With the raid changes that were made putting the old raids as legacy we are only now allowed 1 raid at a time. Will this continue to be the case with the new raid coming essentially replacing the Krayt Dragon or will we be able to run them simultaneously.
I'm debating if it's still worth investing in the Krayt Raid teams or should we abandon that as come fall/winter it will be a legacy raid we don't do anymore.
"TVF;c-2429886" wrote: To make us invest in new teams
That's my whole point though - Half way through investing in the 'new' teams the next raid comes along and renders them obsolete in the context of raids. So where's the motivation to push for raid team development?
"StarSon;c-2429888" wrote:
"herd_nerfer;c-2429878" wrote: So my biggest question for CG is - why are we disincentivizing investment in raid teams?
They aren't. Are you going to let 4+ months go by with worse rewards? That's too long to miss out when you could maybe push for the next box, the whole time earning more rewards to make for better teams in the next raid.
If I can't recoup the investment before the raid turns over then I've lost ground - I haven't gained anything by getting that better box because I've sunk so many resource into the teams it takes to get to that next box. And then that team isn't doing much for me. So yes, in that case I'm going to let those 4+ months go by with worse rewards because I come out ahead in the end. This isn't like investing in trash toons for a GL or for RotE platoons, because that continues to give ROI - once the raid turns over, the investment is more or less dead (again - in the context of their PVE value).
I haven't done any math on this, but outside of the Hutt Cartel teams and ~maybe~ Mandolorians, I'm having a hard time justifying the investment in OR or Tuskens, and I was having trouble justifying Jawas with or without a new raid coming.
I'm not saying don't make new raids - I'm not even saying don't make new raids quickly - I'm saying make it worthwhile to put gear on raid teams. Right now, unless it's already a core team that's got wide utility in the game at large, why should anyone bother?
Knowing what happens with rewards and what happens to the 'old' raid when a new one comes out answers those questions. And if the answer is - "there's no good reason to work on niche raid teams" (tuskens, jawas, and to a large extent OR) then fine - I know I can skip that and not worry about it. But if that's the answer, it seems counter productive, and definitely disincentivizes player investment in those teams - which seems weird.
I'm not demanding an answer here - but I think it's fair to ask the question.
Jawas aside, all the Krayt teams have plenty of uses outside of the raid. Tuskens shine in pvp, Hutt shines everywhere, Mandos are a solid GA defense team, JKR teams have always been great on offense, and aside from all of that you need a bunch of random r8 for TB.
But, quick math: if your guild is at the 130 box, and all 50 members taking 1 more team to r8 gets you to the 265 box, that's an additional 1800 mk3 per week. Over 4 months that's 28.8k mk3 tokens. That breaks down to 49 gyrda, ~100 ID (sorry, I bought some this morning, not sure of their cost), or 230 Zinbiddles; plus a few more from personal rewards. Looks like a break even on raid rewards, and now you have another r8 team for anything else.
Your assumption doesn't work for my guild - we're still working on the 90m box, and the MK3 increase from 25 to 90 is significantly less (though admittedly it's an easier gap to bridge).
That being said - if we work with your numbers, 28.8k - that's enough MK3 to cover the upgrade costs of electrium, zinbiddles, aeros, and impulse detectors for 1.3 characters from R0 to R8. So yeah - you're going backwards by making that leap if the team has limited utility outside of the raid.
Why are you calculating the ROI that way when you aren't getting 100% of the materials from the raid?
Edit: you also aren't using that character only in the raid, unless it's a Jawa.
"TVF;c-2429886" wrote: To make us invest in new teams
That's my whole point though - Half way through investing in the 'new' teams the next raid comes along and renders them obsolete in the context of raids. So where's the motivation to push for raid team development?
"StarSon;c-2429888" wrote:
"herd_nerfer;c-2429878" wrote: So my biggest question for CG is - why are we disincentivizing investment in raid teams?
They aren't. Are you going to let 4+ months go by with worse rewards? That's too long to miss out when you could maybe push for the next box, the whole time earning more rewards to make for better teams in the next raid.
If I can't recoup the investment before the raid turns over then I've lost ground - I haven't gained anything by getting that better box because I've sunk so many resource into the teams it takes to get to that next box. And then that team isn't doing much for me. So yes, in that case I'm going to let those 4+ months go by with worse rewards because I come out ahead in the end. This isn't like investing in trash toons for a GL or for RotE platoons, because that continues to give ROI - once the raid turns over, the investment is more or less dead (again - in the context of their PVE value).
I haven't done any math on this, but outside of the Hutt Cartel teams and ~maybe~ Mandolorians, I'm having a hard time justifying the investment in OR or Tuskens, and I was having trouble justifying Jawas with or without a new raid coming.
I'm not saying don't make new raids - I'm not even saying don't make new raids quickly - I'm saying make it worthwhile to put gear on raid teams. Right now, unless it's already a core team that's got wide utility in the game at large, why should anyone bother?
Knowing what happens with rewards and what happens to the 'old' raid when a new one comes out answers those questions. And if the answer is - "there's no good reason to work on niche raid teams" (tuskens, jawas, and to a large extent OR) then fine - I know I can skip that and not worry about it. But if that's the answer, it seems counter productive, and definitely disincentivizes player investment in those teams - which seems weird.
I'm not demanding an answer here - but I think it's fair to ask the question.
Jawas aside, all the Krayt teams have plenty of uses outside of the raid. Tuskens shine in pvp, Hutt shines everywhere, Mandos are a solid GA defense team, JKR teams have always been great on offense, and aside from all of that you need a bunch of random r8 for TB.
But, quick math: if your guild is at the 130 box, and all 50 members taking 1 more team to r8 gets you to the 265 box, that's an additional 1800 mk3 per week. Over 4 months that's 28.8k mk3 tokens. That breaks down to 49 gyrda, ~100 ID (sorry, I bought some this morning, not sure of their cost), or 230 Zinbiddles; plus a few more from personal rewards. Looks like a break even on raid rewards, and now you have another r8 team for anything else.
Your assumption doesn't work for my guild - we're still working on the 90m box, and the MK3 increase from 25 to 90 is significantly less (though admittedly it's an easier gap to bridge).
That being said - if we work with your numbers, 28.8k - that's enough MK3 to cover the upgrade costs of electrium, zinbiddles, aeros, and impulse detectors for 1.3 characters from R0 to R8. So yeah - you're going backwards by making that leap if the team has limited utility outside of the raid.
Why are you calculating the ROI that way when you aren't getting 100% of the materials from the raid?
Because you would get those rewards regardless of the investment in the raid team, so they're not a factor in how much benefit you get from the investment. I'm not talking about Hutt Cartel, and for most characters that DO have uses outside of the raid R8 isn't even necessary for them to fill their role - so you're trying to hit high relics for the sole purpose of increasing your raid rewards - and the math points to that being a losing investment if the rewards are going to be reduced after x number of months.
To put it another way - how much money do you have to spend to make another dollar every day for a month? If you have to spend more than $29, you're not making money - you're losing it, or at best breaking even.
"TVF;c-2429886" wrote: To make us invest in new teams
That's my whole point though - Half way through investing in the 'new' teams the next raid comes along and renders them obsolete in the context of raids. So where's the motivation to push for raid team development?
"StarSon;c-2429888" wrote:
"herd_nerfer;c-2429878" wrote: So my biggest question for CG is - why are we disincentivizing investment in raid teams?
They aren't. Are you going to let 4+ months go by with worse rewards? That's too long to miss out when you could maybe push for the next box, the whole time earning more rewards to make for better teams in the next raid.
If I can't recoup the investment before the raid turns over then I've lost ground - I haven't gained anything by getting that better box because I've sunk so many resource into the teams it takes to get to that next box. And then that team isn't doing much for me. So yes, in that case I'm going to let those 4+ months go by with worse rewards because I come out ahead in the end. This isn't like investing in trash toons for a GL or for RotE platoons, because that continues to give ROI - once the raid turns over, the investment is more or less dead (again - in the context of their PVE value).
I haven't done any math on this, but outside of the Hutt Cartel teams and ~maybe~ Mandolorians, I'm having a hard time justifying the investment in OR or Tuskens, and I was having trouble justifying Jawas with or without a new raid coming.
I'm not saying don't make new raids - I'm not even saying don't make new raids quickly - I'm saying make it worthwhile to put gear on raid teams. Right now, unless it's already a core team that's got wide utility in the game at large, why should anyone bother?
Knowing what happens with rewards and what happens to the 'old' raid when a new one comes out answers those questions. And if the answer is - "there's no good reason to work on niche raid teams" (tuskens, jawas, and to a large extent OR) then fine - I know I can skip that and not worry about it. But if that's the answer, it seems counter productive, and definitely disincentivizes player investment in those teams - which seems weird.
I'm not demanding an answer here - but I think it's fair to ask the question.
Jawas aside, all the Krayt teams have plenty of uses outside of the raid. Tuskens shine in pvp, Hutt shines everywhere, Mandos are a solid GA defense team, JKR teams have always been great on offense, and aside from all of that you need a bunch of random r8 for TB.
But, quick math: if your guild is at the 130 box, and all 50 members taking 1 more team to r8 gets you to the 265 box, that's an additional 1800 mk3 per week. Over 4 months that's 28.8k mk3 tokens. That breaks down to 49 gyrda, ~100 ID (sorry, I bought some this morning, not sure of their cost), or 230 Zinbiddles; plus a few more from personal rewards. Looks like a break even on raid rewards, and now you have another r8 team for anything else.
Your assumption doesn't work for my guild - we're still working on the 90m box, and the MK3 increase from 25 to 90 is significantly less (though admittedly it's an easier gap to bridge).
That being said - if we work with your numbers, 28.8k - that's enough MK3 to cover the upgrade costs of electrium, zinbiddles, aeros, and impulse detectors for 1.3 characters from R0 to R8. So yeah - you're going backwards by making that leap if the team has limited utility outside of the raid.
Why are you calculating the ROI that way when you aren't getting 100% of the materials from the raid?
Because you would get those rewards regardless of the investment in the raid team, so they're not a factor in how much benefit you get from the investment. I'm not talking about Hutt Cartel, and for most characters that DO have uses outside of the raid R8 isn't even necessary for them to fill their role - so you're trying to hit high relics for the sole purpose of increasing your raid rewards - and the math points to that being a losing investment if the rewards are going to be reduced after x number of months.
To put it another way - how much money do you have to spend to make another dollar every day for a month? If you have to spend more than $29, you're not making money - you're losing it, or at best breaking even.
I agree, with the exception of the overlap. For example, players obtaining Jabba for the Krayt Raid need JKL, which is useful in the next raid. Also it remains to be seen what the max attempts will look like, and they are talking about squads of three I believe.
Essentially I am saying that if what you are working on also benefits the next raid, don’t switch tracks. But you’re right that topping off a Krayt squad to improve your score doesn’t make much sense the closer we get to the new raid.
"crzydroid;c-2429771" wrote: The implication would be that new raids would replace the old one. That being said, Krayt will probably be cycled back at some point in the future, so those teams would be useful again.
Is this official information from the Devs, or just your personal opinion? This isn't intended to be snarky, I was just wondering if you have inside info as a moderator.
It was the way I read the original post about it, but based on what people are saying, it's possible that was just an assumption I was reading into the text. It could be they leave Krayt as a legacy raid, I guess, with the mark III moved to Endor raid...but to me that also seems weird because if we add a new one every 8 months, the raid list would just get really long. I also can't see them spending development time on something that will never see the light of day again after a few months. We've seen datacron abilities recycle...I guess I always just assumed the new raids would too.
Krayt hardly feels like a Legacy anything. I'm really hoping they let you alternate between the two, otherwise this new Raid setup is dumb AF.
If I can't recoup the investment before the raid turns over then I've lost ground - I haven't gained anything by getting that better box because I've sunk so many resource into the teams it takes to get to that next box. And then that team isn't doing much for me. .
That's the management aspect I enjoy tbh. Choosing which teams to gear for maximum efficiency, taking into account the use of those teams in different aspects of the game. Now, once we'll know the rewards of the new raid imagining the cadence of 2 raids per year becomes a thing, if the smart move turns out to be not gearing anything because the raid units are useless and the reward difference too low, then it would be just sad and I would join your concern.
"crzydroid;c-2429771" wrote: The implication would be that new raids would replace the old one. That being said, Krayt will probably be cycled back at some point in the future, so those teams would be useful again.
Is this official information from the Devs, or just your personal opinion? This isn't intended to be snarky, I was just wondering if you have inside info as a moderator.
It was the way I read the original post about it, but based on what people are saying, it's possible that was just an assumption I was reading into the text. It could be they leave Krayt as a legacy raid, I guess, with the mark III moved to Endor raid...but to me that also seems weird because if we add a new one every 8 months, the raid list would just get really long. I also can't see them spending development time on something that will never see the light of day again after a few months. We've seen datacron abilities recycle...I guess I always just assumed the new raids would too.
Krayt hardly feels like a Legacy anything. I'm really hoping they let you alternate between the two, otherwise this new Raid setup is dumb AF.
You can do whatever raid you want, just like today. But Mk3 tokens will only be in the Featured Raid. Currently that raid is Krayt, but once the bike one comes out that will be the Featured Raid.
"crzydroid;c-2429771" wrote: The implication would be that new raids would replace the old one. That being said, Krayt will probably be cycled back at some point in the future, so those teams would be useful again.
Is this official information from the Devs, or just your personal opinion? This isn't intended to be snarky, I was just wondering if you have inside info as a moderator.
It was the way I read the original post about it, but based on what people are saying, it's possible that was just an assumption I was reading into the text. It could be they leave Krayt as a legacy raid, I guess, with the mark III moved to Endor raid...but to me that also seems weird because if we add a new one every 8 months, the raid list would just get really long. I also can't see them spending development time on something that will never see the light of day again after a few months. We've seen datacron abilities recycle...I guess I always just assumed the new raids would too.
Krayt hardly feels like a Legacy anything. I'm really hoping they let you alternate between the two, otherwise this new Raid setup is dumb AF.
You can do whatever raid you want, just like today. But Mk3 tokens will only be in the Featured Raid. Currently that raid is Krayt, but once the bike one comes out that will be the Featured Raid.
I think this is the most likely scenario, but we don't actually know for sure yet.
"crzydroid;c-2429771" wrote: The implication would be that new raids would replace the old one. That being said, Krayt will probably be cycled back at some point in the future, so those teams would be useful again.
Is this official information from the Devs, or just your personal opinion? This isn't intended to be snarky, I was just wondering if you have inside info as a moderator.
It was the way I read the original post about it, but based on what people are saying, it's possible that was just an assumption I was reading into the text. It could be they leave Krayt as a legacy raid, I guess, with the mark III moved to Endor raid...but to me that also seems weird because if we add a new one every 8 months, the raid list would just get really long. I also can't see them spending development time on something that will never see the light of day again after a few months. We've seen datacron abilities recycle...I guess I always just assumed the new raids would too.
Krayt hardly feels like a Legacy anything. I'm really hoping they let you alternate between the two, otherwise this new Raid setup is dumb AF.
You can do whatever raid you want, just like today. But Mk3 tokens will only be in the Featured Raid. Currently that raid is Krayt, but once the bike one comes out that will be the Featured Raid.
I get that. But the fast turnaround and need for leveling up specific squads for each is tiresome, especially if they crap these raids out every 3-4 months. Plus as I said, calling Krayt a "Legacy" raid seems IMO dumb since it's so new, whereas the old ones do feel like Legacy raids. Amnd is it definitive the MK3 is being removed from Krayt or is that still speculation based on the Feb post being kinda vague?
"crzydroid;c-2429771" wrote: The implication would be that new raids would replace the old one. That being said, Krayt will probably be cycled back at some point in the future, so those teams would be useful again.
Is this official information from the Devs, or just your personal opinion? This isn't intended to be snarky, I was just wondering if you have inside info as a moderator.
It was the way I read the original post about it, but based on what people are saying, it's possible that was just an assumption I was reading into the text. It could be they leave Krayt as a legacy raid, I guess, with the mark III moved to Endor raid...but to me that also seems weird because if we add a new one every 8 months, the raid list would just get really long. I also can't see them spending development time on something that will never see the light of day again after a few months. We've seen datacron abilities recycle...I guess I always just assumed the new raids would too.
Krayt hardly feels like a Legacy anything. I'm really hoping they let you alternate between the two, otherwise this new Raid setup is dumb AF.
You can do whatever raid you want, just like today. But Mk3 tokens will only be in the Featured Raid. Currently that raid is Krayt, but once the bike one comes out that will be the Featured Raid.
I get that. But the fast turnaround and need for leveling up specific squads for each is tiresome, especially if they crap these raids out every 3-4 months.
It could easily end up being 8-9 months, from May to Dec/Jan.
"crzydroid;c-2429771" wrote: The implication would be that new raids would replace the old one. That being said, Krayt will probably be cycled back at some point in the future, so those teams would be useful again.
Is this official information from the Devs, or just your personal opinion? This isn't intended to be snarky, I was just wondering if you have inside info as a moderator.
It was the way I read the original post about it, but based on what people are saying, it's possible that was just an assumption I was reading into the text. It could be they leave Krayt as a legacy raid, I guess, with the mark III moved to Endor raid...but to me that also seems weird because if we add a new one every 8 months, the raid list would just get really long. I also can't see them spending development time on something that will never see the light of day again after a few months. We've seen datacron abilities recycle...I guess I always just assumed the new raids would too.
Krayt hardly feels like a Legacy anything. I'm really hoping they let you alternate between the two, otherwise this new Raid setup is dumb AF.
You can do whatever raid you want, just like today. But Mk3 tokens will only be in the Featured Raid. Currently that raid is Krayt, but once the bike one comes out that will be the Featured Raid.
I think this is the most likely scenario, but we don't actually know for sure yet.
They did actually tell us this, so not sure why people keep saying we don't know. Sure, CG could always change their minds, but they literally said this.
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