Re: Just witnessed the most bot team win

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@reconzero wrote:
@WhoopFighter

"Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close."

Not disagreeing with much of anything you said except the above. 25 year of aa on xbox and my weapons have NEVER snapped to a target or given me any kind of a sense of confidence going into a close-quarters engagement. My accuracy is what used to be considered average, but there are no average players left in the game anymore. As you noted. I just get frustrated when everyone attributes unbeatable players to aim assist. I have had aim assist forever and I can assure you, I'm very beatable. And given all the other ways these guys seem to be cheating, is it such a stretch to believe that their aim is being helped far in excess of anything built-in aa can do?

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I was the same way with a controller. Some people just have better hand mechanics for controller. That's one of the issues I have with it. You can find any mouse and keyboard to fit any sized hand correctly. Controllers in contrary only fit a certain percentage of hands well. You should try using a mouse honestly, you'll probably end up enjoying shooters a lot more. I could never go back and play shooters with a controller after switching.

When I die to someone one-clipping me, it's usually a controller player. You can watch how they rotate their character, it's smooth, there's no flicking back and forth to check blind spots. While I watch them, they just stick to targets, rotate perfectly with their opponent. So that's a problem for a multitude of reasons, it alleviates brain power, which allows them to focus more on their movement and positioning. Obviously it keeps them on target, they don't seem to be searching for a hit box, in contrast I'm crossing back and forth over my opponent searching for some hit reg. I've seen guys aim a couple feet to the side of their opponent and still get shots to register. So the hit box is there, but as a mouse player, I'm looking at the character, not their hit box. Then you have all the visual clutter on top of that, which effects a mouse user far more than a controller player.

The only solution is to separate lobbies. It's not fair, but that's the best we can do with the mentalities that have formed around aim assist given to only some, and that is somehow even?!

I've seen some people with near MnK movement on a controller, so why should they get aim assist then? If they can do anything I can on a mouse, what's the point? Anyone that's even slightly above average with a controller has the capability of one clipping a player easily. That's not easy with a mouse. There's so much prediction, no one stands still for even a millisecond in this game, 20 tick server, lag comp, stuttering, all adds up to a lot of mental stress to stay on target. I think it gets grossly underestimated how much brain power it takes for a mouse player to stay on target. People literally practice in aim trainers for days to get proficient at aiming! What controller players are doing that?

I'm sorry that you're maybe having a rough time. If I remember correctly, you're on console? If there's anyway you can try using a mouse, I highly encourage you to do so. Not just for Apex, for any shooter. It gives a more connected feeling while playing. If you don't have the thumbs to be pro with a controller, which most of us don't, using a mouse will make you a much better player. I struggled for years, grew up on console, then switched in my twenties, and I became the player to beat amongst my friends.

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@WhoopFighter wrote:

If I remember correctly, you're on console? If there's anyway you can try using a mouse, I highly encourage you to do so.

I struggled for years, grew up on console, then switched in my twenties, and I became the player to beat amongst my friends.

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@WhoopFighter 

I hope you are suggesting a switch from console to PC, and not a way to use m&k on a console, which would attract a ban.

@OldTreeCreeperWas that really necessary? Maybe a little over zealous today?

Maybe they have a friend, sister, wife, or a brother that's has a PC they could try? Personally I don't see a problem with using a xim as a way to use MnK on console, but that's just my opinion, and not one I stated in this thread, until now. Nor is that what I suggested. They are an adult and can make their own decisions.

I'm on PC, so I don't know the TOS for console, but I doubt that would actually get you banned. Not really my concern though, is it?

Any form of 3rd party software is considered cheating.

And that means for all the clowns running and gunning with their macros on a mouse, using xims or cronus packs, yes...that means you are hacking the game.

Read the terms of service etc etc etc. 99% of players don't and have no clue.

@WargasmatronCool, can you all stop derailing the conversation now? This wasn't a discussion about using outside software for Apex.

Thanks.

@reconzeroWith aim assist, the average controller player will have a much higher accuracy than the average mouse user. So it's not a small percentage, nor are they abusing it. That part of your statement doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

You can look up stats from other games that have a lot of aim assist as well. There's some very damning charts from Halo Infinite, and it showed just how much of a disadvantage you were trying to use a mouse. I tried playing the game when it released. Aim assist does stick to players, and that's not because it's a third party software aimbot, it's just your regular aim assist. Which could be argued that it is in fact an aim bot. It's a script that tracks an enemy for the player, but it's a "legal" aim bot because it was put into the game by the developers.

I'm not sure if Apex has a "snap to target" like BF2042 has, but there is certainly a lot of rotational assist in the game. Once you're on target, it will absolutely stick if you know how to move your sticks in a way that promotes that. And I'm not talking about tracking with the joystick, it's if you strafe while ADS, it will then stick to the target. If you don't strafe correctly, it doesn't stick as well. It's like that in most games I've tried with AA. It sticks a lot more if you just simply strafe a little bit.

This is always how the discussion goes unfortunately. Fair is that no one gets aim assist, and if you want to be top dog in a PC game, then you should have to use a mouse. That would be fair. It's not about fair, and I think fair competition is a fallacy anyways, but when they're trying to sell us on a competitive game, that's where the issue lies.

I wouldn't care about aim assist nearly as much if the game was designed around something other than just trying to win gunfights. When I have 1,000's of hours using a mouse and keyboard across multiple FPS games, have gear that's all the lowest latency including my monitor, use my arm on my 19" x 19" mouse pad to aim, to just get beat by someone that's using their thumbs... that's insulting. I don't know how else to put it.

Imagine iRacing being taken over by controllers because they gave them assist in racing. So you could either put together $2,500 racing rig, or just use a $50 controller to win races. It's the same thing here, but it's been normalized for some reason, mostly because of consoles. Which I don't have any issue with consoles themselves.

Switching to a mouse would definitely take time, but if you already understand how to play, it should be a bit easier. I grew up using a controller, and no way I could go back. So I'm sure you could pick it up just fine if you were motivated enough, like anything else.

@WhoopFighter 

I dont think you could argue that aim assist is aimbot at all. Afaik they are 2 completely different things.

I play on console, but i am always suprised that m&k pc players complain about aim assist. Theres no way i can compete on a controller against the range and speed of movement and response times on m&k, as an ordinary player.

By the way, clarity again please, what fellow volunteer are you talking about? Thanks

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@OldTreeCreeper wrote:

@WhoopFighter 

I dont think you could argue that aim assist is aimbot at all. Afaik they are 2 completely different things.

I play on console, but i am always suprised that m&k pc players complain about aim assist. Theres no way i can compete on a controller against the range and speed of movement and response times on m&k, as an ordinary player.

By the way, clarity again please, what fellow volunteer are you talking about? Thanks

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I wrote a lengthy response, but it got deleted, or it's being looked at since it had links? So this will be shorter and to the point.

Aim assist is a form of an aimbot. They can both work the same way depending on what you're using and the parameters you give it. The amount of assist players get now days with a controller, if I had seen that a decade ago, I would have called that a "soft lock aimbot".

How about this, you think Xim is cheating? I don't think you even understand what it does. It EMULATES a controller so that you can use a mouse instead. It can't do anything different then what a controller can do. So if you think aim assist with a mouse using Xim is cheating, then think about that for a bit. It's only doing what's possible with a controller. I'm aware the new one has recoil scripts now, but people still use the old ones, and then there's a lot of people that don't use the anti-recoil functions. Also, you will not get banned for simply using a Xim, you know why? Because it doesn't do anything that a controller can't already do.

If you were actually interested in this topic you could easily search for things like Apex accuracy charts, Halo Infinite, and so on. There's charts for Apex R5 and Halo Infinite that clearly show that there's a BIG advantage to using a controller with aim assist. There's also a good article on the Washington post about the kid that won the Fortnite solo tournament, and when he won, he said "thanks to aim assist" lol.

When you responded to me defending your earlier post, I read it as you were defending a follow volunteer, I didn't realize it was just you again. I do think you were over policing the forums and being weird about the cheat thing. I don't think that's how you should be moderating a forum. You're being a tool is my point.

@WhoopFighter 

Simply put, i dont think any cheating is ok, yet it appears you do. Name calling is really childish.

I had a lengthy discussion at one stage with someone who fundamentally understood the difference between aim assist and aimbot and they explained it to me. Perhaps you need to do a bit more searching and not just make assumptions and assertions.

@OldTreeCreeperWho is this person? What is their credibility. Clearly I've done more research than you, and I've given you what you need in order to read up on the subject, yet you never will.

You are overreaching a bit as a moderator. I think it's childish to chime in and say "you better not even hint at cheating, otherwise you're gonna get banned". Then to follow up, "thanks for clarifying that you in fact did not recommend someone to cheat". Seriously dude? Let conversations naturally form, you don't need to police things before they happen. If you didn't have the volunteer badge, I wouldn't have said anything, but you're sporting it, so there is some responsibility with that.

Using a Xim is not cheating, and that's an opinion. Saying that is outright cheating is another opinion, not fact. It cannot do anything different than what a regular controller can do. It emulates, doesn't change the function in any way.