Hey @F1YBYN1GHT
I mean we've had a Wraith meta since launch, and Horizon's pure existence gives people a reason not to play Wraith.
She isn't even OP. Her Passive doesn't affect her enemies, she's not difficult to hit while she's going up the gravity lift, her hitbox is decently sized and her black hole is only strong in enclosed areas, where even then it gets shot down in under a second.
@CompleatBeetHer lift is super OP, she already has one of the best passives in the game silent dropping and instantly moving ability in one
Her Ult is ok imo, i mean it can be broken in 1 sec from only one guy shooting it but her Q is a whole different story, crazy hight advantage, whle team can use it, strafes are stupid in it, and it has litteraly no audio if there is something happening around you. Pathfinders Zip is a joke compared to Horizons lift. They should have never made it so we can stay on top of the lift for so long, it should push you on the direction you are looking at as soon as you reach up there so we cant get spitfire spammed from 30 feet above while strafing like a god
No doubt about that she is OP, but she ain`t the longest living OP legend. Pathfinder and Wraith was pretty much broken through the most of the game lifespan.
As far as Horizon goes on, its ridiculous. Look what Albralelie have to said about her. He is totally right on everything.
Her tactical need to have the same treatment as everyone else, aka no heals allowed while on it, lower the strafe speed by a lot, and on top of that her accuracy should be as everyone else when on Zip or so.
Then she will be fine, still super strong, but fair.
All they should do is test increasing the cooldown of her gravity lift again, or very minor nerfs to her strafing. If they overdo it Horizon will be useless. Her other abilities are just not great and she is genuinely the best thing to ever happen to Apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6P7lv5oZrE&t=431s
I don`t see how exactly she will be useless. Some people just love to be on the train on the most broken legends as far as possible, and saying they are fine. :D
No they are not fine.
Her passive is super strong, her ult is super strong(OP in a lot of situation, and you can throw it in a ridiculous huge amount of distance).
But her Tactical is the most broken thing this game has ever seen.
Straight away remove healing, as Pathfinder and Wraith can`t heal while on their tactical, and Horizon should not be able to do so. Nerf the accuracy while airborne. Nerf the strafing as well.
For god sake this ain`t a Hyper Scape to fight in the cosmos, oh sorry i mean the sky, and to constantly Vertical Tracking + ridiculous hard to hit(even from Pros) Air strafes.
And even after all of this nerf, she is still going to be super Strong, S tier for sure.
The biggest advantage in this game - High ground, and she can take high of a high ground for god sake. Her lift is going really high. Its a great reposition tool, taking high ground, and still can be used as a semi-disengage ability.
Lets not forget she has small .... hitbox, and still doesn`t have LP on her.
At the end of the day this is a shooter, not a League of Legends ... Power Creep on ability should stop, or better reverse it !!!
@LordloshBang But then we have the issue of why play horizon? The gravity lift, provides no extra movement when talking about simply moving across terrain, removing heals and nerfing strafe, kinda ruins the idea of the gravity lift, so why play horizon if I can play wraith and actually be able to leave
@TuxTart116 wrote:@LordloshBang But then we have the issue of why play horizon? The gravity lift, provides no extra movement when talking about simply moving across terrain, removing heals and nerfing strafe, kinda ruins the idea of the gravity lift, so why play horizon if I can play wraith and actually be able to leave
Didn`t you watch the video i post?
Albralelie its exactly right. Its literally what Devs have said, and then they released Horizon ....
As far as the question why play here? Simply enough. You still have top passive, you still have ultimate that you can pretty much get a triple kill with zero mechanical skill involved(to not even said zero skill at all), and without even draw your weapon wow.
You still have 1 of the best tactical, that sends you to the cosmos, and can give you High ground in absolutely every fight out there, not only that, but to your entire team, and then disappear, unlike Pathy grapple for example.
You still can use it for reposition, disengage and even escape mechanism.
But healing while riding this ..... ain`t fair for anyone, and takes zero skill, and shouldn`t be allowed.
At the end of the day this is a shooter game, and when you are about to die, cause someone is better than you, outplay you or so, you shouldn't be able to pop a panic key(Q) and get away with it. Same with Wraith players, that was all over the place, when they remove the insta Q, which was ridiculous.
Guess what good players adapt, and weak ones that were abusing this, and was pretty much straight up charge on you, and riding a totally broken mechanics for way too long, and when they were losing the 1on1 fight, they just press Q and were magically saved.
Again high ground, and even in Horizon case, its send you straight to the heaven and you really can take absolutely anything which is another ridiculous thing, but anyway if you and the team you are fighting is pretty much equally skilled, given that you have high ground, you should be able to win that fight 100% of the time. Even if they are a bit better than you, you should still be able to win the majority of the time, cause of the high ground. Its really a day and night difference, if you know what you are doing.
@LordloshBang Horizon does have one of the best tactical, but in my opinion that's how horizon should be played, A defensive but also attack based legend, there are easy ways to counter, such as cryptos emp, a wraith teleport and even some good gunplay can be useful against her, im not saying horizon doesnt need a nerf, she definetly does, but I think we need to carefully look at the meta, before we erase abilities that make a legend good
TuxTart116, by that logic i want Bangalore to have Wraith tactical, Gibraltar ult, and still be able to smoke and have double timing, is that fair?
And no she doesn`t have one of the, Its the best by far. I was watching Madness warming up for tournament, and playing solo pubs for it, and the guy literally wasted 2 mags at Horizon on her tactical, and hit her like 2 time ....
ShivFPS is constantly missing on her whole mags, and doing less than 50 damage, most of the time.
And actually no, no one counter her, maybe only Gibraltar dome, but dome save you against all, so ....
Again lets repeat:
What Albralelie said its 100% correct. its Devs own words using them for nerfing mechanics and legends.
And they release this .... lets call it - thing.
Again nothing against Horizon or any other legend, but some mechanics should be staying away from the game. Mechanics that are obviously unfair towards the whole player base. You have fun with it, obviously to get away with so much, but others are annoyed hard time.
Again in my mind, no auto-revive should exist in such games, no Goldpacks revive for half of your hp, no using of a tactical like phase, grapple, lift and you to be able to heals on that.
Horizon gives you everything, and that totally meaningless the rest of the legend and the concept we have so far.
Once again, removing her healing while riding to the sky, and nerfing(again nerfing, not removing) her strafing while on her lift and add accuracy penalty as everyone have and this is absolutely fair.
Don`t forget you can jump out of the lift every single second, and you have multiple options with it.
You pretty much can take any high ground, at any given situation, which gives you huge advantage. And you still can use it as reposition, disengage and escape mechanism. But you shouldn`t be allowed to do so, to ride on it, heal, and shoot back with 100% accuracy and pretty much abuse a totally broken mechanic.
At the moment its exactly that.
Lets not forget that while she riding on her Lift, she can use her ult, which is a huge thing, and you can still spam from the sky with nades. On top of that, you can use it this to block doors/corridors and so blocking enemies or totally throws them off.
Add this nerfs and she still going to be S tier, just not totally broken.
But knowing how Devs addressing balance, they are either going to kill her, or nerf something that doesn`t need to be nerf, and will still let the broken mechanic.
You can`t even 3rd party Horizon for god sake ... She is jumping on her from behind,she is dodging all his shots, while doesn`t even know he is shooting at her, on top of that she is completely dodging Gibraltar ult while in the sky .....
ShivFPS, a guy with 111k. on his record, whole mag on her from behind, and just 1 bullet on her, while she is riding to the sky .....
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/974415573
The clip is at 11:15
This clip is actually super funny, because he was matched with 2 cheaters, and he managed to jump one of them over the map and killed him. :D Helping to kill the other one as well. :D
@LordloshBang @KissYourHomieUwU @chuckmynorris Like I said in my previous post, im not saying that a nerf is insane, on the opposite actually, I agree she needs a nerf but the meta requires extreme percision to point, horizon is OP, but before we completely destroy horizon as a character, think about if horizon couldnt strafe or heal on her lift? then its useless, it at that point would provide no extra movement, when traversing landscape, the lift doesnt take you far enough to rival with something like octanes movement
Edit: Even nerfing the strafe and getting rid of healing is catastrophic whats her tactical use now?
@LordloshBang This shooter is movement based so I have to disagree.
Horizon’s only strong ability is her Tactical. Her Passive doesn’t have much impact and neither does her Black Hole: it’s too easy to escape and has a small radius. Horizon is supposed to be a movement Legend and if they take that aspect away by nerfing her into the ground she quite literally will become useless.
They should nerf her tactical by doing something like:
- Reduce the duration of the gravity lift by a very short amount
- Remove 100% accuracy while going up the lift but keep the accuracy while floating at the top
- Reduce the distance that Legends can rotate around in while using the lift
Taking away the ability to heal on it would be a terrible nerf.
@CompleatBeet wrote:@LordloshBang This shooter is movement based so I have to disagree.
Horizon’s only strong ability is her Tactical. Her Passive doesn’t have much impact and neither does her Black Hole: it’s too easy to escape and has a small radius. Horizon is supposed to be a movement Legend and if they take that aspect away by nerfing her into the ground she quite literally will become useless.
Thats completely untrue. And every pro player out there can disagree with you. Her passive is super strong. Her ultimate is super strong, require zero to no skill, the hole is big and can shrink the whole team in it, and you can get a triple kill without even pulling your weapon.
I don`t know if we are playing the same game to say that its too easy to escape or that it has small radius. If you throw it right and do the right stuff after its your win.
GO watch last ShivFPS stream for example, they manage to kill Tufi with it. Thats speak for itself how strong her ulty is.
Its movement based, but its still a shooter. Every FPS game have movement mechanics.
You can disagree all you want, but that doesn`t mean a thing. Its my opinion.
And the suggestion i make are 100% fair to her, and she will be still S tier and super strong.
What is not fair is to act like all is okay, its a casual problem, where all the Pro are saying she is out of her mind, and totally broken.
Just like the Wraith players, that were abusing a totally broken and OP legends, and saying she is fine, Horizon main are doing the same now.
The stuffs you can do with her is just ridiculous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM1SlCJxNIU
You should not be able to heal while on her lift, you should have accuracy penalty, and her strafing in the air should 100% be nerfed.
And then she would be fair.
You will still be able to get every high ground, and that alone gives you huge advantage. You can push everything with her tactical/ult, and take the enemy team high ground advantage, which is still super wrong(having in mid they want positioning to have impact in the game, yet they release Horizon, their balancing team is garbage), you still could get away from battle, pop a battery(like everyone else) and come back.
Sorry but when something is completely broken its broken. You can`t say black to white.
The equivalent to her being able to heal, should be pathy to automatically pop a battery when he use grapple, same on Wraith phase, Bangalore to become invisible in her smoke and automatically pop a battery, Mirage to pop a battery while invisible, Octane to auto-heal when he use his stim, Wattson to fully regen on her ultimate and you get the picture.
And yeah this is shooter, not LOL or Dota.
@LordloshBang Her lift doesnt compete for even basic movements with this nerf, if you are sprinting forward and your teammates use a lift to traverse, you gain no extra movement, her lift when used as movement cant compare to any other movement based ability
@LordloshBang I can agree, on that, high ground is key and horizon has it easily accsesible maybe, make the lift go lower than it currently goes currently? Im just spitballing here, but I think something to make the high so much harder to obtain to would be amazing, as for the strafe, i think make the strafe have a shorter length, so you cant bounce around without being touched.
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