whenever they take damage, and counter.
At the start of their turns they regenerate 15% max health, and 15% regeneration
Whenever they get debuffed they recover 25% health and increase their protection regeneration to 30%.
And 10% stacking offense at the end of every turn.

Zerging down Kanaan seems like the only hope to me, and it won't be easy.

"Woodroward;970247" wrote:

"Kyno;970217" wrote:

"Woodroward;970131" wrote:

"Kyno;970122" wrote:

"Woodroward;970104" wrote:

"Kyno;970098" wrote:

"Woodroward;970047" wrote:

"Kyno;969977" wrote:

"Woodroward;969699" wrote:

"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.

The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.

Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.

Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.

No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.

Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.

As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.

Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.

Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.

There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.

I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.

The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.

If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.

Good additions buff immunity.

The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.

Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.

Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.

If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.

You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.

Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.

The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.

AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.

Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.

Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.

Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.

Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.

Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.

Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.


The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,

Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.

Unless those debuffs are shock or healing immunity, 2 of the main buffs on a focused attack from a zaul team.

But again, they STILL get that automatically refreshing bonus protection, which means that your short term healing immunity and shock will wear off before you can wear them down enough to kill them. Then they regenerate it all.

Truth of the matter is, you didn't even get to attack the people you managed to have those debuffs on anyway because the taunter cleansed himself.

Healing immunity blocks protection regen.

Is a single toon debuffing going to be enough, just not sure it's going to work

Bonus protection (protection up) is not protection regeneration. Healing immunity doesn't block it. It is a buff not a heal, like the purple protection bars on ships, or like what nebbitt does with his basic.

My bad I forgot about that one. Shock would stop this.

Not sure how this will play out either, nihilus hits them with health down, does this reduce the healing effect because it's based on max health?

We will have to see how it plays out, I run a lower dps against zaul and my team survives for a while, I know shardmate talk about taking out 3 or 4 toons with nihilus because of the healing and cleansing. I see them maybe being in this category, but the ai doesn't know how to handle all these new toons and abilities, it's gonna be a close call on making the cut.

"Woodroward;970319" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;970283" wrote:

"Woodroward;970205" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;970192" wrote:
Phoenix will be tough, changing how battles flow. That's for sure. Just curious, nihilus can annihilate, even if it's a phoenix tank, beginning the weakening of the Phoenix squad under hera (L). Back up plan won't work when annihilated. Once one phoenix goes down, is that enough to unravel the team?

Taking out Kanaan will be huge. Get rid of the long taunter, get rid of the health on debuff, get rid of the counter attack. Chopper is second kill priority IMO for the health regeneration and bonus protection.

If you can take out Kanaan, you've got a good shot. Chopper too, and their mitigation's pretty much gone. Only question is if you can survive long enough at that point to take out the other 3, because they won't have much survivability left.

Phoenix doesn't seem high on dps. Not sure if my zaul team will have a problem surviving. Remember, I have stealth, evasion and critical immunity. Pretty defensive traits.

The stealth doesn't prevent the counterattacks since it goes away at the start of the turn.

Phoenix get that 10% offense at the end of every turn that stacks. Their defense is very good, and the longer they're around, the harder they hit.

The critical immunity is exactly why you leave Sabine out. As it is, they don't depend on crits for much.

Look at the uniques they share:

Leader: Rise Together
Base: Each active Phoenix ally grants their Unique ability to other Phoenix allies. In addition, whenever a Phoenix ally uses a special ability, they gain 5~20% Turn Meter if Hera is active. The Turn Meter gain is doubled if they have less than full health.

Unique 1: Shrug Off
Base: Zeb has bonus Max Protection equal to +10~30% of his Max Health, and recovers 10~15% Protection at the start of his turn. This recovery is doubled if Zeb is debuffed.


Unique 1: Clear Mind
Base: Kanan has 30~70% Counter Chance and recovers 10~ 25% health whenever he suffers a debuff.



Unique 1: Push Through (Phoenix)
Base: Ezra gains 5~10% Offense at the end of his turn (stacking, maximum 10~40%). This bonus is reset when Ezra is defeated.



Unique: Maintenance Protocols (Phoenix)
Base: At the start his turn, Chopper recovers 5~15% of his Max Health. In addition, whenever he is damaged by an attack, he gains Protection Up (5~15%) for 2 turns if he doesn't have Protection Up.


So they gain max protection equal to 1/3 of their health
They instantly gain protection up (15%) whenever they take damage, and counter.
At the start of their turns they regenerate 15% max health, and 15% regeneration
Whenever they get debuffed they recover 25% health and increase their protection regeneration to 30%.
And 10% stacking offense at the end of every turn.

Zerging down Kanaan seems like the only hope to me, and it won't be easy.

Ezra and zeb are not out yet. When they are, it looks like a good team. But not until they're all out. Then they may have their glory time like you so firmly believe, but who can gear 5 toons and star them up by the time the next meta shift occurs? I'm not even going to try, as I'll stay focused on sith/empire. They'll get new toons too eventually and shift the meta back. So personally I'm not buying the hype, and I won't be rushing off to get em.

"Kyno;970329" wrote:

"Woodroward;970247" wrote:

"Kyno;970217" wrote:

"Woodroward;970131" wrote:

"Kyno;970122" wrote:

"Woodroward;970104" wrote:

"Kyno;970098" wrote:

"Woodroward;970047" wrote:

"Kyno;969977" wrote:

"Woodroward;969699" wrote:

"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.

The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.

Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.

Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.

No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.

Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.

As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.

Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.

Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.

There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.

I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.

The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.

If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.

Good additions buff immunity.

The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.

Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.

Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.

If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.

You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.

Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.

The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.

AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.

Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.

Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.

Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.

Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.

Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.

Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.


The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,

Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.

Unless those debuffs are shock or healing immunity, 2 of the main buffs on a focused attack from a zaul team.

But again, they STILL get that automatically refreshing bonus protection, which means that your short term healing immunity and shock will wear off before you can wear them down enough to kill them. Then they regenerate it all.

Truth of the matter is, you didn't even get to attack the people you managed to have those debuffs on anyway because the taunter cleansed himself.

Healing immunity blocks protection regen.

Is a single toon debuffing going to be enough, just not sure it's going to work

Bonus protection (protection up) is not protection regeneration. Healing immunity doesn't block it. It is a buff not a heal, like the purple protection bars on ships, or like what nebbitt does with his basic.

My bad I forgot about that one. Shock would stop this.

Not sure how this will play out either, nihilus hits them with health down, does this reduce the healing effect because it's based on max health?

We will have to see how it plays out, I run a lower dps against zaul and my team survives for a while, I know shardmate talk about taking out 3 or 4 toons with nihilus because of the healing and cleansing. I see them maybe being in this category, but the ai doesn't know how to handle all these new toons and abilities, it's gonna be a close call on making the cut.

Shock might stop it, but since it isn't an AoE, you're only likely to be able to target the tank with it, and it will be hard to stick that debuff on either tank. It will be hard to stick any debuff on either tank (at least while they are taunting: 30% evasion and tenacity on Chopper, double tenacity on Kanaan I would stack even more on with mods personally).

I actually LIKE the idea of my non-taunters getting debuffed on this team from AoE. It automatically heals them back up from the AoE faster.

I think Phoenix are going to be one of the best defensive squads honestly. Most of their utility is automatic and defensive, so it's hard to play it poorly.

"ImYourHuckleberry;970332" wrote:

"Woodroward;970319" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;970283" wrote:

"Woodroward;970205" wrote:

"ImYourHuckleberry;970192" wrote:
Phoenix will be tough, changing how battles flow. That's for sure. Just curious, nihilus can annihilate, even if it's a phoenix tank, beginning the weakening of the Phoenix squad under hera (L). Back up plan won't work when annihilated. Once one phoenix goes down, is that enough to unravel the team?

Taking out Kanaan will be huge. Get rid of the long taunter, get rid of the health on debuff, get rid of the counter attack. Chopper is second kill priority IMO for the health regeneration and bonus protection.

If you can take out Kanaan, you've got a good shot. Chopper too, and their mitigation's pretty much gone. Only question is if you can survive long enough at that point to take out the other 3, because they won't have much survivability left.

Phoenix doesn't seem high on dps. Not sure if my zaul team will have a problem surviving. Remember, I have stealth, evasion and critical immunity. Pretty defensive traits.

The stealth doesn't prevent the counterattacks since it goes away at the start of the turn.

Phoenix get that 10% offense at the end of every turn that stacks. Their defense is very good, and the longer they're around, the harder they hit.

The critical immunity is exactly why you leave Sabine out. As it is, they don't depend on crits for much.

Look at the uniques they share:

Leader: Rise Together
Base: Each active Phoenix ally grants their Unique ability to other Phoenix allies. In addition, whenever a Phoenix ally uses a special ability, they gain 5~20% Turn Meter if Hera is active. The Turn Meter gain is doubled if they have less than full health.

Unique 1: Shrug Off
Base: Zeb has bonus Max Protection equal to +10~30% of his Max Health, and recovers 10~15% Protection at the start of his turn. This recovery is doubled if Zeb is debuffed.


Unique 1: Clear Mind
Base: Kanan has 30~70% Counter Chance and recovers 10~ 25% health whenever he suffers a debuff.



Unique 1: Push Through (Phoenix)
Base: Ezra gains 5~10% Offense at the end of his turn (stacking, maximum 10~40%). This bonus is reset when Ezra is defeated.



Unique: Maintenance Protocols (Phoenix)
Base: At the start his turn, Chopper recovers 5~15% of his Max Health. In addition, whenever he is damaged by an attack, he gains Protection Up (5~15%) for 2 turns if he doesn't have Protection Up.


So they gain max protection equal to 1/3 of their health
They instantly gain protection up (15%) whenever they take damage, and counter.
At the start of their turns they regenerate 15% max health, and 15% regeneration
Whenever they get debuffed they recover 25% health and increase their protection regeneration to 30%.
And 10% stacking offense at the end of every turn.

Zerging down Kanaan seems like the only hope to me, and it won't be easy.

Ezra and zeb are not out yet. When they are, it looks like a good team. But not until they're all out. Then they may have their glory time like you so firmly believe, but who can gear 5 toons and star them up by the time the next meta shift occurs? I'm not even going to try, as I'll stay focused on sith/empire. They'll get new toons too eventually and shift the meta back. So personally I'm not buying the hype, and I won't be rushing off to get em.

I'm pretty sure they'd have their glory time no matter who they ended up being and with whatever abilities they gave them. If the new team can't beat the current king, then CG is not designing good characters.

I won't be gearing them up and starring them in time for the meta, but I will actually be gearing them up. Can't say I will do that for all the new teams out.

I'm thinking of running Zader (l), Krooper, TFP, Shore once deathtrooper and krennic become farmable (or even if they don't, still not entirely sold on their survivability at low star level). I was wondering how well this team would do against the new rebels.

TFP should go first (assuming equal mods here) and put buff immunity on everyone's head + ability block maybe Chopper (not sure if that would be best). This should reduce the turn meter plus put a stop to the Protection Up. They could still counter attack, but they would just be hitting shore. I guess I would want to make my DT fast so he could go next and increase the cooldowns + take away those taunts if they are up. Oh, and he would apply AoE healing immunity with more turn meter removal.

Then Vader, Krennic and TFP would get their AoE's providing Dots (TM removal chance), Stagger (TM Removal), and more buff immunity (if the first AoE didn't stick, also adds TM removal)

Oh plus death trooper would double tap them all and daze + stun (if the first daze sticks) them.

The key here would be removing their turn meter so they wont get turns to attack/regen health and protection, and TFP's buff immunity would prevent protection up and taunts. TFP and Zader (and I guess krennic) would provide the dps needed to burn them down before they get a couple of turns (or even one).

I guess if I lack the dps to burn them down I could sub in Nihilus instead of shore, and risk the counter attacks...

What do you guys think? Will this work?
@Woodroward you seem to understand the Phoenix abilities best, is their a flaw in my plan that I am missing? Or something obvious that I am forgetting?

"Cesium;971038" wrote:
I'm thinking of running Zader (l), Krooper, TFP, Shore once deathtrooper and krennic become farmable (or even if they don't, still not entirely sold on their survivability at low star level). I was wondering how well this team would do against the new rebels.

TFP should go first (assuming equal mods here) and put buff immunity on everyone's head + ability block maybe Chopper (not sure if that would be best). This should reduce the turn meter plus put a stop to the Protection Up. They could still counter attack, but they would just be hitting shore. I guess I would want to make my DT fast so he could go next and increase the cooldowns + take away those taunts if they are up. Oh, and he would apply AoE healing immunity with more turn meter removal.

Then Vader, Krennic and TFP would get their AoE's providing Dots (TM removal chance), Stagger (TM Removal), and more buff immunity (if the first AoE didn't stick, also adds TM removal)

Oh plus death trooper would double tap them all and daze + stun (if the first daze sticks) them.

The key here would be removing their turn meter so they wont get turns to attack/regen health and protection, and TFP's buff immunity would prevent protection up and taunts. TFP and Zader (and I guess krennic) would provide the dps needed to burn them down before they get a couple of turns (or even one).

I guess if I lack the dps to burn them down I could sub in Nihilus instead of shore, and risk the counter attacks...

What do you guys think? Will this work?
@Woodroward you seem to understand the Phoenix abilities best, is their a flaw in my plan that I am missing? Or something obvious that I am forgetting?

Sounds like way too many debuffs to me. Zader especially sounds super bad against the Phoenix to me.

25% health recovery every time they get a debuff, plus double protection regeneration (30%) every turn because of it as well. With Vader's auto refreshing dots, you're basically giving them over a full bar of health every turn or two. You do have healing immunity, but do you have 100% uptime on it? If not, then I'd steer clear of debuffs against this team, and Zader especially.

Jedi would be good against this team, they have a lot of buffs and buff wipes. That is where this team can suffer. Debuffing them just powers them up. I truly think the new rebel team would destroy any Sith team when on offense, and be very tough for any Sith team to beat on defense.

"Woodroward;971064" wrote:


Jedi would be good against this team, they have a lot of buffs and buff wipes. That is where this team can suffer. Debuffing them just powers them up. I truly think the new rebel team would destroy any Sith team when on offense, and be very tough for any Sith team to beat on defense.

I think you are vastly overestimating their capability on Defense. I've been running Hera on an alt account where I also run up against her somewhat frequently and frankly, the AI is awful with her. Just awful. She almost never procs her expose on her basic, she frequently Backup Plans inconsequential teammates, and almost always chooses either your lowest damage dealer or someone who doesn't benefit from potency for Play to Strengths. And her kit isn't even that complex compared to some of the other team members. If they all play like this under AI...

Yeah they're sturdy, but not sturdy enough to time out with 4x speed and their damage doesn't look to be enough to overcome bad AI. I think even Zader teams will still live long enough to pick people off with culling blade and Boba will be useful there as well.

Edit: Unless Sabine ends up being a monster. Then they could be good on D

"fascizio;971118" wrote:

"Woodroward;971064" wrote:


Jedi would be good against this team, they have a lot of buffs and buff wipes. That is where this team can suffer. Debuffing them just powers them up. I truly think the new rebel team would destroy any Sith team when on offense, and be very tough for any Sith team to beat on defense.

I think you are vastly overestimating their capability on Defense. I've been running Hera on an alt account where I also run up against her somewhat frequently and frankly, the AI is awful with her. Just awful. She almost never procs her expose on her basic, she frequently Backup Plans inconsequential teammates, and almost always chooses either your lowest damage dealer or someone who doesn't benefit from potency for Play to Strengths. And her kit isn't even that complex compared to some of the other team members. If they all play like this under AI...

Yeah they're sturdy, but not sturdy enough to time out with 4x speed and their damage doesn't look to be enough to overcome bad AI. I think even Zader teams will still live long enough to pick people off with culling blade and Boba will be useful there as well.

Edit: Unless Sabine ends up being a monster. Then they could be good on D

Meh. These characters are all kind of weak individually. The guy who gives them stacking offense isn't even available yet... (Read: Don't even try to judge the squad by a portion of it).

The reason this team is going to be so good on defense is because of procs and automatic effects. Auto heal, Auto buff, counter attack. Basically, practically all their defensive capability has nothing to do with the AI, and THAT is why they will be good on defense.

Sabine is absolutely the one I would leave out of this team. Her unique is crit based, and critting is almost more of a crutch than a boon these days.