GAC rework

It's a very good idea... It's a pity that CG will never fix the GAC.

biggrip1976 wrote:

Place a max GP of 4 - 6 mil on Carbonite leaving the other tiers as is

6 or even 4 million vs a new sub 1- million player is still a good experience?  It's very simple, have a new player league that you cannot demote into.  Your first period in the bot division, then a period of time in the next division and so on.  Once this  new player period is finished, you move to Carbonite.

biggrip1976 wrote:

The weekly needs be scaled in the same fashion as the daily and round rewards.

It probably does, yes.  It's not really something that you can take advantage of though.  You win you move up, you lose you move down.  You can lose for a few months or so in Kyber to take advantage of getting the weekly winning rewards in Carbonite....By that time you've lost so much to break even on weekly rewards, it doesn't work out.

How ridiculous to design a mode which penalises players for taking breaks. This is a game requiring significant daily input and many may take some time for big life events and changes. This element is easily fixable in shards by chasing the latest fleet meta on return, it would not however be easily remedied for players who left a few years ago to catch up on 2-3M GP and all the latest toons. This would reduce the player base as who would return on this basis.

The game mode should be designed to give you a fair match up on current roster and  activity which the current one does for kyber and aurodium. The issues are when inactive big rosters fall which we still do not have much more than anecdotal complaints to know how big an issue this is, there have been much better suggestions on improving this.

The other massive issue I see is FTP vs PTP. I am a spender, I get the conquest pass, every LSB that has been relevant and the episode pass. I know how to mod, so I should very well outmatch a FTP who started at the same time as me. Whilst promoting spending, this could again cause more frustration and cause FTP and lower spenders to leave the game. 

The suggestion to me comes from an early P2P or even a whale who does not want to compete with those who may have played longer than them but is currently on a slower pace.

Hmm.

While I'm not sure "Beginners" league is exactly the solution...........

What might be & somewhat similar would be splitting GAC into Easy/Hard like Conquest is.

Schwartzring wrote:

I'm not sure "Beginners" league is exactly the solution

Why not?  What negatives do you see?  For me, I don't see any negatives.  It's about giving new players to GAC a positive and competitive experience.  

It makes me wince thinking that it's possible that your first GAC match up could be vs a player that's been playing since day 1 and rarely makes an effort.

Schwartzring wrote:

What might be & somewhat similar would be splitting GAC into Easy/Hard like Conquest is.

How would that work?   When I think of games and 'easy', 'hard' mode etc.  I'm thinking of PvE vs an AI.  How would it work in a PvP environment?  How would you make sure 'try-hards' aren't in easy and 'know-nowts' aren't in hard?

I'd like to point out something here as I've mentioned in my own post ( DEVS Please Fix GAC | EA Forums - 12221230 ) there is a reason why CG hasn't paid much attention to GAC.

Every time a post like this gets made, it's anyone in Chromium or lower who has issues, and players in Aurorium or Kyber don't see much of an issue, which generally discourages people to keep threads like this alive. 

In order for one of the devs to notice that a change is NEEDED and not ignore it you'd need a post to have at least a few hundred responses, if not more. 

Which will never happen as long as whales and Kyber players keep their heads in the sand and claim "it's a you problem" or remain to be afraid of changes to their oh so precious ranking and absurd crystal income. 

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

I'd like to point out something here as I've mentioned in my own post

You're doing your best to keep it alive huh?  Bumping it every weekend.

I don't know if it's by design or not, but once posts get too long here, they're not worth the effort.  Is it just me that it takes an age to get to the bottom.  Yours is far too long for me now, this one is getting there.

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

it's anyone in Chromium or lower who has issues, and players in Aurorium or Kyber don't see much of an issue

Not true.  I'm well in the upper half of Kyber and I see issues, particularly for very new players.  Maybe not the exact same issues you're seeing though.   However, there are issues that (I feel) are easily fixed with a few tweaks.

You have to remember that nearly all the players in kyber have experienced GP match making GAC; it's what we used to have.  So, the high league players can compare them and rate them.

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

In order for one of the devs to notice that a change is NEEDED and not ignore it you'd need a post to have at least a few hundred responses, if not more. 

Any source for this being fact?  Any past instances where there's been a 'mega-thread' that CG has felt forced to act upon?

The truth is there's been GAC threads (and some super large ones) since there's been GAC.  There's no way your thread is going to hit the numbers of some of the past.  There will always be GAC threads.  It feels that CG ignores them.  Ignores a lot of the forum chat tbh as Star Wars forums are very toxic.  

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

Which will never happen as long as whales and Kyber players keep their heads in the sand

I think you're right to a degree.  I see a lot of selfish responses on the forums.  However, I think from your original posts you're also looking out for yourself and not necessarily others.  After all, you care very little about the concern of Kyber players.  

Overall GAC works.  If you had an engine that works, would you throw it out and start again, or would you tweak and tune it to run just that little bit better.  Throwing out the system we have when it's working (on the whole) isn't logical.  It does need some tweaks though.  Here is what I feel would make GAC much better.

1. Divisional and League changes are treated the same.  No more hitting a hard wall with your points still changing.  Once a week would be my suggestion.  This would hopefully fix the issue of players getting caught in the whirpool of promotion/demotion cycle that plagues a lot of players.
2.  A new 1 division league above Kyber (Beskar maybe).  Promotions/demotions is done on a percentage of the Bk1/K1.  Hopefully this will solve the squish formula issues because of having more Kyber divisions getting negative squish than the other Leagues.
3.  A new league below Carbonite (Huttlet Tadpole League).  Let the little Huttlets grow into proper slugs before they're thrown in with the Barracudas.  You cannot demote into 'HT League' and once you're out of it, you're out of it for good.  Players spend 2 weeks in Division 5 before moving to Div 4 where they spend 2 weeks etc., etc., etc..  After 10 GAC weeks in 'HT League' they're promoted to the division with an average GP that is the same as their GP.
4. Activity Score.  Players are given (an invisible) Activity Score.  The 'AS' is used for secondary match making criteria.  1.  You're matched by players closest to you on Skill Points.  2.  You're then matched with players with the same Activity Scores as you.  You gain +2 points for being very active in a GAC match up, +1 for being active.  0 for doing some.  -1 for one offensive match.  -2 for nothing.  Max AS is +10 min is -10.   Now, those that don't try and demote to Leagues way below their true level won't interfere with players that are actually trying.

I believe this would fix GACs problems without needing to go anywhere near the awful world of GP match making.  

Signed

A Kyber player that cares

I appreciate your response Mouse. Even more - I appreciate hearing from a kyber player who genuinely appears to care. In my experience that is rare. Please keep that in mind with a few of my responses; respect is everything to me, and in no shape or form do I ever intentionally try to make someone feel like I don't care or outright disregard them. 

Any source for this being fact? Any past instances where there's been a 'mega-thread' that CG has felt forced to act upon?

With specifically CG, no. However I have plenty of experience in forums - topics ranging from xbox games to Linux programming/app development to website design, as well as a bash (terminal) program I personally created on Linux Ubuntu 10.04 some years ago. I wrote that because it is the general rule of thumb (in my experience) where developers of large projects generally ignore small posts - even if there's a hundred of small posts about the same topic. However, when one particular complaint becomes a mega thread (again, in my experience) developers at some point take a look and read through several pages and occasionally even begin responding to the same thread and interact with their community. I would logically expect the same to happen here at some point. 

However, I think from your original posts you're also looking out for yourself and not necessarily others. After all, you care very little about the concern of Kyber players.

Yes, and also no. As I stated in my own thread a little bit ago; my own post doesn't even really pertain to myself anymore. I have 6 GL (LV, JML, SEE, Rey, SLKR, and Leia) so I'm quite confident if I really wanted to climb it should be possible at this point, minus getting matched with opponents who clearly have me outmatched (such as 12M GP, all GL etc - which I am still quite far from achieving). So, for a while now I've been doing what I can to keep these posts alive entirely for other people. I no longer care about GAC at all until changes are made but I'm still very much willing to advocate for others who are not here in the forums to speak based on what I see and hear in discord and/or my guild. 

In regards to Kyber players I personally expect someone in the top tier to have a large enough roster, with enough good mods on their teams to be able to overcome a bit of a challenge even if they're missing a GL or two. I'm not saying they don't have issues, but I'm not really worried about players at the top of the food chain. For them rewards and such aren't really going to get any better in GAC - but it is the exact opposite for lower tiers. They NEED help, and it feels like Capital Games is perfectly content with letting them suffer. That's just not right so I'll continue to speak out against it. 

On that note, it isn't intentional that I post replies every weekend. Unfortunately, I have a job that is extremely taxing on my body, and also recently cracked a disc in my back. Monday - Friday I generally come home and just lay in bed hoping I don't need to move for any reason - so the only time I have any desire to go on the forum and possibly deal with toxicity (as you mentioned is quite common in these forums) is on the weekend. I would actually be on here a whole lot more if I had an easier job at a desk or something since I wouldn't be laying in bed with aches from my neck down to my feet. 

As for your proposed tweaks... I actually like that idea to be honest. Ultimately, I don't even entirely care what kind of changes are made (minus pure GP matchmaking which IS a horrible idea), as long as SOMETHING is done to help lower leagues perpetually facing lazy players with anywhere from a 3M - 10M GP gap in their brackets.

I wouldn't even necessarily say it would be a bad thing if any changes made were just to the lower leagues, while addressing Aurorium & Kyber complaints separately.

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

Any source for this being fact? Any past instances where there's been a 'mega-thread' that CG has felt forced to act upon?

With specifically CG, no.

I think this is something that is very CG.  They very often ignore or do the opposite to community pressure.  I feel it was a stronger thing in the past, not as prevalent now.  However, they'd sort of make jokes about it.  I'm not sure how in touch CG are with the community that plays their game.

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

However, I think from your original posts you're also looking out for yourself and not necessarily others. After all, you care very little about the concern of Kyber players.

Yes, and also no. As I stated in my own thread a little bit ago; my own post doesn't even really pertain to myself anymore.

What I found with your thread was 2 very different things were being classed as the same thing.

1. Players that are good at the game move up the leagues and find that they're vastly the GP underdog in every game.
2.  Players in the lower leagues are playing vs players that don't play every GAC match up and have fallen way below the league/division that they would be in, if they tried every round.

You see a lot of responses along the lines of "I know what you mean.  I'm always 3 million GP down!"

For me, 1 isn't an issue.  If the matches are too hard, the player will fall slightly to where they aren't too hard.  More often than not however, they find a way to be competitive.

2 however, is a totally different kettle of fish.  This is no longer within the spirit of how the game mode was intended.  The smaller player's only real chance is relying on the big dog not playing a full round.  This no longer is a competitive match-up and needs addressing.

2 very different things, that are being confused as 1 thing.  I think a lot of players start out doing very well, then cannot adjust to winning 50% of their games.  The mind plays tricks on you.  Losing 3 or 4 in a row is extremely demoralizing for all bar the most resolute.

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

In regards to Kyber players I personally expect someone in the top tier to have a large enough roster, with enough good mods on their teams to be able to overcome a bit of a challenge

Kyber's a different type of fish.  Disregarding Kyber 5 and low Kyber 4 that are caught in the whirlpool I mentioned as 'Issue 1' last week.  Once, you're out of that there's not a lot of a movement.  The difficulty curve is very noticeable.  A mid Kyber 3 player (that plays all the time for example) would stand zero chance vs a mid Kyber 2 player. I for example, win most of my games in low Kyber 2.  However, in high Kyber 2 it's very difficult for me.  I've been pretty much glued to mid Kyber 2 for over a year, no matter what improvements I make.  If you put me in mid Kyber 1.....I'd be mauled worse than an albino chicken with dandruff in a shark tank.  The differences in division are certainly not as marked in other leagues.

GP differences aren't an issues though.  I'd say I have the lowest GP in my bracket around 50% of the time, always bottom 3.  However, I don't see a difference in ability.  Actually, if ever I see a player with a marked lower GP than myself....it scares me.

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

They NEED help, and it feels like Capital Games is perfectly content with letting them suffer.

I'm not understanding why this has been allowed to go on.  However, as with my first point .....it's very 'CG'.  If a new player's first experiences are vs 6+ million GP accounts that can't be bothered.....that's truly terrible.  For the new player and for CG that could lose a potential money earner before they've been given the chance to fall in love with GAC.  It's frustrating that it's being allowed to happen.  It would be very very simple to add a beginners' league where old accounts cannot enter.  This would be such a better advertisement for GAC.

GrayJediWarrior wrote:

also recently cracked a disc in my back.

I can relate to this.  I have a partially torn ligament in my back.  Lying there, not being able to move unless you push one arm with the other arm..... I hope you get better soon!

Hey there, first - I greatly appreciate the insight on Kyber; I've been stuck between Chrome 5 and Chrome 3 for the better part of a year now, and until a couple years ago I never really put effort into GAC. I was one of those players who regularly had matches with opponents who had pretty much max accounts, or at the very least 4M GP higher than mine (as well as GL). It was so frustrating, that I had diverted my focus entirely into TW. I have almost all the TW omicron I can get for my roster, maybe missing 1-3 at most.  Anyway I wanted to address one thing in particular (mainly so others who might read this get some insight towards my intent)

2 however, is a totally different kettle of fish. This is no longer within the spirit of how the game mode was intended. The smaller player's only real chance is relying on the big dog not playing a full round. This no longer is a competitive match-up and needs addressing.

This is the only aspect of GAC I have been trying to address. I'm not an idiot; there are definitely other issues as well, but this is the big one. It's very disheartening, and my guild has even lost some members because of this. Those particular players enjoyed PvP modes very much but were almost entirely outmatched (as low as Carbonite 5) so often that I think they won a single round maybe once per month. 

To this very day, I have guild members stuck in an endless cycle like that - and they are NOT weak. Almost everyone in my guild has 3 GL - many of us have quite a few more. But it feels like no matter what they do, they're still endlessly facing players with 3 or more GL than they do, plus Proving Grounds units etc.

Honestly, I feel like almost the whole guild collectively gave up on GAC which is why we do extremely well in Territory War. We consistently face guilds with significantly higher GP and better rosters, but we all work together to push through to victory (helps using bots in discord).

The point here, is like you said - CG is potentially losing tons of players (and because of this, just as much money) whom would otherwise stick around. So on their end it's a bad thing. 

On the player side, we've already beaten this horse into a fine paste so I'm not going to repeat what we've all been saying (for years, in some cases).

Either way, I feel if the community continuously speaks out about these issues that at some point (if for no other reason than being thoroughly annoyed) SWGOH devs will feel compelled to do something instead of nothing at all. 

Well friend, Sundays I visit and spend time with my parents so I'm signing off for the weekend. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do :)

Edited to add:

P.S.

Sorry to hear that about your back. I know several people with varying back issues and none of those issues are fun. To that end, I also wish you a speedy recovery, and the best of health moving forward 🤜🤛