Running out of Salvage?

"Kisakee;c-2172527" wrote:
The real problems are not any 'bottlenecks of whatever' or introducing new gear like Kyrotech but how fast people try to advance. The resource income doesn't fit their speed and then they tend to ask for a solution for their self made material shortcomings.
There are three things to happen on this point: 1 - CG gives us more opportunities to get things faster but that's unlikely. 2 - Folks need to spend money to keep pace, possible but unwanted for most of them. 3 - Slowing down the process and finding a balance of income and usage for almost everything, again possible but unwanted in most cases.
For me i go with #3 as i have a patience beyond the galaxy, if i can't afford it today i just wait for tomorrow. Others may be faster than me at the start but in the long run i always catch up on some point. The game is so much easier if you don't stress yourself everyday, give it a try.
And for #1 it won't help much as this will become true for everyone so nobody will have a real advantage.

Well said

"DarkHelmet1138;c-2172604" wrote:

"kello_511;c-2172575" wrote:
The math here is pretty simple.

Since relics were introduced, I’ve done nothing differently in regards to my acquiring of low level gear - I still farm the same ways I did before, I still buy those 4x credit items from the shops, I still complete low level events as always.

However, since I started relicing, by hoard of low level gears has gone down. That means that they are being used faster than they are acquired.

The obvious conclusion is that at some point, they will run out unless my spending of them decreases or my income of them increases.

If you are in the same boat, then the crunch is definitely coming for you too.
If you are applying relics at a slow enough rate that your hoard remains steady, you might not ever feel the crunch.

For me personally, I can see it imminently. I should be able to complete JML and his requirements (my third GL toon) but after that I’ll pretty much be out.

Not really. They recently added the challenge tier 3 to all the assualt battles which gives you relic materials. So unless you are beating all of those every time, you haven't maximized your relic income.

So there may be room to grow that income for some to prevent a shortage before they run out. Even if they are currently burning through a stash.

Do you really believe that the extra relic materials from t3 challenges will alleviate this crunch?

It’s a budget question of income vs. expenses. I guess if the few extra materials from those challenges are enough that your hoard stops depleting, then that has solved it for you.

For myself (and I think most people commenting here), my gearing is happening at a Much faster rate than the acquisition of this low level gear supports. And I don’t feel that my gearing rate is excessive given that I’m not spending money to supplement it. Even spending 500-600 crystals a day on energy refreshes is enough to far exceed the rate that those low level gears come in.

Relicing already provides enough additional gates as it is, in my opinion the lowest levels of relic materials should not be yet another gate.

"DarkHelmet1138;c-2172622" wrote:

"kello_511;c-2172612" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-2172604" wrote:

"kello_511;c-2172575" wrote:
The math here is pretty simple.

Since relics were introduced, I’ve done nothing differently in regards to my acquiring of low level gear - I still farm the same ways I did before, I still buy those 4x credit items from the shops, I still complete low level events as always.

However, since I started relicing, by hoard of low level gears has gone down. That means that they are being used faster than they are acquired.

The obvious conclusion is that at some point, they will run out unless my spending of them decreases or my income of them increases.

If you are in the same boat, then the crunch is definitely coming for you too.
If you are applying relics at a slow enough rate that your hoard remains steady, you might not ever feel the crunch.

For me personally, I can see it imminently. I should be able to complete JML and his requirements (my third GL toon) but after that I’ll pretty much be out.

Not really. They recently added the challenge tier 3 to all the assualt battles which gives you relic materials. So unless you are beating all of those every time, you haven't maximized your relic income.

So there may be room to grow that income for some to prevent a shortage before they run out. Even if they are currently burning through a stash.

Do you really believe that the extra relic materials from t3 challenges will alleviate this crunch?

It’s a budget question of income vs. expenses. I guess if the few extra materials from those challenges are enough that your hoard stops depleting, then that has solved it for you.

For myself (and I think most people commenting here), my gearing is happening at a Much faster rate than the acquisition of this low level gear supports. And I don’t feel that my gearing rate is excessive given that I’m not spending money to supplement it. Even spending 500-600 crystals a day on energy refreshes is enough to far exceed the rate that those low level gears come in.

Relicing already provides enough additional gates as it is, in my opinion the lowest levels of relic materials should not be yet another gate.

Yes to an extent. You get 120 kudos from challenge tier one a month and 120 carbonite boards if you do tiers 2 and 3. You get 90 kyros a month from dailies.

So you have enough to g13 two characters a month at that rate (assuming no farming) it takes 200 carb boards to R7 so the you have enough for half a character a month with no use of the gear for crafting.

But you also need kyros for lower level gear for many new characters and you don't necessarily need to r7 every g13. So you probably only g13 one character a month from free materials and on average they only need r4 or r5. So it's actually pretty close.

Now obviously, you farm materials so you can get kyros faster with crystals. But you can do the same for carbonite boards so the comparison of how many you get each month from events is probably more meaningful than to add in all the possible farming choices.

Ok, but what you are really saying then is that even the lowest level of relic materials are meant to be as rare as Kyros?

Maybe you’re correct about this. If so, I think it’s an even poorer design that I did before.

To get a toon from G13 to a meaningful relic level takes already introduces enough additional bottlenecks as it is. You need the higher level salvage (eating up more valuable gear) as well as the different relic materials.

Adding an additional crunch at the lower level Of relics seems wrong (to me).
It feels like adding a green ability mat crunch for zetas or needing to farm tier1 training droids for the next level cap increase.

As annoying as it may be to be stuck behind a stun gun wall, a kyro crunch or to be farming gold gear for the high end relic salvage is, those bottlenecks are at least consistent with the level of development for the character.

Having to go farm level 1 battles for relic salvage material feels like a big step backwards.

"MaruMaru;c-2172624" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-2172569" wrote:

"MaruMaru;c-2172396" wrote:

"DarkHelmet1138;c-2172381" wrote:
It seems the "average player" may be relicing some characters further than needed because they have the material. Now that the salvage is becoming more scarce to them, they may need to decide which characters need the relics the most.

Jkl may be an example. Maybe TFV can beat anything he needs JKL for with R3. Assuming you have a GL for arena and can get through the ls tb with jedi Luke at R3, then there isn't a lot of other benefit other than a GAC counter (which may work fine at R3 or R5 I don't know). And if you are relicing just for GAC, you are getting a poor return on investment. Assuming you are in DIV 1 and can get kyber (which doesn't require a lot of reliced toons or any GLs), you get pretty close to the maximum rewards. Anything above that threshold is simply bragging rights.

And even for TB, an arguement can be made that putting lower relics on multiple teams will give more benefit than R7 on a few meta characters.

And having all 4 GLs may be good for bragging rights but doesn't provide much else. You can crush it in arena with only one. Or run a counter team and still do just fine.

They work in tb but 13 to 15 relics for one tb team is pretty steep for the added rewards.

I generally try to make sure that anything I relic will make a difference in some aspect of the game. I'm going for papa palps because I'm closer and it will cement a good arena ranking for awhile and give me most of an imp trooper team to beat assault battles and ds tb.

I'll probably do jml after that for some better ls teams since my ls needs work. But I will be choosy at first on which toons I do since at that point I won't likely need to worry about arena.

After that. I may go after Rey or Kylo but it's doubtful at that point. Getting jml and papa palps puts you in pretty good shape with both tbs and assuming one of them can solo hstr as well (which is likely since most new characters are better) there really isn't enough benefit to go back and get them. Not enough to be worth relicing 30 characters at least.

I'm a day 1 f2p with 6.4m gp and 59 toons at relics. I may have put a leash on it and kept at 6.0m gp, but lower than that would be roster stagnation just to not get bottlenecked with these. I'm not bottlenecked yet either, but going there for sure. Naturally you can guess r3 jkls don't cut it at this gp.

I'm not arguing that you have to go nuts to hit the bottleneck. But it does make it where you hit it sooner.

I'm not a day one player. The game was about a year along when I started and I took an 8 mo break recently after the malak fiasco (the reason I don't have any GLs). And my GP is almost 5 mil.

So I don't doubt that 6 mil for day one ftp is a fairly low gp as things go. Though, the first year I missed likely didn't affect gp that much since max gear at the time was relatively low.

Anyway, I was just pointing out that some with the issue may have reliced some toons a bit too eagerly for GAC. What seems vital today is only ok a year from now and trash 2 years from now.

For example, anyone that has reliced Phoenix has no one to blame but themselves. There are other teams as well that are questionable but Phoenix is the example. When relics came out, many were still using Phoenix for gac but they had little use elsewhere. So relicing them was probably solely for gac at the time. Now they are pretty much useless.

I'd even argue that relicing some meta teams isn't necessary. I only recently unlocked GAS and mine will probably sit at five stars for awhile due to GLs. I don't need him for arena. I will probably star and relic him when I'm done with papa palps but only him. The rest of the 501st probably not. I can relic one character and put him in as a GL counter or I can relic 5 and have him as a GL counter and a decent GAC team under shak to.

But in six months that team will only be ok. So I'm going to skip it. And I know they are needed for ls tb but I haven't seen anything in Ki Amundi's kit that justifies 5 high relic characters to unlock.

I wasn't talking about whether any gp is ok for any terms of playing&spending. It's just about individual developing speed. My philosophy is the game shouldn't be pushing you to hoard too much. For the examples you gave, I had them at the time they were necessary for arena and arena is the thing that makes me develop so fast.

Naturally anything drops down a tier of quality as time passes and even metas falls to obscurity in 2 year intervals. It's logical for a player coming from behind these tides to skip some of those and try to foresee what will hold longer. And just as naturally you can't expect older accounts start skipping what's good at any moment.

To an extent. You can't have every marque instantly at 7 stars and reliced and be ftp even with a launch account. So you still have to choose to either skip certain teams or whale.

And you can stay competitive in arena by skipping about every other meta or so. So it isn't necessary to chase every meta.

For example, you could have skipped GAS and hoarded for Rey with little immediate consequence. Assuming you have Darth revan, you can throw raid han in there at g12 and counter most GAS teams. Yeah your climb is more difficult for awhile but it is manageable.

And if you have Rey or Kylo, you can skip the other with no consequence in arena. You can probably skip the new ones if you have Rey or Kylo and still do ok.

Now I'm not saying endgame ftp players should skip every other meta. But with the ever growing requirements for a new meta, it may be needed from time to time.

Good luck to those that expect something will be done about this resource crunch.
Resource crunches are just replaced with another one, so if it isn't this one it will just be another one to replace it. The only thing i expect to eventually see is the mysterious gear maker to help optimize conversion, and I don't even have high hopes that it will be anytime soon :tm:

I have a solution for the Chromium Crunch.

You know those Blue MK 7 pieces that people have tons of salvage for, but can’t craft? That are really efficient to get Chromium salvage but only used for a few toons at gear 6-7?

You can buy 5 MK 7 BlasTech Weapon Mods in the guild store. Fully crafted. 150 Guild Currency.

That nets you 33 Chromium Transitors.

"TVF;c-2172668" wrote:

"MaruMaru;c-2172662" wrote:

"TVF;c-2172644" wrote:

"TVF;c-2172565" wrote:

"MaruMaru;c-2172396" wrote:
I'm a day 1 f2p with 6.4m gp and 59 toons at relics. I may have put a leash on it and kept at 6.0m gp, but lower than that would be roster stagnation just to not get bottlenecked with these. I'm not bottlenecked yet either, but going there for sure. Naturally you can guess r3 jkls don't cut it at this gp.

How so?

@MaruMaru

Don't wanna go off topic with you. If you are talking about r3 jkl, the answer is a question: why not leave a gl at r3 because it works fine like that too?

Yes I am talking about JKL at R3, and if the GL works fine at R3, why wouldn't you?

Doesn't answer my question, which is why doesn't a R3 JKL cut it at your GP?

I agree. If you can win in arena and anywhere in the game you use a character at R3 there is no reason to go higher unless things change. The character being jkl or even a GL doesn't change that.

Of course you have to eventually R7 jkl if you want Jml but he's not even out yet so there's no hurry.

And assuming you reach kyber in div 1 for GAC, gearing just for that is a waste of resources in my opinion.

@Sewpot
For chromium and only cost 150 raid currency. Buy it whenever it's available and you'll never run short (65 relic toons and high relic levels just ask anyone here and they tell you lol). Carbonite, 500 crystals for 100 is good value and buy that every week but Bronzium is my issue

"scuba;c-2172661" wrote:
Good luck to those that expect something will be done about this resource crunch.
Resource crunches are just replaced with another one, so if it isn't this one it will just be another one to replace it. The only thing i expect to eventually see is the mysterious gear maker to help optimize conversion, and I don't even have high hopes that it will be anytime soon :tm:

I think the next big content (raid?) will just increase the power level of relic tiers (requiring unique pieces of signal data and scraps) and hand out scraps and signal data for r1-r5 as reward to ease the earlier levels by a little bit

"TargetEadu;c-2172696" wrote:

"Saada;c-2172687" wrote:
@Sewpot
For chromium and only cost 150 raid currency. Buy it whenever it's available and you'll never run short (65 relic toons and high relic levels just ask anyone here and they tell you lol). Carbonite, 500 crystals for 100 is good value and buy that every week but Bronzium is my issue

... I just said that?
But you managed to find proof of it in the guild store so... sure. Proof I didn’t make this up I guess.

Energy refreshes on LS 1-D or F are a little more efficient to farm Carbonite than buying it with crystals, but that only works for the first three. It’s a decent deal for the gear ratio.

Bronzium I also haven’t found a good solution for... the MK 5 datapads someone suggested is a start, but you can’t get massive quantities like you can with Chromuim or sometimes Carbonite.

I was on an earlier page when I tagged sewpot and didn't see your response lol. I mentioned this to my guild earlier in the week so wasn't trying to steal your post. But no harm in doubling up ?