Let's talk about the flawed emotion system

"stilljustme2;15207255" wrote:

"Neia;15206245" wrote:

"Hermai;15205623" wrote:
I don't like this gameplay based on emotions. At first I thought it was fun, but later on a felt like I was always manipulating the emotions of my sims so they could do a certain thing. And I don't like that. For me, emotions should be just a consequence of what happens in sim's lives, not a gimmick to manipulate all the time. Maybe when they were more "hidden" they felt more fun.

I like that manipulating the emotions is entirely optional, I never use the emotional auras for example, and I always choose the interactions that give emotional moodlets for the interaction itself. I usually just go with the flow with whatever emotion my Sims are currently in, I think it makes the gameplay extremely fluid, and I think the more content, the better it will be.

I think the emotion system could be even better with a bit more granularity (more steps than Inspired/Very Inspired), and with the more common Happy buffs being less impactful. At the moment, some moodlets (like Well fed for example) have too big an impact on how our Sims feel, though removing the Decoration buffs goes a long way to make the emotion system better already.

I'll use the emotional auras to set up rooms for specific functions. For example, in my art studio I will activate emotional auras so Sims can get in the proper "mood" for creating. In the study with the computer I'll activate either the Focused or Inspired mood auras for the same reason. Most of my houses are aura free except for those few areas.

One thing that would help in the case of the original post is that less weight be given to decor or other buffs when a strong emotion is present, so that the change isn't that drastic. For example, if you're really sad about something you shouldn't immediately be happy as soon as you go into a well-decorated room -- maybe at most you'll go to a neutral state like Fine but the Sad moodlet will still be there in the background to pop up when you least expect it. Even in real life, you're not sad constantly 24/7 after the death of a loved one -- sometimes a friend or family member will share a funny story about the departed, or maybe you see a picture of them or something they cherished and you'll feel a little better. Or someone will ask how you are and you don't want to go into detail so you say, "I'm FINE." That sort of thing. A wider application of the neutral/Fine emotion could help minimize the feeling that Sims are subject to such wild mood swings.

In this particular case, I think a progressive moodlet would work great, like a Sad +3 on the first day, then +2, then +1 for example, so your Sims would be inconsolable on the first day, and would recover from it progressively, with it becoming easier to go into the Happy side.

I wish the Well decorated moodlets were like the auras, and could be disabled.

"HalloMolli;15202364" wrote:
Sims in TS4 do react to major events, if that does not happen in your game chances are high you are experiencing a bug.

But I agree it would be cool if it was possible to connect emotions to particular sims in certain situations. Sometimes it would really make sense.

They really don't though.

I think the emotion system can be tuned, but probably not overhauled, because it already permeates nearly every part of the game. I would say, if you hate the emotion system, you hate Sims 4. In principle, you can ignore the emotion and get things done, but you just see the emotion get in the way everywhere. If you want to play Sims 4, you need to accept the emotion system as it is.

I find some of them very odd as well but I try to think of it this way; even if we as humans are depressed, we have things that can distract us and keep our minds off our sadness. The underlying depression is still there, but there are still things that make us smile and temporarily feel better. I know that I would feel better being in a room with lots of sunlight that is clean and nicely decorated than I would if I were in a dark room that was messy. I instantly feel better when I sit down to drink a nice cup of tea or relax in my hammock with a book. The same things apply to our sims. I don't think it's completely unrealistic, it's just exaggerated. :smile:

Yea I agree with you. The emotions system has a lot of issues. For the most part, they just change too quickly and aren't difficult to solve. I wish it were easier to get to the next stage of emotions. I know that sounds wrong... But I've never actually seen my sim become depressed. They never get deeper into the sadness emotion. I would be interested in playing with a sim who maybe was feeling down for a little while. Most of the emotions are experienced for less than a sim hour, so I totally ignore them. I rarely do an action related to the emotion. I just wish it had been deeper. The moodlets in 3 did a better job of influencing sims' behaviour in some ways, and I don't think that system was perfect either.

I don't usually reply in this way but... I hate the emotion system!
The best "emotion system" was of The Sims 2: Memories, Wants and Fears. At least you can't manipulate the emotion of a Sim by a decoration.

I completely agree. The emotion system is terrible in sims 4. They advertised it as if it was amazing and improved. The algorithms managing it are wack. My sims 3 were more diverse and interesting. Traits have nearly zero influence on emotional responses and neither do character values. If I have an evil or mean Sim why are they angry when they make an enemy or when someone is mean or mischievous? Shouldn’t they be happy? Or at least feel confident(since we are literally working with like 8 emotions. I don’t consider very a very different emotion. If you are embarrassed then mortified is just embarrassed. If you need levels let’s stick to two. I don’t need flirty or very flirty. It’s just flirty) I see no difference. All the sims have the same responses to every event no matter the traits or situation. And when they don’t it’s not because of the trait or situation. It’s random and senseless. When a sim gets sad at a wedding it’s not because they are evil or any other trait, it’s not because weddings make them sad (that would make sense). It’s something stupid, not related nonsense. One of my sim killed 6 spouses. I won the black widow achievement, which does nothing, and this murderous, uncommitted sim had the same response as my evil sim to losing a spouse (or 6) or my romantic or one with soulmate aspiration. I see no difference. She was sad for 2 days if she liked her spouse or hated them. After 2 days she forgot she was even married (that is another pet peeve I have). They jump from emotion to emotion with boiler plate happenings without any distinction or with little sense. Or you get an occasional random emotion from the traits that comes and goes. I guess the creators thought that was the big breakthrough. Sorry HalloMolli but if you are scared the emotion is scared not uncomfortable. Sims3 seams to have understood that. Since my sims would actually get moodlets appropriate to the situation based on their character traits. Like a brave sim exploring a tomb would not get phased by scary things or even would get a thrilled moodlet. My sim shouldn’t feel embarrassed when scared. They should feel scared. They shouldn’t feel only happy, confident or flirty. Why talk about vampires if it produces no emotional response. She should feel content, calm, scared, they should feel different around their spouse of many years and different around a new flirt. In sims 4 my bookworm sim puts any book away after 5 minutes of reading just like all my other sims. None of them seam to like reading even the bookworm ones. My mean sim gets upset when someone is mean to them, just like the good sim. Why? Shouldn’t they be happy with mischievous interactions. Then my sim with an awful reputation gets a call to meet someone who is also awful, but when they meet they have nothing in common. If my sims is awful, mean and evil shouldn’t others feel scared of them (at least some). In sims 3 at least they can talk about shared traits. Even that is unavailable. They get the same interaction and they reacted to them the same way. Not to mention if you pick any friendly interaction no matter how stupid it’s just counted as friendly. Like I don’t even care what they talk about: vampires, deep conversation, baking, reading, pigeons. They are viewed as one pot. You can literally pick the same friendly interaction over and over and over again. It would just count as friendly. You can gush about your partner to an uncommitted sim and they will react just like a hopeless romantic. How is that realistic? I had one sims with all positive character traits gained from childhood and and A in high school and one with all negative and a F in high school. They interact the same. My overachiever couldn’t graduate (top notch toddler, super scout) and was put on probation. My flunky (Irresponsible, argumentative etc) was nailing all his courses, doing homework without being told and just graduated swimmingly. Both jump from embarrassment to angry to 90% happy in the same scenarios. Same things make them happy, embarrassed, sad. I rather have the moodlet system back then this inconsistent, frazzled emotional system with narrow possibilities of emotional diversity. In sims 3 sims would actually get annoyed or bored when you chose the subject of conversation which they did not a care about. How do you tell stories when nothing is lasting? Another issue I have is no long term consequences. A death of a loved one, which was loved (As in the actual relationship should matter) should have an impact on sims life. There are no memories so if a sim’s loved one dies you get 2 sad days and then they forget all about it. At least previous sims games had memories. My sim cries the same at an urn of a loved one or a stranger. No difference. Then takes a shower and is happy again baking a stupid cake or some inconsequential drivel. The point system is terrible and doesn’t reflect importance, character values and traits (The few we got) have almost no impact on gameplay, there are no memories so nothing matters in the long run. They are literally emotional clones that jump through feelings like a roller coaster on Ritalin. I would like some of the achievements to be turned into traits or long impact. If my sim has 6 spouses die on them maybe at least they should be a subject of gossip or suspicion (we don’t have that emotion). Like I said I rather the moodlets from sims 3. At least they reflected level of importance, traits and situation. This system is just making sims look Like emotional crazy clones. I miss the lady that would wack sim with a cane. I think she was introduced in sims 2. One of a kind

Ps: my vampires are angry when you call them at night. Isn’t that a time they should be awake? Sims logic for you. They didn’t even get that right

"arleta;c-17605146" wrote:

Ps: my vampires are angry when you call them at night. Isn’t that a time they should be awake? Sims logic for you. They didn’t even get that right

and you can only call them at 7pm to 10pm, otherwise they arent available all the time

The significance and depth of emotions and multitasking were incredibly over-sold to players and turned out to be some of the least enjoyable gimmicks this game has. What’s worse is these two things were the backbone for Sims 4 in 2014, as of 2020 how have they been improved? They haven’t because even the studio sees them as useless, poorly implemented gimmicks that aren’t worth improving. The best example would be loungers, which aren’t compatible with MT after the gurus explicitly told players it would be unacceptable for them not to. It’s all a charade.

All I said was: Emotions are a tool to manipulate/control your context/environment. We have full control over the actions of played and unplayed sims due to the power of emotions. Do you want to have a woohoo-party? Easy: just make them very flirty. etc.

You have so many ways to achieve a certain emotional state. If you want to do it through conversations, go for it.