Can We Just Talk About How You Can Out Heal Caustics Ultimate With 1 Syringe Now

Totally disagree.  You've basiclly just shrugged off all the points made and put it in the "yes... but" category which is disingenuous.  Like the other claim that loads of people are playing caustic (they weren't, even less so now).  I don't see a common ground to continue this discussion.  I can counter most of the points you made but everything I say is "yes... but" so there is no way forward.

Sure, they tweak legends from time to time, I get that.  This was well over the top.  I hope they never do that to a legend you love as I am pretty sure you'd be singing a different tune then.  

- DR

I can agree that many Caustics rely on their Gas. They have a passive to which they can see through it, and combined with the 15% Fortified along witht the fact many players will turn and back away from it, a Caustic can rush in and take them out by surprise. Though...I don't play him xD

Try playing him and let me know how easy it is to rush a team with Caustic.  In very specific circumstances perhaps, but unless it's a pretty closed in area there are'nt many ways for people to get out of it.  This idea that it's automatic kills and makes things easy is pure fiction.

When it does work it's "good play".  I was hammered by a bangalore ultimate yesterday because I was pinned down (100+ damage).  Good play.  I'm not crying asking for a Bangalore Nerf; her ability was just used at the right time, normally you can evade or take minimal damage.  Like Caustic's gas.

Seriously, try it and post your experience here.

- DR

@Peri_Longbow_plzThis right here ladies and gentleman, is a dumb statement. Maybe you should take a look at the caustic subreddit first before posting as if you know how all caustics play and then comeback.

Before the nerf there were 2 different kind of caustic players. Campers and aggressive pushers with his ult while leaving his traps behind to slow down teams trying to third party. With his nerfs this killed both playstyles completely to the point you now have to hard camp to the end of the game, avoiding as many gunfights just so you can get a slight advantage now at the final circle.

The entire point of the gas is to DETER players from blind pushing and create space. At this current time this does not do this anymore. You actually see any casutics in game now? Most stopped playing him because people are no longer caring about the gas at all and just push through it while having a high rate of success.

It's like saying remove Bloodhound's scan and ult because it makes using a gun too easy. No, its part of the character and entire point of the character being made to begin with.

@BarretOblivion my dear, my dear... I don't have to look at a reddit page for mains. There I will likely find a lot of what is written here: A lack of coherent arguments.

What you say is only half true. I can only go with what I witness in-game. And in-game I see that a vast majority of Caustics play passively and try to rely on their gas to do the work. If there is a select few that do otherwise, I believe you, but that percentage is awfully underwhelming. And I bet that this proactive play style is paying off a bit more than the passive one.

The major problem with Caustic is that his suggested play style is hard to balance by proxy. Camping is an advantageous way of playing the game and usually yields better results. And unless the guy who camps is screwing up hard, most fights are in his favor. I know that is because I camp occasionally as well. By adding things like extra blocking factors or defense factors, you make it more frustrating for the guy who already will have a disadvantage to storm a place. Does that mean we have to remove it entirely? Not at all. But I'm saying that the advantages shouldn't bypass a certain threshold. Which it can very easily do. If you use Caustic for a different play style than what he's originally meant for and it works out a bit less beneficial for you, then you gonna have to deal with that.

Caustic's biggest disadvantage right now is his hitbox. And I don't know how many more times I have to mention that until someone finally acknowledges it, but if his hitbox was smaller, he'd be better in general to a point where he becomes more usable outside of buildings. Additionally, I'd also be up for letting his gas affect targets for 2 seconds after leaving the gas. That would always be a guaranteed 15 damage, plus additional time revealed, plus more slowdown time. So you'd always have a guaranteed 2 second slowdown, DoT and reveal. Fair deal for offensive use aswell.

Bloodhound is already deemed overpowered, and seeing how is usage rate is raising rapidly, he will eventually (probably) end up being nerfed. Caustic's usage rate was also rapidly raising, going from 'Seeing him occasionally' to 'Seeing him every second game' - He ended up being nerfed. So I don't see how this comparison is in your favor.

https://apexlegendsstatus.com/game-stats/legends-pick-rates

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@Peri_Longbow_plz wrote:

 Caustic's usage rate was also rapidly raising, going from 'Seeing him occasionally' to 'Seeing him every second game' - He ended up being nerfed. So I don't see how this comparison is in your favor.

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Did you even bother to lookup usage stats.  Caustic was about 4% pre nerf, he's dropped to about 2.6% pick rate now.  That is not even remotely close to "usage rate rapidly rising.... seeing him every second game".  

- DR

@Peri_Longbow_plz 

Doesn't that just give you anecdotal evidence? I mean unless you are playing over 100 games a day each day at different times to account for biases a site that just shows character statistics is just better than you see.

@RockDokRock 

Caustic lost a lot of what makes him unique when the gas damage went down, the problem I've noticed with caustic is that no matter what they do to him people playing against him will never change their approach whether or not his gas does more damage people run in and fight caustic regardless. It is crazy to me that every time I encounter caustic people are just marching in to fight him pre and post nerf. Thus respawn is balancing him around someone just sitting there in it.

Its always pretty funny when you manage to trap a person and watch them tick away to death. I think the argument is whether or not he should be able to do that I just don't think its that easy to get trapped and killed by old caustic but if you did get trapped it was oppressive. Respawn however by their own admission said that since losing the vision impairment he needed more damage, then they removed the damage as well to the lowest ever. Maybe give the guy back his vision impairment and see how that plays out.

Imagine if respawn could do patches with some urgency that would be cool could try to toggle around caustic a bit rather than having to wait until either the next event or season to see if they want to help out caustic or slap him even harder 🤔.