Update on zFinn Changes Coming Next Update [MEGA]

One Question:

will I still be able to autosolo hAAT within 30 minutes with zFinn, C3PO, BB8, Han Solo, CLS ?

And there goes my favourite Zeta leadership in the game. Zeta Finn was the one that took me into the top 20 of arena when he got his zeta and kept me there until RJT showed up. I was literally the only dude not running CLS in the top 50. He was my first Zeta. The OG Finn zeta you will be missed. RIP...

Happy that they decided to refund Zeta to give people a choice. I think I will re-apply it, just for the nostalgia if nothing else :)

So thanks a lot cg for making haat that much more annoyingly cumbersome.

Thanks also for wrecking a great arena anti meta squad

Thanks for from the back of the cheap seats.

"Otsego;c-1817208" wrote:
One Question:

will I still be able to autosolo hAAT within 30 minutes with zFinn, C3PO, BB8, Han Solo, CLS ?

Really doesn't seem like it

"Droideka;c-1817089" wrote:

"MadScientist92;c-1817049" wrote:

"Arcaver;c-1817042" wrote:
AGAIN, change the **** raid, and stop nerfing the characters we use!

Give Treya an unstoppable tenacity increase per hit, and that would change so much on this raid.

How many other things would that break? Just curious. There are other setups for p3

A couple. CLS would be able to solo it much more easily. They get TM when debuffs are resisted, and if Traya is resisting every debuff, even ones that fully geared 3PO will be able to solo P3.

Could add that once Treya's Tenacity is increased to a certain amount she gets a passive (like Prepared) and characters no longer gain bonus turn meter. Like Darth Revan's ability for characters who have protection up.

"Ginger;c-1817227" wrote:

"SmurfLAX28;c-1817179" wrote:
Whatever though, at least they are doing the decent thing of giving a refund.... Sucks that I have to start using Revan in Arena for these nonsensical mirror matches

The decent thing would be to refund all resistance characters' mats and gear and let us decide whether we want to level and gear them or not. Without the old leadership ability all the gear I've dumped on characters like Poe is an absolute waste. Same goes for droids with the HK rework.

When you mess with a leadership ability you mess with lots of characters. Every character that was relevant only due to that leadership ability is now wasted resources that could be better used elsewhere, especially if zetas were involved.

With what I've pumped into droids and Finn teams I've basically lost most of the gear I've farmed the past few months because the characters I geared are irrelevant without their leader. God forbid anyone not PURCHASE the intended meta team like Revan or separatist battle droid Grievous and instead do something different like try to revive their pre ships HK lead droid team with G12 zeta Grievous on it who now just collects dust.

What gets in my nerves is that they punish anyone who strays from whatever meta they're trying to sell and rework characters and ruin teams with no concern for anything other than the current pay 2 win meta. But I guess that's their business model, and my preferred playstyle is more in finding teams out of the norm that work well. I don't like being a cookie cutter player.

Right?

They claim they are doing this for the long term health of the game? What a joke. These types of actions are the worst possible ones for the long term health of the game. Star Wars fans are diverse, but are primarily composed of geeks and nerds (I am both). Nerds get dissatisfied with games where they can't bring their own intellect into play.

Guess what happens when game creators rigidly pick and choose which teams of which factions are going to be useful? People don't get to make a team out of what they have lying around to beat it. They have to follow the lead. So there go the nerds.

Now the geeks can't even hope to succeed with their faction of choice that represents them, so there go the geeks.

Limiting the game so much is literally taking all the fun out of this collection game. It's no fun to play a collection game where you don't get to pick and choose who you farm. And saying you still get to pick would be a waste of everyone's time. Not being able to do anything with who you pick is the same as not letting you pick.

Micro transaction games have longevity when people pay for an advantage not when they pay to win. This is the same principle. Forcing everyone to do the same thing is the same thing as making it pay to win.

No, if they want to ensure the long term health of the game, they need to keep introducing these new OP mechanics but make them more plug and play so people can compose their own teams to use instead of having to use the team that CG designed to enjoy the utility of any new shiny.

They need to quit destroying old content to make sure their new content is supreme. That's laziness and somewhat treacherous. The proper path is to fix your "new" content so that it doesn't make things happen that you don't want, not nerfing old content.

You want to combine the best aspects of MMORPG and mobile games? Well one of the best and most important aspects of MMORPGs is that you get to choose many paths and they are all viable. Let's try getting that back in the game before you permanently injure the long term health of it.

So to ensure the future health of this game, they need to add a looping tm gain mechanic to every major faction instead of removing it from them.

"YaeVizsla;c-1817199" wrote:

"Dhuriya24;c-1817156" wrote:
You're delusional if your really going to try and blame me/the playerbase for Finn getting nerfed. Unless you started playing this game 4 months ago, you should have basic knowledge of how this team works and has worked in the past. This team has always worked by generating a TM train that prevents opponents from attacking and the developers never saw a problem with Finn's leadership until people started using Han to outspeed Revan with c3po.

zFinn's interaction with c3po in the raid and PVP is not an exploit, its a mechanic that the developers dont enjoy existing in the game because of an actually badly designed raid and zFinn's ability to compete with high tier teams.

If you really read my post, you would see that I was asking for a non-Revan team that can reliably compete in the meta, but one cant be listed because it doesnt exist.

If zFinn got ousted out of the meta due to teams that just happen to counter him, whatever thats normal. CG coming out of the woodwork to nerf an old leadership just because they dont think it's fair to people who own Revan is once again, just as petty as you stalking me for weeks.

1) I ain't stalking you. I'll take your word for it that I replied to a few of your posts on a public forum in a couple of the larger threads of the moment. You have a generic internet number name and no real avatar; I do not remember who the heck you are.

2) I never blamed the playerbase for zFinn getting reworked. The interaction itself is a problem. It had to be changed for the health of the game. But you should not be upset that the game is being fixed.

3) Exploit loops are still mechanics. That does not make them stop being exploit loops. They're unhealthy for the game, and need to be fixed. Up to 175% TM gain for popping a bubble is an inherently broken mechanic in an ATB system that just begs to become a loop. The 3PO/Han/Chewie lineup takes it to extremes, with the potential to dovetail you into an infinite turn meter loop at tick zero of combat unless they have a specific ability to prevent it without action (and sometimes even if they do) is not healthy for the game, needs to be fixed, and you are not entitled to additional compensation because the exploit loop you were profiting from gets fixed.

4) zFinn did not suddenly become a problem because of P3 Sith or 3PO or interactions with Revan. P3 Sith was the specific inciting incident, but it's been an issue for a lot longer. Most problems in a game exist for some period of time, then there is a specific event where it goes to far, and then it is fixed. But that doesn't make the prior problematic elements cease to exist.

Finn is a massive design space problem. When Finn got his zeta, it firmly proclaimed Resistance to be an Expose faction. His expose sources in-faction at the time were himself, Poe, Trooper, and Pilot. Five new Resistance units and over a year later, his in-faction expose sources were... himself, Poe, Trooper, and Pilot. (BB-8 doesn't count because 70 turn cooldown.) Because Finn's lead must not be fed. Because it's a broken mechanic. They even found a clever workaround in JTR's lead to keep saying Resistance is the expose faction, but nest it under her lead so that it won't feed Finn. Then, they fed Finn a good expose source and it broke.

hSith was just the impetus to finally fix a standing problem. Because no matter how hard you deny it, going right into an infinite TM loop at tick zero unless your opponent has some sort of out-of-turn counter is a profoundly broken mechanic that creates serious design problems.

5) Changing mechanics the developers don't enjoy is literally part of their job. Where mechanics the developers don't enjoy are defined as mechanics that they deem must change for the long term health of the game. This is not a Galaxy of Heroes thing. This is a thing in most continuously supported games. Sometimes long-established mechanics have to change. Extreme TM leads like Finn and HK-47 are some of those mechanics that have to change.

6) Bringing up Revan is pure whataboutism. And phrasing it as "Revan" is disingenuous since there are two completely different Revans right now.

Jedi Knight Revan is a meta. We've had a lot of metas in the past. People have complained about every single one of them. Yes, Jedi Knight Revan has been an extreme meta. Now, Darth Revan is carving out a spot in the meta, and will continue to do so, whether it's practical or not. There are currently multiple viable meta teams. That you dislike their leads having similar fashion sense does not invalidate that fact.

But regardless, Revan is a meta. Metas come and go. Upcoming releases will shake Revan's hold. It's a temporary problem. Finn is a persistent problem that's been impacting the game and its development for years. Ousting a Revan meta with the Jar Jar meta will not fix the Finn problem. Only fixing the Finn problem will fix the Finn problem, and it's been let set for long enough.

"SmurfLAX28;c-1817177" wrote:
C'mon man, you know anything not named Revan in this game is an overpromise and a massive disappointment.... How many times have people been disappointed by CG trolling us by underdelivering

How many times has the playerbase drummed up unreasonably extreme hype and been disappointed based on things that were never promised?

How many times has Revan been the disappointment when pretty much everything since the release of Nihilus was, "Darth Revan confirmed?"

1. Ok, I'll give you that, you have written like what, 100 gaslighting/mansplaining responses to other people's posts (instead of just writing your own for some reason...?) about why zFinn's nerf is fine and we should all agree it's fine and anyone who doesn't think it's fine is obtuse . I personally have no idea why you feel the uncontrollable need to try and sway people to your way of thinking when you have been doing it for months, and it's not working.

2.If you dont mind me asking, why exactly are you so offended on the behalf of CG? Your literally acting as though your an employee who designed this game. And if your not an employee, your not getting paid to defend CG's honor? They are adults who are able to defend themselves from the enormous amount people who think this nerf is garbage.

3. Once again, you keep trying to act as though I'm entitled because I want to maintain my payout. To do so, I requested reliable counters that I could use in replacement of zFinn. Yet all you do is derail that and act like I'm asking for crystal welfare and refuse to name a single reliable counter to either Revan that is not another Revan.

Fairly disgusted by everything CG has done in the last 6 months. This is just the most recent insult to players in a long line of insults.

So maybe I am wrong about this so forgive me if I am. But I have found that when dealing with clients - even ones that appearred uneducated - its almost always better to be straightforward with them when something bad has happened instead of some mealy-mouthed explanation. They ALWAYS know when you are mush-mounting something and either get mad right there, or dont trust you again ever.

"So Mr. Ugnat, Im making a change to my plan. Yes, it will delay things and make it more expensive, but I have leared the plan was not as good as I thought, so we are going a different direction that will cause Change X" They may not like it, but they always understand and agree to the new plan if its directly explained to them. And if you don't - well most people can smell BS.

So just something as direct as "We are changing Finns zeta because it was too powerful for a B class character and when you can get him in the game. He was too successful in arena for too long against better teams, etc." Whatever.

Now I realize this is the internet and the bile and putrecent posts would still appear, but I would bet in lesser numbers.

All I know the explanation of "We are changing him because he can solo a phase of the raid" is no good when another character can too and it just kinda stinks like BS, which is why people have got a little ornery.

Just my opinion.

"Calbear949;c-1816986" wrote:

"Gama_Fox;c-1816984" wrote:

"Vos_Landeck;c-1816975" wrote:
If you know how to find the forums and create a thread, then you're familiar with the forums....this has been discussed ad nauseam in the forums for months and CG has laid out very clearly the reasons why they need to make the change to Finn.

True.. But they refuse to admit that terrible raid design and lack of internal testing with 3POs release brought us to this point. Finn wasn't able to solo phase 3 before the release of 3PO, all of a sudden once 3PO is introduced Finn can solo phase 3. Almost seems like 3PO is the problem don't you think? Since he was a P2P toon though they cant nerf 3PO so they hide behind the claims that Finn is the only problem.

Raid design is fine...you can't anticipate every interaction. C3p0 is a new toon..makes more sense to nerf the old one that is hardly used anymore.

“Hardly used” LOL. 4.4m gp here and still running zfinn in tw and ga.

But sure, refund for this nerf and it goes to DR’s team instead.