So I'm playing in fleet arena and for a few days now I've noticed that it appears my ships that get both offense up and offense down at the same time are still hitting for crap compared to when they don't even have offensive buffs.My Phantom regularly can hit for 50+K with no offensive buffs. When it has offense up (50%+) it hits for 72-80K damage, which seems about right. However, when I end up with BOTH offense up and offense down, my phantom is hitting for 26-32K damage as if ONLY offense DOWN is being counted. This isn't a one time thing, I see this happening consistently. The same thing happens to tie advanced, slave 1, etc. If I have offense UP and offense DOWN, they should cancel each other out. Right? Seems like something is hinky and should be looked at because that ain't right. (Especially when the AI seems to not have an issue with both offense up and down on at once.)

"Kyno;c-1688265" wrote:Are they the same % effect?Unless I'm mistaken, all offense down/up % are the same. https://gaming-fans.com/star-wars-goh/swgoh-resources/buffs-debuffs-list/However, are there any additional unique effects that the opponent ships are using? I remember recently finding out that you can't cleanse stun from plague inflicted characters thinking that thrawn could cleanse them and noticing what I thought was a bug.

If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.

"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.^^^^^ this ........ 100 + 50 - 50% =75 100 -50 +50%=75 No matter the order of which works first simple maths state you will always loose 25%

"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.This could explains it, they dont cancel each other out before they are calculated. Seeing the opposing buffs doesnt mean no effect (which it should IMO), but just that they are both calculated into the equation.But wouldn't the equation be X - Y(X*0.5) + Z(X*0.5)= effective stat. Y and Z being 0 or 1 if the buff is present. X being the character stat (base not changed by buffs). Meaning that the buff or debuff is based on the " base stat" for the character, not the effective stat after a buff or debuff has been placed.I'm not sure if it is that way.

Offense up and Offense down combined = offense down?

mesa176750
6 years ago
"Kyno;c-1688265" wrote:
Are they the same % effect?

Unless I'm mistaken, all offense down/up % are the same.

https://gaming-fans.com/star-wars-goh/swgoh-resources/buffs-debuffs-list/

However, are there any additional unique effects that the opponent ships are using? I remember recently finding out that you can't cleanse stun from plague inflicted characters thinking that thrawn could cleanse them and noticing what I thought was a bug.
Ragnell_wielder
6 years ago
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.
Ragnell_wielder
6 years ago
"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.
treebunner
6 years ago
"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.

^^^^^ this ........ 100 + 50 - 50% =75
100 -50 +50%=75

No matter the order of which works first simple maths state you will always loose 25%
NyKynoe
6 years ago
"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.

This could explains it, they dont cancel each other out before they are calculated. Seeing the opposing buffs doesnt mean no effect (which it should IMO), but just that they are both calculated into the equation.

But wouldn't the equation be X - Y(X*0.5) + Z(X*0.5)= effective stat. Y and Z being 0 or 1 if the buff is present. X being the character stat (base not changed by buffs). Meaning that the buff or debuff is based on the " base stat" for the character, not the effective stat after a buff or debuff has been placed.

I'm not sure if it is that way.
VertigoBeast
6 years ago
"Kyno;c-1688309" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.

This could explains it, they dont cancel each other out before they are calculated. Seeing the opposing buffs doesnt mean no effect (which it should IMO), but just that they are both calculated into the equation.

But wouldn't the equation be X - Y(X*0.5) + Z(X*0.5)= effective stat. Y and Z being 0 or 1 if the buff is present. X being the character stat (base not changed by buffs). Meaning that the buff or debuff is based on the " base stat" for the character, not the effective stat after a buff or debuff has been placed.

I'm not sure if it is that way.

@Kyno the offense up and offense down buffs should both be drawing their 50% offense from the same starting value. Your equation is correct. The question is... is it bugged in fleet? Are there other factors that we haven't seen that could be causing some sort of change?
449710430e37db5
6 years ago
It actually cancels out because both the buff and debuff is off the Base offense value. So it's not 1 x 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75. The actual game mechanics is 1 + 0.5 - 0.5 = 1.
Ragnell_wielder
6 years ago
"Huatimus;c-1688559" wrote:
It actually cancels out because both the buff and debuff is off the Base offense value. So it's not 1 x 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75. The actual game mechanics is 1 + 0.5 - 0.5 = 1.

Is it confirmed it's additive and not multiplicative?
NyKynoe
6 years ago
"Valaraukar;c-1688858" wrote:
My understanding is that it is percentage. 100% adding 25% is 125%
Take away 25% and you have 93.75%, it coexisted but also decreased offense. Likewise, take away 25%, you have 75%. Add 25% to it and you have 93.75
Both ways it lowers, and the math checks out by percentage

"Ultra;c-1688317" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688290" wrote:
"Ephran;c-1688283" wrote:
If the down effect is calculated first and the up effect is calculated based off the new value they wouldn't exactly cancel out and the ship would cause less damage, but it shouldn't be all that much.

I thought they were 25%, with 50% it actually is significant. The math is 100 * .5 * 1.5 = 75, regardless of which is applied first, you'll always lose 25% of your attack power.
Interesting. I always thought it cancelled out but the math proves otherwise.

But that's not what the stat change does. They are percents of a value. They effect the base value of a toon. The base value is static and the effective value is the one after the calculation that is used in combat.

That math while sound math, it is not correct to the situation.
Ucmo777
6 years ago
great question op, and i love the discussion. hopefully a dev can offer the correct answer at some point.