Has anyone totalled Signal Data income?

I'm looking at the incoming raid with the requirement of at least 8 new toons to r8.

Hard SD for a toon to r8 = 120. 120 * 8 = 960
Med SD for a toon to r8 = 140. 140 * 8 = 1120
Easy SD for a toon to r8 = 135. 135 * 8 = 1080

Farming time, given 3xCantina refresh/day + only using cantina energy for SD. (~18ish/day hard, 24-25ish medium, 34ish easy)
960 / 18 = 53 days
1120/ 24 = 47 days
1080/ 34 = 32 days

132 days for the signal data farming with no distractions but also no special events (like double drops).

That's quite a lot just to get the intended raid teams to max level if the raid itself lasts only 9 months. Literally half of all your SD income from farming goes straight to the raid, if 8 of the toons required for best raid scores are brand new as is the case here.

Digression:

Spoiler

I wouldn't complain about this if I knew for certain that these toons were actually going to get max or near-max scores.

As is, I'd certainly like some reassurance that an r8 Gungan squad will be able to max the raid, because the gungan faction is really horribly uninteresting in the movies. The only reason to bring them up in-game is their **supposed** raid utility.

I mean, seriously, how 8 year olds imagined themselves shooting storm troopers or blowing up death stars in 1980 vs how many 8 year olds imagined themselves holding a conference to exile Jar Jar in 2000? Did Boss Nass even do anything in the battle vs the B1s? I don't remember him there. Captain Tarpals certainly was there, but it's not like he played any remotely heroic role.

The r8 for Queen Amidala, and Palawan Kenobi are definitely going to beloved characters and there's no reason to resent that or complain about resources there. New QuiGon seems redundant as he was only in one movie, so having 2 versions of him is weird, but ... okay? No excitement for a new QGJ, but no resentment there either.

But total it up with the Gungans and JarJar and that's a lot of SD just to play the raid's top level. And that assumes that you're going to be able to slot in some other GR toons on Amidala's squad, toons that you already have at r5-r8 already. GMY would be reasonable, although he wasn't present on Naboo he certainly could have been.

I wouldn't complain about this if I knew for certain that these toons were actually going to get max or near-max scores. As is, I'd certainly like some reassurance that an r8 Gungan squad will be able to max the raid, because the gungan faction is really horribly uninteresting in the movies. The only reason to bring them up in-game is their **supposed** raid utility. I mean, seriously, how 8 year olds imagined themselves shooting storm troopers or blowing up death stars in 1980 vs how many 8 year olds imagined themselves holding a conference to exile Jar Jar in 2000? Did Boss Nass even do anything in the battle vs the B1s? I don't remember him there. Captain Tarpals certainly was there, but it's not like he played any remotely heroic role. The r8 for Queen Amidala, and Palawan Kenobi are definitely going to beloved characters and there's no reason to resent that or complain about resources there. New QuiGon seems redundant as he was only in one movie, so having 2 versions of him is weird, but ... okay? No excitement for a new QGJ, but no resentment there either. But total it up with the Gungans and JarJar and that's a lot of SD just to play the raid's top level. And that assumes that you're going to be able to slot in some other GR toons on Amidala's squad, toons that you already have at r5-r8 already. GMY would be reasonable, although he wasn't present on Naboo he certainly could have been.

So I'm hoping to learn that my SD income is better than just the farming + what I remember offhand. I know we get SD income from assault battles, but I can't remember how much that is per month and thus how much of a dent it's going to make in the time required.

2.5-3 months of SD income for a 9 month raid isn't unreasonable, but 4.5 months is, which is where we are without sources other than farming. (And, to be fair, some people can afford 300 crystals/day on SD farming, so if you're spending 200/day things get substantially worse.)

I'd like to look at better numbers for what we actually gain over time from all sources at 300 crystals/day for Cantina refreshes as well as at 200 / day. Once we have that, it might be that all this turns out fine, or it might be time to get a new challenge battle for Queen Amidala or, (even better) for the Gungans, to make them more useful. That challenge would come around as often as the new Jabba/Leia challenges and reward substantial amounts of SD.

Again, I'm not recommending that now, but as a community, we should probably look at the numbers and think about raid investments vs costs.

individual events

25 Replies

drathuk916
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
"herd_nerfer;c-2462536" wrote:
"Gawejn;c-2462532" wrote:
"herd_nerfer;c-2462515" wrote:
Here's a little more data for you @MasterSeedy - this doesn't include TB rewards but I'm pretty sure we get some signal data from there. This assumes that you buy all available SD from conquest, complete to at least box 5 (though it says 'Red Crate' in my graphic - you actually get more signal data in boxes lower than the 5th box - because that makes sense - of course you would get more of the primary bottleneck materials for achieving less, amirite?). This also assumes that you complete CT3 of all assault battles every month.

Obviously these things are going to be variable from roster to roster but to make the math easy we're making an assumption that you can do all of those things.

Edit: to translate to the terms you used, in the graphic "White" = "Easy", "Green" = "Medium", "Blue" = "Hard"

Green is 10 from assault battles? Not 6?

Pretty sure from each of CT2 and CT3 you get 5 white, 5 green, 3 blue - if I'm wrong I can update the graphic. I was going off of memory on those so if someone has a screenshot of the rewards I can make adjustments.

https://swgoh.wiki/wiki/Ground_War
It’s wiki so won’t say it’s definitive but it backs my recall
RagingMonkey057
2 years ago
"Gawejn;c-2462532" wrote:
"herd_nerfer;c-2462515" wrote:
Here's a little more data for you @MasterSeedy - this doesn't include TB rewards but I'm pretty sure we get some signal data from there. This assumes that you buy all available SD from conquest, complete to at least box 5 (though it says 'Red Crate' in my graphic - you actually get more signal data in boxes lower than the 5th box - because that makes sense - of course you would get more of the primary bottleneck materials for achieving less, amirite?). This also assumes that you complete CT3 of all assault battles every month.

Obviously these things are going to be variable from roster to roster but to make the math easy we're making an assumption that you can do all of those things.

Edit: to translate to the terms you used, in the graphic "White" = "Easy", "Green" = "Medium", "Blue" = "Hard"

Green is 10 from assault battles? Not 6?

You were right - I went and found a screenshot - it's updated. Sorry about that, and thanks for the catch.
MasterSeedy
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Winterwolves

Kind of off topic, sorry Seedy.

No, no. It's on topic. I'm exploring what we're asked to invest for the raid, and you were doing that, even if you were exploring a bit of a different side of that calculation than SD. Thanks for your contribution.

@Starslayer @Profit
Thanks for your contributions as well. Profit is right in saying,
As far as I can tell it is a call to look into the numbers, so just shooting it down as flawed is a bit strong I think.

Right. I was never saying that I had the final calculation at 132 days. I specifically said that it ignored a bunch of income and I was wondering how much that other income changed that calculation.

And yes, Starslayer, you're right that I'm endgame in the sense that I don't have any old toons to farm or gear anymore, not that are priorities anyway. I've got about 30 toons at g12 that I will slowly transition to r1, but none of them are important in any sense. Maybe 5 or 6 of them are useful, but I'm not hurting because I lack them. They'll get to relics first, but I'm not worried about exactly when.

@Drathuk916
For the entirety of the raid, I think the investment is on the high side and the ROI is on the low end. This is magnified by speeder bike being the opposite.

Right. It's hard to say right now, of course, but GL Leia was a highly requested (and much beloved) character from the movies. Previous incarnations of Leia had been vastly underwhelming and Endor was a place where she had a central part of the entire battle from planning to execution, and without her raid on the shield generator blowing up the 2nd Death Star wouldn't have been possible.

So you get a fan favourite AND a GL (which is better, to me anyway, then an iconic character and GL that you don't love, like Jabba whom we can appreciate as a character but none of us spent out childhoods hoping we'd grow up to be) plus a whole lot of legacy toons, some of which people had at high relics for RotE platoons.

With 5-toon squads (it looks like) and 8 new toons (possibly 10, but let's not be hasty) that are going to be required at r7 and desired at r8 for effective raid participation, it certainly has the initial appearance of being more investment for the same reward.

And the investment seems only more disproportionate given that very few people were clamouring for Gungans -- personally I'd just take them to g12+0 and leave them there out a sense of Pokemon completeness but never use them if not for the raid, the Gungans were terrible characters in the movie with no personality or development (though give them credit for art design) -- I'm going to have to hold my nose as I slap relic tiers on them. I doubt many people were holding their noses to relic up Captain Rex or GL Leia. And while some people considered Drogan a diversity hire in the worst sense of that phrase, I loved him from the start, and the effort that CG was making. And whatever you think about disability inclusion, he's still 1 toon, not 5.

So, yes. It seems like CG is making a big ask and thus my original post. I've made no final judgements, but I'll be thinking about SD budgets as well as JarJar.

I know that it came out since that the actor who played JarJar is a man of color who came up with JarJar's speech patterns on his own, and his emulation of certain patterns of Caribbean patois came from an honest love for the place and its people, but when the movie came out the hapless, subservient nature of the JarJar character combined with those speech patterns came across as shockingly racist. That taint has never left.

Honestly, when I heard the fan theory that JarJar was Darth Plagueis manipulating events while disguising his power, I loved it. It would have redeemed everything about the character. he wouldn't actually be hapless and subservient, so his adoption of the accent (or even had it been his natural voice) wouldn't be reinforcing a racist trope, but reinforcing a disguise used by the powerful.

Sadly, that was not to be, and so regardless of the actor's intent, I've just never been able to even mildly like the character. He grates on me horribly. It's possible that JarJar's inclusion is also emotionally making this seem like even a bigger ask, though I've tried very hard to think carefully through things and not let my loathing for JarJar affect my arguments.

And I'm not saying that CG could have a Naboo raid and ignore JarJar. I get it.

I'm mostly just saying that JarJar can be made as powerful as they want and he's still no GL Leia. Or Captain Rex. Or even Drogan.
perfidius44
Seasoned Newcomer
2 years ago
"MasterSeedy;c-2462560" wrote:

I was never saying that I had the final calculation at 132 days. I specifically said that it ignored a bunch of income and I was wondering how much that other income changed that calculation.

I wasn’t clear. I’m not challenging your SD income calculation nor calling it flawed because it’s supposed to be 135 days and not 132 days.
What I’m challenging is your premise that you need, specifically for the raid, to gear at least 8 new toons from G1 to R8. We used SD to gear characters all year long for non-raids reasons. What should be taken into account if you wish to ‘ look at the numbers and think about raid investments vs costs’ are the gear/relic levels that you put on characters specifically to achieve a certain level in raid. For instance, every player that wish to unlock Jar Jar will need R5 gungans as prerequisites. Only the jump from R5 to R8 is ‘raid investment’, G1 to R5 is just ‘Journey Guide investment’.
So you can only really study ‘raid investment vs cost’ if you consider a specific roster, which makes it a nearly impossible task.

Still, I completely agree that the SD income would be a very interesting thing to find out.
MasterSeedy
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
Fair. Though given how much I hate JarJar, there's no JG investment for me. I wouldn't be collecting the character without him being required for something -- raid or a specific TB planet or whatever. I loathe him that much.