Who benefits most from a DEF boost from a mod?

"NicWester;677248" wrote:
A flat bonus is usually stronger than a percentage because the Armor (and Resistance) stat is a pretty low number to begin with. I don't know exact numbers from before the patch that changed the expression from a flat value to a percentage, but "good" armor back then wasn't that much more than 100. In that case, +10 Defense would be a net increase of 10%, while the 5% bonus from a Def Mod set bonus would translate to only +5, were it expressed as a flat value instead of percentage.

Luckily it doesn't really matter, because you aren't asked to sacrifice one to the expense of another. Having a flat value for a secondary stat bonus doesn't preclude the main stat on the mod from being Defense%.

This is a related topic which im glad you mentioned. It IS easier to find #def boosts which help u more than %def boosts

The average armor is 25.08%
A 5%def boost does as much good as a 10def boost
Good luck finding a 5%def boost secondary

I'd say flat def mods on a low defense toon like Palpatine. QGJ might be the best example because he has decently high HP+Prot pool but naturally low armor. Defense also has diminishing returns iirc so while higher armor% toons might get more EHP out of each percent point, it takes a lot more defense to increase their armor. Would love to know the actual numbers though.

"SmokeyJoe320;677262" wrote:

"J0K3R;677241" wrote:
Do you agree with my statements?

1. when adding #def mods, it doesnt matter how high or low the current defense (armor) is. Their effectiveness is constant

2. %def mods are best used on high defense (armor) characters

3. all mods (%def and #def) work better the higher the health / protection of the character

I crunched some numbers and these are my conclusions

Yes
Yes
No

Why would a flat # mod be better on a high HP toon? It gives the same effect to both. It may be more useful to add a bit more to an already high HP toon because what does adding a tiny defense upgrade to a weak toon do in this mega DPS set up? But why else would it be better for high HP toons?

Regarding high HP toons: the point of ur armor is to essentially make your hitpoints more effective.
Let's say you have 50%armor and 10k hitpoints. That means you halve the damage coming your way, essentially turning your 10k hitpoints into 20k. A person with 20k hitpoints with same armor turns his hitpoints into 40k essentially. The more HP you have, the more u benefit from armor

"Zooey;677271" wrote:
I'd say flat def mods on a low defense toon like Palpatine. QGJ might be the best example because he has decently high HP+Prot pool but naturally low armor. Defense also has diminishing returns iirc so while higher armor% toons might get more EHP out of each percent point, it takes a lot more defense to increase their armor. Would love to know the actual numbers though.

The diminishing returns dont exist at close examination. While it's true that the armor % doesn't go as high the higher it gets, it's effectiveness is constant and doesnt suffer diminishing returns (although i thought differently and about 20min ago i proved myself wrong)

"J0K3R;677276" wrote:

"SmokeyJoe320;677262" wrote:

"J0K3R;677241" wrote:
Do you agree with my statements?

1. when adding #def mods, it doesnt matter how high or low the current defense (armor) is. Their effectiveness is constant

2. %def mods are best used on high defense (armor) characters

3. all mods (%def and #def) work better the higher the health / protection of the character

I crunched some numbers and these are my conclusions

Yes
Yes
No

Why would a flat # mod be better on a high HP toon? It gives the same effect to both. It may be more useful to add a bit more to an already high HP toon because what does adding a tiny defense upgrade to a weak toon do in this mega DPS set up? But why else would it be better for high HP toons?

Regarding high HP toons: the point of ur armor is to essentially make your hitpoints more effective.
Let's say you have 50%armor and 10k hitpoints. That means you halve the damage coming your way, essentially turning your 10k hitpoints into 20k. A person with 20k hitpoints with same armor turns his hitpoints into 40k essentially. The more HP you have, the more u benefit from armor

Aha... that makes sense. More HP to protect so the def mod 'lasts' longer in effect. 4k to 8k vs 10k to 20k... I see what you are saying. Good point. But if you have a toon you like but is just so squishy, the flat # mod is still useful.

"J0K3R;677279" wrote:

"Zooey;677271" wrote:
I'd say flat def mods on a low defense toon like Palpatine. QGJ might be the best example because he has decently high HP+Prot pool but naturally low armor. Defense also has diminishing returns iirc so while higher armor% toons might get more EHP out of each percent point, it takes a lot more defense to increase their armor. Would love to know the actual numbers though.

The diminishing returns dont exist at close examination. While it's true that the armor % doesn't go as high the higher it gets, it's effectiveness is constant and doesnt suffer diminishing returns (as i once thought and about 20min ago i proved myself wrong)

In that case, I guess hp+prot is pretty much the only factor to consider. Can you answer at threshold would a +15 defense secondary be better than a +5% prot secondary stat? Or at least give me the formula for me to work it out :p

"SmokeyJoe320;677288" wrote:

"J0K3R;677276" wrote:

"SmokeyJoe320;677262" wrote:

"J0K3R;677241" wrote:
Do you agree with my statements?

1. when adding #def mods, it doesnt matter how high or low the current defense (armor) is. Their effectiveness is constant

2. %def mods are best used on high defense (armor) characters

3. all mods (%def and #def) work better the higher the health / protection of the character

I crunched some numbers and these are my conclusions

Yes
Yes
No

Why would a flat # mod be better on a high HP toon? It gives the same effect to both. It may be more useful to add a bit more to an already high HP toon because what does adding a tiny defense upgrade to a weak toon do in this mega DPS set up? But why else would it be better for high HP toons?

Regarding high HP toons: the point of ur armor is to essentially make your hitpoints more effective.
Let's say you have 50%armor and 10k hitpoints. That means you halve the damage coming your way, essentially turning your 10k hitpoints into 20k. A person with 20k hitpoints with same armor turns his hitpoints into 40k essentially. The more HP you have, the more u benefit from armor

Aha... that makes sense. More HP to protect so the def mod 'lasts' longer in effect. 4k to 8k vs 10k to 20k... I see what you are saying. Good point. But if you have a toon you like but is just so squishy, the flat # mod is still useful.

The #def boosts are very good because their overall value tends to be higher than the typical value of a %def boost.

While a %def boost is better on high armor characters as opposed to low armor characters, you still might choose to use a #def boost because the percentage on a %def boost is so small it doesnt match the flat value of a #def boost

"Zooey;677296" wrote:

"J0K3R;677279" wrote:

"Zooey;677271" wrote:
I'd say flat def mods on a low defense toon like Palpatine. QGJ might be the best example because he has decently high HP+Prot pool but naturally low armor. Defense also has diminishing returns iirc so while higher armor% toons might get more EHP out of each percent point, it takes a lot more defense to increase their armor. Would love to know the actual numbers though.

The diminishing returns dont exist at close examination. While it's true that the armor % doesn't go as high the higher it gets, it's effectiveness is constant and doesnt suffer diminishing returns (as i once thought and about 20min ago i proved myself wrong)

In that case, I guess hp+prot is pretty much the only factor to consider. Can you answer at threshold would a +15 defense secondary be better than a +5% prot secondary stat? Or at least give me the formula for me to work it out :p

Good question. Give me a few minutes to work it out (putting my little one to sleep). I will also see if i can easily provide the formula...

"Zooey;677296" wrote:

"J0K3R;677279" wrote:

"Zooey;677271" wrote:
I'd say flat def mods on a low defense toon like Palpatine. QGJ might be the best example because he has decently high HP+Prot pool but naturally low armor. Defense also has diminishing returns iirc so while higher armor% toons might get more EHP out of each percent point, it takes a lot more defense to increase their armor. Would love to know the actual numbers though.

The diminishing returns dont exist at close examination. While it's true that the armor % doesn't go as high the higher it gets, it's effectiveness is constant and doesnt suffer diminishing returns (as i once thought and about 20min ago i proved myself wrong)

In that case, I guess hp+prot is pretty much the only factor to consider. Can you answer at threshold would a +15 defense secondary be better than a +5% prot secondary stat? Or at least give me the formula for me to work it out :p

You need to provide me the protection value before mods

"J0K3R;677315" wrote:

"Zooey;677296" wrote:

"J0K3R;677279" wrote:

"Zooey;677271" wrote:
I'd say flat def mods on a low defense toon like Palpatine. QGJ might be the best example because he has decently high HP+Prot pool but naturally low armor. Defense also has diminishing returns iirc so while higher armor% toons might get more EHP out of each percent point, it takes a lot more defense to increase their armor. Would love to know the actual numbers though.

The diminishing returns dont exist at close examination. While it's true that the armor % doesn't go as high the higher it gets, it's effectiveness is constant and doesnt suffer diminishing returns (as i once thought and about 20min ago i proved myself wrong)

In that case, I guess hp+prot is pretty much the only factor to consider. Can you answer at threshold would a +15 defense secondary be better than a +5% prot secondary stat? Or at least give me the formula for me to work it out :p

You need to provide me the protection value before mods

Let's say 20k hp 20k protection.

edit: I found the post with the calculator btw.