TW matchmaking

Hmmmm this isn't going to be easy.

Cerivex wrote:

I know everyone talks about GAC matchmaking and yes it's important that we talk about it but i just wanted to mention that TW has the same issue.

They definitely don't.  Match making in the 2 game modes are totally different.

Cerivex wrote:

I'm the guy planning TW for my guild and the recent matchmaking is more then horrible.

Meaning you've lost 2 or 3 in a row?  Congratulations then, if you've lost 3 in a row, you'll basically be given a free pass on the next one.

Cerivex wrote:

Now i got a serious question, how am i supposed to keep my guildmates motivated when we face guilds with 50 Mil more GP or even 100 mil more GP. I added the last 2 matchups as screenshots. What are we, what am i supposed to do? 

So... the match making isn't based on the guild GP, but the GP of the guild members that sign up.  OK, yes.......this does lead to issues.  However, the GP difference in guilds, isn't the issue.

Cerivex wrote:

that would just mean i as a planner wasn't good enough

I very much doubt you are the factor in you and your guild losing.

Cerivex wrote:

Facing guilds where you basically have no chance from the start

This only tends to happen when you've won 2 or 3 in a row.  Then you'll face something that specializes in TW and basically min-maxes your face off.

Here are a few facts.

1. Match making is based on GP (a terrible way to match-make).  However, it's based on 'active GP'.  I.e. the amount of GP that signed up for the TW.
2. Your win/loss streak is taken into account.  I think.....up to 3 wins/losses.  Therefore if you're on a win/loss streak you'll get harder/easier opponents.

CG's level of concern for TW is even lower than their concern for GAC, if you can believe it.  GAC hasn't gotten an update in over 3 years, TW hasn't gotten on in over four.  The general expectation is that you're going to get 2 matches where you get slaughtered and 2 matches where you can win.  But that's based on a couple different factors and sometimes you just get a couple guilds in that "easy" part that are TW try-hards that your guild outnumbers, but can still beat you.  

Dont' hold your breath that CG will update TW or GAC.  They've been on autopilot for at least a year now with little actual engagement, other than some interaction from Meathead and his team that he does on his own.

The leadership at CG doesn't give a rip about interaction, our ideas, or our concerns.  Only about us spending money.  They definitely don't prioritize bugs or game stability because every update makes things worse.  But I guess they get paid anyway, so as long as they get a check, the game's quality isn't a concern.  And TW is lower on the list than those since sometimes bugs prevent us from buying one of their rubbish packs.

I think one of the issues is that the 2nd fact you stated can quite massively diminish the 1st fact. 

My guild (~ 650m GP, doesn’t care about TW) has drawn a 621m GP guild for the current war. But they’ve gone in with 37 signed up to our 45.

Our active GP is around 590m, but our opponent - even if their lowest 13 players were the ones who didn’t sign up - can have no more than 480m active GP. 

They might beat us, of course, as they have a much better TW record than us, but most of their wins seem to be against guilds smaller than them in general. 

The TW matchmaking is worse now than it was before when many of us begged for a rework. I’m genuinely scared to think about how much worse they could make it if they rework it again. 

They definitely don't.  Match making in the 2 game modes are totally different.

You yourself say otherwise in the same post you make. you assumed that we lost 2 TWs in a row, would mean this would be the 3rd and the next one we get paired to a weaker guild and win. that in itself is bad matchmaking. if i need 3 horrible matchmakings to have 1 or 2 good ones where we overpower the other guild then what is that? 

Its not exactly the same issue as in GAC but it is still horrible matchmaking just like in GAC. We also won against a 500 mil GP guild, its still a horrible matchup, if you get matched to a 11 mil GP account in GAC and win because they dont play, you technically win so why complain? its the fun thats missing, if the enemy takes things seriously then you just lose. That is what is the issue.

For example, this time the enemy has 16 ahsokas, we have 3. Even if 10 of them dont sign up and they all have ahsokas they still have double the ammount. And that is just an example. The same thing can be applied to hobo ezra or ds rey. 

It matchmaking is based on active GP then youre actively punished for having inflated GP, which at the same time is required for TB to get more stars, especially as a mid game/early game guild.

It doesnt make sense no matter how you twist it

how am i supposed to keep my guildmates motivated

You're not. Set defense, chill, collect 2nd place rewards for 0 effort. Play to win when you get a favorable matchup. Put effort into guild activities that aren't tied up in an imperfect matchmaking system: raid and TB. The raid in particular is entirely within your control. O66 is solved, we know what teams to build, how to mod them, and we know the strategy to win and get that raid loot.

I'm finding it hard to follow you, tbh.

Cerivex wrote:

HM wrote: They definitely don't.  Match making in the 2 game modes are totally different.

Cerivex wrote: You yourself say otherwise in the same post you make.

Where have I mentioned any issues with GAC?  I have mentioned GAC anywhere.  I certainly haven't mentioned how GAC matches work.

Cerivex wrote:

you assumed that we lost 2 TWs in a row, would mean this would be the 3rd and the next one we get paired to a weaker guild and win.

Well............I asked the question.  

harvestmouse1 wrote:

Meaning you've lost 2 or 3 in a row? 

It wasn't rhetorical, but my guess was because you said  

Cerivex wrote:

the recent matchmaking is more then horrible.

that you'd probably lost a 2 or 3, and that your due an easy one.

Cerivex wrote:

the next one we get paired to a weaker guild and win. that in itself is bad matchmaking. if i need 3 horrible matchmakings to have 1 or 2 good ones where we overpower the other guild then what is that? 

100% agreed.  It's not good match-making.  Don't get me wrong, I think TW match making isn't good.  However, it's not easy, as you have no idea who is and isn't going to sign up.  You can't really go on past form if the 3 or 4 guys that did the most work don't sign up for the next TW.  It's not easy.

Cerivex wrote:

Its not exactly the same issue as in GAC but it is still horrible matchmaking just like in GAC.

That's an opinion.  I disagree that GAC has horrible match-making.  I think GAC has a few issues, yet.  However, I believe in the ladder.    There's no actual match-making maths going on with GAC, unlike TW.  You simply play those closest to you on the ladder.  So, it's not just like GAC.

Cerivex wrote:

its the fun thats missing, if the enemy takes things seriously then you just lose. That is what is the issue.

I can relate to this.  The spirit of the competition and how matches are intended.  The GAC issue you mention (large accounts that don't play) does need to be fixed.  You're right the fun is more important (IMO) than the result.  TW is trickier though.  Whether it's fun or not is more than just one person's opinion.  Also, even with mis-matches you can still do some work.

But you know....I'm picking hairs.  You're right matches should be competitive in TW and GAC.  I think I could fix GAC with only a few minor changes.  However, could I fix TW.  I think the only way would be to use a ladder, like GAC.  I can't see any other way to stop sand-bagging.  And how popular would a ladder be?  You, yourself have said you think the GAC system is horrible.

Cerivex wrote:

It matchmaking is based on active GP then youre actively punished for having inflated GP,

Hmmmm are players deliberately min-maxing their accounts for TW though?  Are the rewards or the pressure from the guild (even those that specialise in TW) worth min-maxing your account.  As you said, you'd lose out in TB and individual rewards if you deliberately kept your GP low for TW.  Are their guilds doing this?  I doubt it.

What guilds do though, is limit the amount of players that sign up.  The amount of teams you set per zone is the amount of players (in the guild with the fewer sign ups).  Guilds definitely do this.  Comfortable in the knowledge that those that signed up can post defences and clear the opposing guild's defences.  

That could definitely be something to look at actually.  How many teams are set per zone.  These guilds that go on year long win streaks would definitely need to adapt if they had to set more teams per zone than they had players signed up.

Cerivex wrote:

It doesnt make sense no matter how you twist it

I think you've misunderstood the tone of my post.  I wasn't disagreeing with your overall sentiment.  I agree that TW match-making sucks.  I was simply clarifying a few facts and explaining the logistics of how the game mode works.  

If you don't like my post.  Have a look at DarjeloSalas post below mine.  It adds more insight to what I wrote.

TW really need to move from the on-the-fly matchmaking and have something by ranking based, similar to grand arena. Groups of 4 guilds vying for places at the end of the week with something like the skill rating in GAC.

It won’t totally eliminate horrible matches (see e.g. some guilds that only try if it’s an easy matchup where they get to steamroller some poor guild 100M below them) but it will vastly reduce it and make more competitive matches. Week-to-week ranking wouldn’t be affected by sign up numbers so the incentive to sit out is removed so no sandbagging (sorry I meant ‘TW optional’ the politically correct word for it.

Add in a reward structure that incentives higher rankings and we should have a fair, competitive game mode

Let me try and explain

harvestmouse1 wrote:

Where have I mentioned any issues with GAC? I have mentioned GAC anywhere. I certainly haven't mentioned how GAC matches work.

Nono that wasnt meant as a response to you just more of a clarification on my part. I just wanted to say that i know the matchmaking is different but still horrendous in their own way. At least thats my opinion

harvestmouse1 wrote:

It wasn't rhetorical, but my guess was because you said

One of them is our current ongoing matchup, the other one we lost. The one before we won against a guild with 50 mil more GP. I dont know how but we barely managed to win.

harvestmouse1 wrote:

That's an opinion. I disagree that GAC has horrible match-making.

In the higher arenas like kyber and aurodium i agree, its pretty ok. I was more referring to carbonite and the lower GAC brackets. Shouldve clarified that.

harvestmouse1 wrote:

Hmmmm are players deliberately min-maxing their accounts for TW though?

Not necessarily min-maxing for TW but if you min-max for TB you get the issue in TW that you get paired to guilds who arent min-maxing in TB. If you deliberatly bolster your GP to get more stars in TB you would get matchups in TW with guilds that are perhaps not min-maxing for that gamemode. Aka they could get the same ammount of stars in TB but their roster is a lot more competitive overall.

harvestmouse1 wrote:

If you don't like my post. Have a look at DarjeloSalas post below mine. It adds more insight to what I wrote.

Oh quite the opposite, im really thankful to get feedback and engagement into what i wrote. I myself am just trying to clarify what i meant or if i think i was misunderstood somewhere. I also wrote this at work so i hadnt had the time to look over everything again and watch my tone haha.

Cerivex wrote:

It doesnt make sense no matter how you twist it

This was meant toward their matchup system in TW and not your comment ^^ sorry if i wasnt to clear about it

There have been plenty of complaints about the TW matchmaking.  They really need to take into account more than the most recent 2 or 3 TWs. Active GP seems to be a secondary aspect.  It can seem quite a mystery how some of these matchups are made, especially when you find yourself up against a guild that has won practically all their matches for the past 3 months and has much more active GP than yours does.  

zi2gx2uwva24 wrote:

TW really need to move from the on-the-fly matchmaking and have something by ranking based, similar to grand arena. Groups of 4 guilds vying for places at the end of the week with something like the skill rating in GAC.

While I do agree (massive fan of ladder systems) there would be issues.  During the summer of last year the biggest guilds in the game started to drop TW from their activities.  

This was partly a protest in there was so much to do and that they really didn't need the rewards.

If guilds are still/start to/feel inclined to do this, it'll ruin the ladder.  Rewards would probably need to be improved and in some way lessen the stress of 'guild life'.  E.g. make TB and Raid battles instantly uploadable.