Non binary pronouns and language... and how will be launched at non english

"leo3487;d-996878" wrote:
reading the interview here
https://simscommunity.info/2022/01/19/customizable-pronouns-importance-in-the-sims-4/

and going to the intervention of Verónica Morales, there is a thing I cant understand well, as at Inside Maxis was said at non english will be ready later, and now this:

It has to be treated and broken down to the specifics of the language because culture regulations and the language itself have a great impact on how this topic is handled in the different regions. Linguistically speaking all different sides of the spectrum are represented in the languages The Sims are localized into. Some languages have an officially accepted and ready to use non-binary pronouns. For instance Swedish – they have “hen” which would work. For other terittories however the problems are not being included in the dictionaries which proves that languages are evolving and accepting of this new language which is changing over time. In case for French with the pronoun “yel” which was recently accepted in their dictionary.
Some countries such as Germany, Spain and Brazil – communities have started using non-binary grammar in the syntax systems. These are not officially accepted but they are being used by a part of the society and they feel comfortable with this grammar and system and syntax systems.
On other side of the spectrum we have terittories with strict regulations and laws which the use of non binary pronouns can be quite challenging. It’s important to point out the reachness of the languages and for those teritorries which face some challenges there are some ways to resolve these. For instance we can use the passive voice in order to avoid referrencing the subject. Instead of saying “they sent me a letter yesterday” you can say “the letter was sent yesterday”.

Then something I no understand well:
Non binary pronouns will be deployed at certain language only when be officially accepted by language regulators?

The team said that they will start the process of implementation (when its ready) in English. Other languages may present more challenges, because sometimes there are no gender neutral options, like in Spanish and some languages are protected by native laws. The team did not say specifically what they intend to do, just that they are looking into it.

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"lunaoddity;c-18040853" wrote:
I looked for recaps on youtube looking for insight whether this would be mandatory. In the livestream, she said they would use workarounds for those languages. For Spanish they would use passive voice for in-game messages. You can always use custom pronouns.

if well at Spain officially no recognize non binary language, at Argentina we recognize it, even allow at official documents

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"lunaoddity;c-18040960" wrote:

"leo3487;c-18040855" wrote:

"lunaoddity;c-18040853" wrote:
I looked for recaps on youtube looking for insight whether this would be mandatory. In the livestream, she said they would use workarounds for those languages. For Spanish they would use passive voice for in-game messages. You can always use custom pronouns.

if well at Spain officially no recognize non binary language, at Argentina we recognize it, even allow at official documents

"Nushka;c-18040888" wrote:

"lunaoddity;c-18040853" wrote:
I looked for recaps on youtube looking for insight whether this would be mandatory. In the livestream, she said they would use workarounds for those languages. For Spanish they would use passive voice for in-game messages. You can always use custom pronouns.

Passive voice wouldn't always work in Spanish but there are other workarounds like verbal phrases. Also, we don't use personal pronouns unless we really want to stress something and possessive pronouns are genderless.

The main difficulty would be gender declination of adjectives but Maxis could use the ending "e" for gender neutral. The biggest problem I see is with using indirect object pronouns "la" and "lo" because "le" is the pronoun for direct object.

Yes, it was one of many examples. At the end of the day I'm sure they will consult with activist groups to incorporate this.

I hope you have reason than will consult activist and LGBTQ+ groups, instead consult with organism like RAE

Also as I said (here or other thread?) as start with english version and then translate to other languages, my fear was than to do that translation or port, wait until dictionary reconnize it officially

I guess I'm old....I don't even know what binary means

"Nate_Whiplash1;c-18041267" wrote:
I guess I'm old....I don't even know what binary means

I'm old too. I learned that non-binary language exits only one year ago.
Binary is everthing with only two sides like 0 and 1 in programming or male and female.

I don't see a way to add inclusive pronouns to German without inventing new words - which players could do of course.

But there are many accepted ways in German to combine male and female forms of nouns. The biggest gender challenge in our language is that there are obligatory male and female forms of all descriptions for human beings. While English speakers have an actor and an actress, we also have a teacher and a teacheress (Lehrer/Lehrerin) and so on.

The problem is that in everyday language the longer female form is often left out thus making non-male persons invisible. If you see a mixed group of teachers, you often simply say

die Lehrer (the male teachers)
instead of
die Lehrerinnen und Lehrer (the female and male teachers)

Luckily in written language there are multiple accepted combined forms that all people can identify with like

Lehrer*innen
LehrerInnen
Lehrer_innen

I'm pretty sure that this will be the German equivalent to the pronouns project.

This reminds me of the difference between mermaid, merman, and merperson. The game uses the term mermaid for the occult, but that is 100% female and doesn't represent the opposite gender. The term mermaid literally means "Maiden of the Sea" because "Mer" is a prefix that modifies the root "Maiden."

I know that my non-trans and binary sims do not identify as women or maidens. I'm 100% for non-binary representation, but if they choose to use non-binary language, they should actually use non-binary/ gender neutral terms. In this case, "Mermaid" is not an accurate representation of "Merfolk", "Merpeople", or "Merperson".

My point is that, if you choose to represent a group, you should use more accurate language if you care about achieving equal representation for that group.

Right now, they call the "Mermadic" or "Mer" occult "Mermaid" in CAS, but not every Mer is a mermaid.

"Metior_Ice;c-18041622" wrote:
This reminds me of the difference between mermaid, merman, and merperson. The game uses the term mermaid for the occult, but that is 100% female and doesn't represent the opposite gender. The term mermaid literally means "Maiden of the Sea" because "Mer" is a prefix that modifies the root "Maiden."

I know that my non-trans and binary sims do not identify as women or maidens. I'm 100% for non-binary representation, but if they choose to use non-binary language, they should actually use non-binary/ gender neutral terms. In this case, "Mermaid" is not an accurate representation of "Merfolk", "Merpeople", or "Merperson".

My point is that, if you choose to represent a group, you should use more accurate language if you care about achieving equal representation for that group.

Right now, they call the "Mermadic" or "Mer" occult "Mermaid" in CAS, but not every Mer is a mermaid.

For my game, I see them as a matriarchal society where the umbrella term for the species is "Mermaids" though in my head there are also "Mermen" when referring to males specifically. Kind of the way "man" and "mankind" has been used as an umbrella term for bipedal humanoids but "women" exist among us. I personally tend to refer to them as "Merfolk" in general, but I've also accepted "Mermaid" as the default term.