Response to Raid Economy Update

If the personal reward track is more or less meaningless now, how about just use that for credits and and ship currency? Seems like an easy solution.

So i decided to make my own math couse i didnt belive many cool guys with spreadsheets
I callculated how much mk1 we were getting before in 30 days for 4 raids. My base data was max tickets for 30 days, no full gear from pit and haat ( 28 carbantis, 50 nubian), 8 th place in hstr and credits from cpit. Data was inluding credits, ship credits, mods materials, gear for g8 g12 from pit, haat hstr that can be obtain for mk1. So far the number is 115k mk1 what i was getting. Now i can get 86k per month so 29k mk1 less in rewards. It means for a year of playing it is 348k less mk1. It is 4 months rewards that are gone. So 33% NERF IN MK1. I didnt have time to calculate mk2 and mk3. I also didnt calculate get1 and get2. Maybe later couse i would love to see how much big nerf is for mk2.
If they would bring back credits than nerf would be much less only 15k per month so like 17%.
Not so happy about this so far. 4 months of rewards for mk1 are gone.

"Fieldgulls;c-2421693" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2421690" wrote:

"ShadowJediKnight;c-2421634" wrote:
They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

"kukoc2929;c-2421688" wrote:
Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

Maybe he made up those numbers to be facetious like CG is doing with their rewards equal to all previous raids calculations statement. It is a nerf no matter how many times they move the boxes around. They know it, we know it, and to me made things worse. Strike two.

Except, unless I'm mistaken, the math proves out their statement that it replaces simmed rewards. I'm pretty sure that's not in doubt - the 'nerf' only comes into play if you were doing HSTR and CPit AND can't hit a minimum box threshold in the new raid. But they're making that easier by shifting rewards forward on the reward track and lowering the thresholds for the prize boxes. Their statement was true that the overall rewards for Krayt haven't changed - but how many people were reaching the 130m box? what? 3500 people total? The break even point is now attainable and even surpassable by a LARGE number of guilds. The lower boxes will now reward MORE in raid currency than HSTR pays out, don't they? So we don't have to do CPit or HSTR anymore and we can play the new content and still get roughly equal or better value to what we were getting before.

I don't see how that's not a win. CPit was miserable and HSTR is as tired as my fase. I'm really REALLY glad my guild doesn't have to do HSTR any more - we've been clearing that raid with barely a thought for years now. Good riddance. (to be fair it was a great raid when it was fresh)

"herd_nerfer;c-2421701" wrote:

"Fieldgulls;c-2421693" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2421690" wrote:

"ShadowJediKnight;c-2421634" wrote:
They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

"kukoc2929;c-2421688" wrote:
Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

Maybe he made up those numbers to be facetious like CG is doing with their rewards equal to all previous raids calculations statement. It is a nerf no matter how many times they move the boxes around. They know it, we know it, and to me made things worse. Strike two.

Except, unless I'm mistaken, the math proves out their statement that it replaces simmed rewards. I'm pretty sure that's not in doubt - the 'nerf' only comes into play if you were doing HSTR and CPit AND can't hit a minimum box threshold in the new raid. But they're making that easier by shifting rewards forward on the reward track and lowering the thresholds for the prize boxes. Their statement was true that the overall rewards for Krayt haven't changed - but how many people were reaching the 130m box? what? 3500 people total? The break even point is now attainable and even surpassable by a LARGE number of guilds. The lower boxes will now reward MORE in raid currency than HSTR pays out, don't they? So we don't have to do CPit or HSTR anymore and we can play the new content and still get roughly equal or better value to what we were getting before.

I don't see how that's not a win. CPit was miserable and HSTR is as tired as my fase. I'm really REALLY glad my guild doesn't have to do HSTR any more - we've been clearing that raid with barely a thought for years now. Good riddance. (to be fair it was a great raid when it was fresh)

For 25mil in krayt guild gets less around 33% mk1 than before. So it can be 21k less if you do 9 raids in month. So 3 months less rewards in a year...

In totality it is not better….again sleight of hand. Rewards = currency and there is the price of items to buy with said currency. Need to focus on the entire picture. Don’t let them fool you…also only simmed raids where pit and HAAT. Then you had two other raid rewards.

We can keep discussing it but judging by the pack prices for their new Lord of the Trash Graphics game they won't ever change. The raid nerf is still in effect they just altered the distribution.

"MrRandyWatson;c-2421709" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2421690" wrote:

"ShadowJediKnight;c-2421634" wrote:
They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

"kukoc2929;c-2421688" wrote:
Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

1. Your guild actulaly completed the raid Monday morning but won't receive payout until Wednesday.
2. The next GAC round locks Monday night.
3. That raid currency could be used to get a character from G12 to R3 which makes them and their team now Datacron eligible.

You're honestly suggesting that's not a big deal? Its new to this raid system and its a step back.
Your point about the paycheck is actually perfect. You used to be paid every day but now your employer is saying they will pay you once a week. You're honestly suggesting thats not a difference that people should take note of?

Yes, I'm actually saying that after the first raid it makes absolutely no difference - just like after that first paycheck it makes absolutely no difference. You still get paid exactly the same thing that you would have got paid if you got it the day of - the only difference is waiting a few days. Does it make a difference right now today? In your case, yes, apparently. After next week it means nothing - makes no difference at all. None.

"Gawejn;c-2421707" wrote:


Yes, i know this post. I asked about base data. I didnt agree with it, so couse of that i did math. From my calculations for mk1 it is 33% nerf. Minimum. If you dont wanna belive me you can do the math. My base data was 30 days, maxed tickets 4 raids rewards so credits, ship credits, mods materials, , guild tokens, gear from pit, haat hstr ( no full gear and only can be obtained for mk1). Cpit data only credits. Place in hstr 8 and cpit 22.
29k mk1 less per month.
Mk2 and mk3 comparison is different calculation.
It was very simple math.

So you did the math based on above average performance in the raids you mentioned. That immediately skews your numbers to YOUR situation and not the average player. Everyone is getting the same rewards in the new raids so to make an apples to apples comparison you can't use outlier data.

Did you account for the Mk2 and Mk3 currencies or is your 33% figure only considering Mk1?

Edit: just re-read your post and caught the "Mk2 and Mk3 comparison is different calculation" - but you can't say that rewards are being nerfed by 33% and leave out two of the components of the rewards. Mk3 buys relic mats that cost lots of G12 gear to produce. Mk2 buys G12 gear that you were getting in other raids. Those rewards are very relevant to the comparison and to leave them out and say, "our rewards are being nerfed by 33%" is disingenuous at best.

"herd_nerfer;c-2421715" wrote:

"MrRandyWatson;c-2421709" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2421690" wrote:

"ShadowJediKnight;c-2421634" wrote:
They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

"kukoc2929;c-2421688" wrote:
Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

1. Your guild actulaly completed the raid Monday morning but won't receive payout until Wednesday.
2. The next GAC round locks Monday night.
3. That raid currency could be used to get a character from G12 to R3 which makes them and their team now Datacron eligible.

You're honestly suggesting that's not a big deal? Its new to this raid system and its a step back.
Your point about the paycheck is actually perfect. You used to be paid every day but now your employer is saying they will pay you once a week. You're honestly suggesting thats not a difference that people should take note of?

Yes, I'm actually saying that after the first raid it makes absolutely no difference - just like after that first paycheck it makes absolutely no difference. You still get paid exactly the same thing that you would have got paid if you got it the day of - the only difference is waiting a few days. Does it make a difference right now today? In your case, yes, apparently. After next week it means nothing - makes no difference at all. None.

"Gawejn;c-2421707" wrote:


Yes, i know this post. I asked about base data. I didnt agree with it, so couse of that i did math. From my calculations for mk1 it is 33% nerf. Minimum. If you dont wanna belive me you can do the math. My base data was 30 days, maxed tickets 4 raids rewards so credits, ship credits, mods materials, , guild tokens, gear from pit, haat hstr ( no full gear and only can be obtained for mk1). Cpit data only credits. Place in hstr 8 and cpit 22.
29k mk1 less per month.
Mk2 and mk3 comparison is different calculation.
It was very simple math.

So you did the math based on above average performance in the raids you mentioned. That immediately skews your numbers to YOUR situation and not the average player. Everyone is getting the same rewards in the new raids so to make an apples to apples comparison you can't use outlier data.

Did you account for the Mk2 and Mk3 currencies or is your 33% figure only considering Mk1?

The difference is psychological, not material. It’s easier to stomach waiting when you have something to do, like spend rewards and/or earn more tickets. Waiting to start something that has already started, or finish something that has been finished, leaves players with too much time to think about doing something else like another game. Krayt makes sense to have the 48 hour window because of the personal track rewards, but they need to be incentivizing.

As for the math, I’d remind that simmed rewards were static for evryone. I’ve done a bit of my own math, but I don’t have the probability tables for the gear boxes, so I will admit I have to rely on others a bit. However no calculations I have seen include everything (credits, shards, etc) and show the rewards equal previous raids.

"herd_nerfer;c-2421715" wrote:

"MrRandyWatson;c-2421709" wrote:

"herd_nerfer;c-2421690" wrote:

"ShadowJediKnight;c-2421634" wrote:
They cut the rewards by 70%. After the community called them out, they returned 20%. At the end of the day, they cut our rewards by 50%. And they think they can get away with this.

Tell the truth - you made up those numbers didn't you? Can you show me some actual math that supports the statement that they cut our rewards by 50%? If you can't show us how you arrived at these numbers then stop using them. It's simply not true.

I do think we're getting less now - and I'm not happy about that - but we've got much greater access to a lot of things that we didn't have before AND we have a choice of what rewards we take and when we take them. It's going to take some time to figure out exactly where the new pressure points are and formulate a strategy to work around them.

In my opinion there are still things that CG needs to do to right the boat - more consistent access to bronzium wire scrap, credits, and ship building materials for instance - but throwing out ridiculous numbers just ensures that they'll ignore your post and might actually convince another player who hasn't done their due diligence that you're stating facts, when you aren't. All that does is create noise that makes the conversation more difficult to parse for someone that cares to try.

"kukoc2929;c-2421688" wrote:
Probably it was addressed but why keep the Sith RAID on for 3 days since we finish it in 20 min ??? with that animations running from one cinematic to another ... i just hope its just a BUG.

This is an artifact of retro-fitting the old raid system into the new one. It won't change and if you think about it - it wouldn't matter if it did - your guild can still only earn raid tickets at a fixed maximum rate. If everyone always got 600 tickets a day and your guild is full, at best you would be able to launch it every three days. So instead of getting your rewards an hour after someone cleared the raid, now you get your raid rewards right before the next one starts. Your employer probably does the same thing with your paychecks. There's literally no difference except for that first raid - you have to wait a couple of days for the rewards. After that, you're back on schedule and it never matters again.

I'm not sure why people are so focused on this - this is literally a non-issue but it's taking up a lot of oxygen in the conversation.

1. Your guild actulaly completed the raid Monday morning but won't receive payout until Wednesday.
2. The next GAC round locks Monday night.
3. That raid currency could be used to get a character from G12 to R3 which makes them and their team now Datacron eligible.

You're honestly suggesting that's not a big deal? Its new to this raid system and its a step back.
Your point about the paycheck is actually perfect. You used to be paid every day but now your employer is saying they will pay you once a week. You're honestly suggesting thats not a difference that people should take note of?

Yes, I'm actually saying that after the first raid it makes absolutely no difference - just like after that first paycheck it makes absolutely no difference. You still get paid exactly the same thing that you would have got paid if you got it the day of - the only difference is waiting a few days. Does it make a difference right now today? In your case, yes, apparently. After next week it means nothing - makes no difference at all. None.

"Gawejn;c-2421707" wrote:


Yes, i know this post. I asked about base data. I didnt agree with it, so couse of that i did math. From my calculations for mk1 it is 33% nerf. Minimum. If you dont wanna belive me you can do the math. My base data was 30 days, maxed tickets 4 raids rewards so credits, ship credits, mods materials, , guild tokens, gear from pit, haat hstr ( no full gear and only can be obtained for mk1). Cpit data only credits. Place in hstr 8 and cpit 22.
29k mk1 less per month.
Mk2 and mk3 comparison is different calculation.
It was very simple math.

So you did the math based on above average performance in the raids you mentioned. That immediately skews your numbers to YOUR situation and not the average player. Everyone is getting the same rewards in the new raids so to make an apples to apples comparison you can't use outlier data.

Did you account for the Mk2 and Mk3 currencies or is your 33% figure only considering Mk1?

I dont want to convince you. Rewards will convince you, when you will expierience tru some time how fast you are progressing in new mode of currencies.
I only compared data for mk1. It is answer how much mk1 i need to get the same rewards for mk1 if i do sim on pit haat place 8 in hstr and 22 in cpit. The spreadsheet ( @Ultra ) you mentioned contains data for placing in top10 hstr too. But their calculation is mistaken in my opinion. I did the math and those data are not correct.
Btw I still need to make calculations for mk2 and mk3.

I think one of the problems we're seeing here is that everyone is using a different set of data to make their calculations, and plugging in values originating from different baselines. You absolutely can't get an objective picture if you're only using data for your own situation. That may point to a nerf for you but it doesn't speak to what is going on for the average player.

This could be rectified by CG showing their own calculations, or at least providing us with the relevant data so that we could do the math ourselves. Something tells me that won't be forthcoming. Regardless there are still unquantifiable values that people are not considering - the largest one being the value of choosing your rewards and how that affects roster development. I think everyone is sleeping on that one, but maybe that's just me.