Re: My thought on the Goth refresh.

@PugLove888 I figured there would be others on there as well, but a lot of times it seems there's no way of knowing what has been done to things on the Gallery (unless the uploader specifically says) so I didn't want to spend a lot of time browsing for one that was actually vanilla originals. I probably should edit my upload somewhere to say that it is indeed an untouched version, because I'm sure some people that will be looking will want a version that hasn't been edited.

I'm just glad that I'm the type of person that disables auto updates whenever I can, because if I didn't I wouldn't have had the backup of the original version. I had actually started a new game just to see the new version, only to find that because I hadn't done the Sims Delivery update I still had the old version lol. So I took full advantage of that and made a copy of the older version, especially since it was on a brand new save since it meant no aging or anything had been done to them yet. I definitely wasn't going to backup the version in my current save since not only has Mortimer died of old age, but the neighborhood stories also decided really early into the save that the Goths needed a bunch of kids so they had three more and adopted one as well.

@valohim666 , yes you might want to put that info in that this is an untouched old Goth family! I'm just glad you saved it so you (and I) didn't have to go searching! 

I'm cracking up that you meant to try out the new versions but hadn't enabled the Delivery yet! Sounds like something I would do! 😂🤪🥰

@PugLove888 Not sure if it will stay at the top or not, though I guess it will as long as no one leaves comments lol, but I did add a comment saying that it's an unedited base game version straight out of a new save.

It was hilarious when it happened. As soon as I went to look at the Goths and I saw the old version, it was just one of those facepalm type of moments and I quickly realized I needed to update. 

Oh and by the way I just had the new version of Mortimer walk past my sims' house, and while I didn't see it before the first thing that came to mind was the resemblance to Vincent Price. Makes me wish I renamed the family to Price, with Mortimer being renamed Vincent.

@valohim666 , Now I can't wait to see the new Mortimer "in the wild"! 🤣  My parents used to watch the show "Mystery" and he was a host of it for some time!  Love him! 😀

I have to say, I do love Mortimer's new outfit! 😍 But the old one was so recognizable! 😄

@PugLove888 Mortimer is the one new Goth I like the most, admittedly it's mostly because he reminds me so much of Vincent Price lol. My dad used to show me a lot of old movies and TV shows, so I've seen him in quite a few things. Plus I'll always remember him for his part in Michael Jackson's song Thriller, and as Egghead in the old 60's Batman show.

Yeah completely agree with you. I think the new Mortimer is the one that I almost want to like more than the original, but yeah like you said the old is so recognizable though I think for me having played since 2016 I think it's only natural that the originals are going to stand out more.

@valohim666 Yes, I've seen some very old movies of Vincent (back when he had dark hair and looked even more like Mortimer) and I didn't recognize him at first until he spoke, and then it was unmistakable that it was him!  That movie was Song of Bernadette. 😇
I had the Thriller album when I was young and was so excited, he had a spoken part on the title song!  It's been about 40 years but I still can recite all of Vincent's lines, copying his rhythm and intonation! 😂
I had forgotten that he was in the Batman TV series!  But that is probably where I first was introduced to him because my older brothers always watched that show! 
He also had a part in The Brady Bunch as Professor Whitehead who wanted the tiki they found! 🤣
And then he was briefly in one of my favorite movies, Edward Scissorhands! 🥰

I understand!  I started TS4 when it came out, which isn't that much longer than when you started, so I have grown accustomed to original Goths as well.  Even though I like a lot of what they did with the new version, it is very hard for me to see these "interlopers" as the TS4 Goths 😉😂  I do appreciate that their skin tone looks more like TS1 and TS2 Goths.  It is just odd to have such a revamp of actual facial features in the same game! I would much rather they fix the skin tones, give them Hot and Cold outfits, and give them some likes/dislikes. I mean, they all seem to love black, red, white, and gray! 🤣

@PugLove888 I ended up listening to Thriller (the song, not the album) right after my initial post mentioning Vincent because that was one of the first things that came to mind. It was quite depressing on so many levels, though luckily just the awesomeness of the song helped counteract some of the bad feelings.

I had forgotten about him being in the Batman series too until I went back to look up things I was familiar with that he was in. Never knew he was in The Brady Bunch, though to be fair that's not something I ever watched.

I can appreciate the attempt to try and update the Goths, but yeah to go so long with the same looks and then suddenly change them seems odd to me especially since the looks are about all that they changed. I'm sure there are some out there that maybe didn't like the older look and will see the new versions as the Goths, but I'm sure there are even more people that are just so used to them looking a certain way that there's no way they can see that as the Goths. I too like some of what they changed, which is why I renamed them and put them in as an entirely new family, but to replace the originals seems wrong and they really need to give an option for which version people want to use when starting a new game.

By the way, is it just me or is there some resemblance to the Sims 3 version of Bella in the updated version? I feel like around the eyes it looks a little like Sims 3 Bella, then again it could just be me lol.

@valohim666 , some are going to prefer Goths 2.0 and others are going to prefer Goths 1.0. 😉 To me, I always think of the Sims 1 Goths with Sims 2 Alexander, since he hadn't been born yet in TS1!  Even if Ilike other versions of the Goths, the first iteration will always be cannon to me !   However, it is much easier to accept a new version of the Goths in a new version of the game.  Since we are still playing TS4, the newer Goths will be harder to get used to! 

I'm sorry the song touched on depression for you! 😭 It is an excellent song, and was quite the big deal when it was made. (It erroneously has been called the first horror video -- I don't know which one was actually the first, but I know of one that was made earlier!) 

The Brady Bunch storyline that Vincent was in was only a 3 parter (and I can't remember if he was in the first part or not).  

I'm not sure about TS3 Bella.  I'm not a fan of TS3 (though I loved the CASt color and pattern tool and a few other things). Even when I took my CC/mods out it was still so laggy and often crashed.  Didn't like the open world because there was never anyone in it by the time my Sim traveled to that location. Anyway, every time I think of TS3 Bella and Mortimer, I just think of them as kids. i know I aged them up at some point, but they never seemed like the real Bella and Mortimer to me once I did that. 😥 So you very well might be right on the eyes, but I can't remember other that her eyes as a little girl. 🤷‍♀️

@PugLove888 I mostly meant specifically the Sims 4 versions of the Goths, though yeah I do agree that when it comes to The Sims as a franchise people will have their preferences. Like for me personally I actually prefer the original Sims 4 version because it's become what I'm used to, especially since I haven't played any of the other Sims games in a long time.

It just hit a lot of marks that really bother me. For example just knowing that both MJ and Vincent Price are dead hit me the wrong way, then the fact that my dad had introduced me to both and he died of cancer last year really hit hard. Factor in that I've struggled with depression for most of my life and that certainly didn't help. For the video of the song, I almost don't even want to call it a music video since it's almost like a mini movie. While so many music videos are just a bunch of random nonsense, that one really told a story and was just awesome. I haven't seen the video in ages, yet to this day I can easily picture Michael turning to the camera with those weird beast like eyes at the end.

Maybe I'll have to track down any episodes of that he was in, just to see him of course lol.

I actually liked the concept of Sims 3, I liked the idea of the open world, but I thought the execution was really poor. I found that it needed mods just to run well enough, and even with certain mods it still had issues. The game was meant to have story progression, but the vanilla version didn't even seem to work so you needed mods to make it actually feel alive. The Create A Style is one thing I really wish made a return to Sims 4, because with that you could match almost anything. To be fair I'm probably not remembering Bella properly anyway, I mean as I said it's been a while since I played.

I still stand by this redesign being a big W, at least for Bella Goth. However, looking at her in CAS instantly made me think of a few slight tweaks that would make more sense and be more faithful to her original looks.

All I did here was change her face with minor tweaks so she could look more like her SIms 2 design. I also gave her a green necklace instead and made it a diamond shape since she's the face of the series to many.

While the skin tone she has now is pretty good. It didn't seem warm enough compared to the original Bella Goths so I picked a slightly more accurate tone. You could go even further than the one I chose but this felt like the most natural and fitting one with the makeup she had on. It also feels like a nicer compromise between all the variations her tone has had.

I removed her mouth lines from this Young Adult version since it didn't really fit the age she had listed. Speaking of which, something you will notice that the redesign failed to do is make her age the same as Mortimer. They were both the same age in Sims 3, yet she's now a young adult like any other Sim just starting out. So For the final change, I wanted to actually age her up.

While I think the redesign we saw for Bella is good, if they ever go back and update things to touch up the odder-looking rest of the Goth family, I'd really like the small tweaks I did or similar ones to actually be done to Bella. I believe it captures all of the best of all versions while being pretty accurate to the original designs. Also, that green diamond necklace solidifies her place as the main face of the series so I'd love that above all else, lol.

@valohim666 , sorry, I didn't state that as clearly as I could have!🤦‍♀️ I understood you were talking about the first version of the TS4 Goths verses the 2nd  version of the TS4 Goths,  and I should have said "some are going to prefer TS4 Goths 2.0 and others are going to prefer TS4 Goths 1.0. "  And then I confused the matter by talking about TS1 and TS2 Goths, which I only did because the TS4 Goths 2.0 version was to try to fix their skin coloring to look more like the Goths in the previous games. 😅

I'm very sorry for the loss of your father! 😭 I can see how both MJ and Vincent would make you feel sad, even if you still enjoy their work.  My husband lost his mom last year and it has been hard for us. Similar things like songs and food that she liked will make us bittersweet. 
You are right in that Thriller is a mini-movie! It isn't a regular video! (I'm sure Bella and Mortimer would have loved it!). I remembered when it premiered. Yes, those eyes were freaky! 😱  If you have ever seen the movie "13 Going on 30" there is a whole little tribute to Thriller in that movie! 😄
The Brady Bunch episodes that Vincent was in were the ones where they went to Hawaii!  You could recreate it in your game by taking Mortimer in CAS, changing his name to Professor Whitehead (don't remember his first name), ageing him to elder, and then put him in Sulani! 🥳🤣

The concept of TS3 was amazing.😮  Definitely ahead of its time!  But the execution was not so good, as you said. By the time that I needed Mods to make the game run better, I was getting rid of all my Mods (but they were ones that slowed my game down, so I should have just traded which Mods I used.  But I didn't know that certain Mods would make my game run that much better.  I was thinking that more Mods would make it even worse!  I know that is not the case now, but I had such a bad time of it that I don't want to play TS3 now. ). And yes CASt was the best thing about TS3!🥰 I was so disappointed in the open world that was empty of Sims when I got to a destination, that I spent most of my time in CAS and B&B Modes messing with the CASt tool! 🥳 But I didn't do myself any favors since I collected soooo many swatches of patterns in multiple color combos for each that it took forever to open CAS or B&B! 😓 Had I known that would happen, I would have been more discriminating with the swatches I saved! So I understand why it wasn't included in TS4.  Part of me was very disappointed, but part of me was very relieved! 😅  As for Story Progression, I love the idea, but I'm too much of a control freak with my Sims! 😂

@TeoTeoTe0 , Yes, I do feel that Bella in other versions of the game had a warmer skin tone than the new Bella, so I liked that you tweaked it! 😃 And I liked that they gave her a darker tone with the new Bella, even if it wasn't as warm as we thought it should be! 

I like the Plumbob necklace! Makes sense.😀  Doesn't really go as well with her new dress, but then again, they should have not changed her Everyday dress to being with!  😥

Technically, the Sims 1 Bella is the original!  I do think this updated one they did matches the TS1 Bella in the eyes and more serious demeanor. 👍 (I've always thought TS2 Bella's eyes were too happy and innocent looking! Then again, they might have done that to fit with the lore that she was abducted by Aliens from Pleasantview and put into Strangetown with no real memory of her former life. ) 

In TS3 Mortimer and Bella might have been the same age, but in TS2 they were not! Bella was an Adult and Mortimer was an Elder.  In TS1 they were essentially the same age, since there were only babies, children and Adults, with Elders being denoted with gray hair.  It didn't really matter since nobody aged or died of old age in that game! 😂
However, since Cassandra is a teen and Bella is at the beginning of being a Young Adult, it makes no sense for her to be a YA unless she uses an elixir to keep young!  So I like that you aged her into a regular Adult! 🥰

Cass and Liberty Lee....  one is a teen the other is a young adult.

The second picture is mine that I  have down loaded to the gallery.. 

Mortie is less wrinklie. does not wear the same outfit over and over

Bella got a slight hair change but got her red dress back

Cass looks like a teen, kind of as much of one can do in the sims 4

And Alexander got his vest back and looks better when aged up.. 

My gallery is the same as my name here Ravenlure  . I have a CC version but would like to redo that one.

Sorry the first pic is my version of the Goths second pic is of cass and liberty lee

@RavenLure , I really like your version of the Goths! 🥰 So glad you gave Bella her dress back and Alexander his sweater vest back! 🥳 I will have to look for them in the Galellery and download them.

I'm going to have to make a town and just have them with various versions of the Goth family! 😏😜🥰 I will just have to name them all Goth1, Goth2, Goth3, etc. for the game! 

Anyone else seeing old Goths when starting new game? What happened?

@PugLove888 Losing anyone sucks, but yeah when it's a parent it just seems to hit differently which unfortunately your husband and your family had to deal with. I don't know if it's been the same for you, but with me it's not necessarily things they liked that can be bittersweet. For me it can be pretty much anything I can associate with those that are gone, even if something simple. Like sometimes when I play video games I think of one of my grandmothers because even though she couldn't have cared less about games, when I was a kid she was the one that bought so many of my games and consoles. Just as another example... and this one really sucks... my birthday was 2 days ago and my uncle died of cancer that day so now for the rest of my life I'll probably associate that day with that. It's hard enough that birthdays have been horribly depressing for lord knows how long now, but now on top of that I'll always have that lingering thought of losing my uncle.

I've never seen that movie you mentioned, though that sounds pretty cool for having a Thriller tribute. It makes me think of the end of the Weird Al video for Eat It, which is a Beat It parody, because at the end of that Al turns to the camera and has a similar thing going on with his eyes. I'm sure it might only really apply to those that grew up around that time, but that song and the video are just iconic. That and the video for the Guns N Roses song November Rain are some I will never forget because I loved the songs and saw the videos constantly.

I could recreate that in my game, but I only have the base game and I promised myself years ago that I was no longer going to spend additional money on a game I already spent money on to buy. In fact the last time I ever bought DLC separately was for Breath of the Wild, and the only way I'll buy DLC now is if it's included in some sort of complete edition of a game.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention them here, I mean EA seems pretty weird about some of their policies, but did you ever try any of the NRaas mods for Sims 3? I never used a lot of mods for that game, but some of those I feel are mandatory. DebugEnabler, ErrorTrap, and Overwatch (and no not the Blizzard game lol) are some I feel are an absolute must for Sims 3. Overwatch is especially a must because it has a lot of options to perform cleanups on things that the game just doesn't do, things that can cause problems like stuck sims and objects for example. Honestly I don't think even those mods make it worth the trouble though, because no matter what you try it's just a poorly optimized game. When it comes to the CASt, if I remember right using that too much in your game could also cause performance issues since it was giving the game even more it had to load. I mean it was bad enough that the game could struggle loading the default stuff, but then give it something different to load... geez.

@TeoTeoTe0 Not sure if you will see this or not, but is there any chance you can share that Bella edit you showed to the Gallery? To me it looks a lot better than what EA did, and it would be nice to add to my game.

@valohim666 , 

I'm sorry I didn't realize you only have the base game!  I'm sure you appreciate all the free DLC  then!!! 🥳  I got a lot of my packs on sale, but if you have a rule, then I understand! 

I have heard of those Mods for The Sims 3.   But i only heard about them after TS4 came out! 🤦‍♀️😓 I have a bad reaction to the musical cues and other parts of TS3 due to the amount of stress and anger I experienced trying to play that game. So I lost my desire to play TS3.  Maybe one day, but I doubt it. But your explanation of how CASt could effect Gameplay in TS3 might be part of not only my problem, but I would guess a lot of other people's problems with the game as well!  A shame since it was the only thing I really liked about it when it first launched.  And by the time other things I liked made it to the game, my game was having a lot of lag !  I do have TS2, but am afraid to play it because I know it will take hold of me! 😅 

Speaking of rules (since you weren't sure you could mention the Mods you mentioned) we are quite off topic, which we aren't supposed to do. 🤦‍♀️😬 So in order to follow the rules but also not be rude , I can PM you with the off topic parts that I would have answered to your last post, if you wish.  If not, I understand! Just tell me either way.  🙂
It is so easy for a conversation to morph into another topic!  Especially with a game like the Sims that can mimic real life! 😅

@PugLove888 Yeah I do appreciate it. For example while playing today I noticed several items that I know weren't there before, or at least I thought they weren't and wasn't sure though I'm pretty sure they weren't there lol. Admittedly there are packs I'd like to have, for example the supernatural stuff because I've always been into that sort of thing (which is one reason I love Thriller so much as well), but yeah unless EA somehow releases a complete edition of the game I just won't buy individual content and will stick to the base game. I do have the Kids Room pack on Xbox, though only because it was free with Game Pass not too long ago.

Yeah unfortunately CASt was more problematic than it was worth. I mean at some point in the game, probably pretty frequently actually, you're going to move far enough from your house or any other places where you may have used CASt that it will unload all the textures. That means that whenever you get close enough for it to load them again it's loading more than just the defaults, which in my experience anything other than the defaults took longer to load. So factor in all of the other stuff that the game has to deal with, especially with the open world environment and everything happening in it, then adding even more on top of that will just cause performance issues. I know I personally would be playing Sims 2 if it would run well enough for me, but no matter what I've tried it just doesn't like my computer. If it did run smoothly enough then Sims 4 wouldn't be touched at all, because yeah I'd probably get really obsessed with TS2 again. Plus I got really lucky and was able to claim that Ultimate Collection on Origin, even though when I went to contact someone from EA they were technically supposed to be done giving it out, so I'd have all content for it unlike TS4.

I've certainly seen my share of Sims conversations that went completely off the rails, especially since I used to visit a modding site pretty regularly. There's just so much going on in those games that sometimes all it takes is one little sentence that's unrelated to the primary topic, and things just completely swing in that direction instead. If you'd like to PM me with the off topic parts then feel free, I'm certainly not against it. I do want to warn you that I struggle horribly with social anxiety, which is so bad that it has a tendency to cause me to shy away from checking messages of any kind so if it takes me a while to respond you'll know why.

@PugLove888 Thanks! On the subject of the necklace, I'd love it if it was just the classic necklace design but with the plumbob symbol instead of the tear drop-looking gem but I guess that would require making a new asset. I'm okay with the new dress. Looks a bit more elegant to me which fits her given personality more imo. Especially with her character at an older age.

Sims 1 and 2 Bellas look strikingly similar already even with the different hairstyles. Facial feature-wise they share a lot of similarities. Very similar nose, mouth, eyes, and eyebrows. The only big differences can be chalked up to artstyle since The Sims 2 is a bit more stylized like with the slightly bigger eyes and expressive models. When making my slight tweaks to the new version, I just wanted to make it look more like the original designs while also trying to incorporate her other versions. Essentially trying to go for the Bella Goth that appears in someone's mind when they think of that Sim. An ultimate amalgamation of every version essentially.

On the subject of TS1 Bella in terms of eyes and demeanor, I think that interpretation is more related to how Sims in the first game didn't have facial expressions. Personality-wise, TS1 Bella seems to land more on the friendly and elegant side similar to someone like Princess Peach except she takes a liking to the gothic aesthetic. Her bio in Sims 1 is, "Elegant and athletic are two qualities that describe Bella. She enjoys a variety of activities from golf to miniature golf." She's listed as having a playful level of 4 and a nice level of 6. By TS4 she's given the traits of good and gregarious so I don't see it as a contradiction design-wise since her character feels like it never was trying to be too serious. More so a balance between things that works well for her as the face of the series. Please put her on the cover again Sims team! She's the face of Sims in the same way Steve and Alex are the face of Minecraft.

What's odd about the ages/life states of Bella and Mortimer is that Mortimer becomes older after Bella disappears. So they seemingly were the exact same age in TS1-3. (I may be wrong here since it has been forever since I played TS2 but I remember him aging up to an elder after Bella was gone in the memory section.) Bella just didn't age anymore as she was removed from the world. The Strangetown version which is where she ended up is odd since she's still young but if it works like TS3, separate worlds don't really age at the same time. That or she was kept in suspended animation for the amount of time she was kidnaped by aliens so she didn't age. I guess that could be the excuse for why she's also young in TS4? That game also mentioned she's disappeared before but aliens don't seem to be the reason in this new timeline and her older face in the latest re-design just makes it look like a mistake on the designers' part now to keep her as a young adult.

The age stuff is kinda odd. Feels like they wanted to keep the Goths youthful for Sims 4 and then the redesign corrected that a bit but made it more confusing by not correcting the ages fully. This might just be me, but instead of retconning the ages, I would've preferred Bella looked young for her age as an adult (think J-Lo or Shakira) while still making her an actual adult who would be the same age as Mortimer. However, the Adult state in Sims 4 makes everyone look older no matter what so I understand why that can't be done. The more I think about it, a refresh would've been more interesting if they changed the timeframe for those characters a bit. If they want the most iconic Sims to still feel youthful like other characters on the game cover, they could do one change to make that work. Considering the timeline placement of the game, it could work to make both Bella and Mortimer halfway through young adulthood with a toddler Alexander and child Cassandra. It is definitely a bigger change compared to what we have had for the past few years but it would've worked better as an in-between of the timeframe seen Sims 1 and 2. (Even if those games got retconned). I know that's unlikely but that change does have a lot of potential for the Goth household to truly feel fresh.

@valohim666 Thanks! No problem. I just posted it to the gallery. Here's the link: https://www.ea.com/games/the-sims/the-sims-4/pc/gallery/EB9F5112EDCF11EC8123DCB82ACC7C81?category=all&searchtype=item_name&sortby=newest&time=all&searchquery=goth&max=50&maxis=false 

If that doesn't work, you can also look up my name in-game to find it too. I didn't make redesign the kids so it's just Bella and a small Mortimer redesign I also ended up making. Enjoy!

@TeoTeoTe0 , Yes, while that plumbob necklace has a strap that is a bit casual for Bella's style, you really can't change that, and the shape of the plumbob, as well as the color really does capture TS2 Bella's necklace! 🥳 
I do mind the dress they choose since (not counting TS3's child Bella) all of the other Bella's have a strapless dress with a sweetheart neckline, that is fitted with a strait skirt.  This new one they picked, while very pretty (and something I would prefer to wear) is not at all the iconic Bella dress. 😓

See, I never thought that the TS1 and TS2 Bella's looked that much alike.  Mostly it was the eyes.  i get that TS1 Sims didn't really show emotion, and TS2 Sims are more stylized, but I find TS2 Bella with a more wistful, innocent expression.  I have to tell myself that it is because she is more of a blank slate with no memories of her life before, and then her expression works, but unless I do that, it doesn't match for me. Also I find the shapes of there faces to be very different.  TS1 Bella has more of a pronounced jaw, giving her a square face shape, while TS2 Bella has a tapered face with not much of a jaw.  Other than that, their eyes are the most different.  I actually think the eyebrows are completely different, but I think that is due to the lack of expression in TS1 eyebrows. The mouths are not quite the same, but passable, and the nose is spot on! 🥳 But I do tend to over-analyse things a lot! 😅 I do tend to be detail-oriented, as well as visually oriented, so maybe these things don't matter to a lot of people.   I understand that Bella was always more friendlier than she looked in TS1, not to mention TS4, as I thought she always looked more mysterious and stand-offish, even though her personality says otherwise.  I think that was what a lot of people liked about her... she looked serious, mysterious, stand-offish, and maybe even snobbish, but when you got to know her she wasn't any of those things!  It was like a nice surprise.  😎

I see what you are saying about how they could have retconned the Goths so that Bella is a Young Adult and then moving Cassandra down to a child and Alex to a toddler or baby, but I really like Cassandra as a teen.  I also like that there is not such a big jump in her and Alexander's ages.  I would rather them just make Bella and Mortimer Adults instead of Young Adults!  

And I totally agree that Bella is the face of The Sims!!! She really should be on the cover for the game!  But they now only put young Sims on the cover, not mom's with a teenage child! 😒😓

Yes, I had forgotten about TS2 Mortimer having memories of ageing up after Bella gets abducted.  Perhaps this was to give the impression that her disappearance was very stressful to him.🤷‍♀️  

It was hinted at that the Caliente sisters might have had something to do with Bella's abduction.  There is a theory that since the Calientes have some Alien ancestry, that they got their Alien relatives to come to Earth to abduct her (and that Don Lothario might have been in on it!) 😮👽

@valohim666 , Yes, since you had stated elsewhere that you only have the Legacy Edition on PC, which doesn't get new updates, I can see why if you already had an Xbox or PS4 that it would just be easier to play the game on console.  At least you have the Kids Room Stuff Pack because I found that helpful so as not to get bored with all the kids rooms looking the same , especially with the base game stuff! 

You have helped explain why I had so much lag, and also why some people didn't.  That CASt should really have come with a warning! Well, if they ever do it again, I will be fairly warned!  The problem was that I really didn't like the open world (except to find rocks and bugs) because there was almost never any other Sims on the commercial lots by the time my Sim arrived, so I didn't like TS3 , except for the CASt tool! So I spent a LOT of my time making new swatches and making Sims with the new swatches in order to have fun closer to the level of fun I had with TS2.  That open world was the bane of my existence! 😅
And while I have TS2, I am afraid to play it much because as much as I love TS4, no game can compete with TS2, not by a long shot! 🥰  And then if I was playing TS2 all the time, I couldn't really help people with TS4 very well, and I also enjoy doing that, and it is also a better to help people!  But I hope you can get TS2 to run smoothly one day! 

Yes, it is easy to get derailed in a conversation (especially how my ADHD mind works!) I remember on the forums for TS3 a bunch of us were discussing the various foods that were in the game (since not all countries had all the foods that the game had) and somehow the conversation ended up to where several of us were sharing Mac & Cheese recipes! (I mentioned adding pepper jack!). 😂 

@TeoTeoTe0 Thank you for sharing it. I had issues trying to search for it on my Xbox, though it was simply because of how I had my privacy options set lol. I'm simply not a social person, so I had most of the social and sharing options disabled which seemed to prevent me from even searching at all. Once I sorted that out, or I think I have anyway, I found it and added it to my gallery so thank you again.

@PugLove888 I'm not sure it's actually the legacy edition since it's a digital version I bought on Amazon back in 2016. All I know is that by choice I just haven't updated it since it seems that so many updates just add new problems, and it seems my last update was when Realm of Magic released. I actually just went back to the PC version (and still won't let it update lol) because I've been having so many issues on console lately. I may be missing the updates, some of which include some free content, but I already had a bunch of mods and CC installed so that helps make up for the free content. One bad thing is I can't find mods anymore since you really can't find archived mods, though luckily I can at least do simple things myself like tuning mods.

Even without the CASt, Sims 3 will struggle anyway. I've personally tried all sorts of things to make it run smoothly from patches that let it use more ram, to optimization and cleanup mods, various option setups, and lord knows what else but in the end it still struggles. One other thing from TS3 I was thinking about a couple days ago that I'd love to see return is the option to fast forward through an interaction. Not sure if you remember it or not, but basically it put the game on the highest speed but only until the sim finished their active interaction. And hey you don't need to play Sims 4 that often to help others with it, just when updates release so you can experience the many problems for yourself!

At least it wasn't grilled cheese, or I might have assumed you had the grilled cheese aspiration but in real life lol.

To get back on topic, what is with the children between the new Mortimer and Bella? In my current save the story system gave them a daughter that looks a lot like Alexander, though even worse. Then in another save (which I accidentally saved over.... UGH) it gave them even more of the same. It's as if the couple simply aren't capable of nice looking kids, except for Cassandra (though I think she's adopted lol). To be fair I feel like most of the pre-made EA families (base game anyway) never have decent looking children. For example I'm not sure I've ever seen the Landgraabs have a decent looking child, and whenever the Pancakes have any they always seem to look like Bob. Alice Spencer-Kim and Eric Lewis have what I feel is the best one however, because they have a daughter in my current save that looks EXACTLY like Alice but with slightly darker skin and I've always loved Alice's look.

I will also forever hate the new Bella because she ruined one of my sim's marriages, which just happened to be with Cassandra. Bella had the incredibly bright idea to flirt with my guy WHILE Cassandra was sitting right there, and because of the oh so lovely sentiments system Cassandra seemed to permanently hate him. He even rejected the flirt, yet she still flipped out on him and completely ignored Bella. I even built their relationships back up and had them re-marry just before they became elders, which they were originally in the young adult stage when Bella ruined the first marriage, and even then Cassandra was still doing mean interactions to the point I just said "forget this" (though in a much more obscene way) and switched to a different household.