Re: Valk / Flight

@Sand_spitter 

One does not have to main a character to be able to see what's right.

I mean, you would know that, since you're making this post after all... so you're just sticking that title on me because those are the only people that can disagree with your statement?

Not a good way to start off...

People can bail yes, though they need to have the proper cover to do so.

If they're able to fly away then they could've just ran away.

Now of course it's harder to pursue them, though otherwise you would just be running after them anyways, better to target someone else.

The changes literally make it so they can't move as far... so that issue has theoretically been solved, it's not really a complete bailout.

It's also not really impossible to shoot down someone that's going up with the ult.

If something is good, why should it become worse?

Because it's used a lot? Because it doesn't promote healthy diversity for the game?

It's never broken by design, you can always just rework a legend by replacing an ability.

According to you it's not possible to fix it with simple changes, a rework would be the proper thing to do.

And like you said, how do we fix it without making a legend useless?

Well, that's the neat part, we can think of something so it's easier for the devs.

Now of course it's not our job, though good luck convincing people for a change if you don't have a plan in mind.

Cheap tricks?

Movement has always been one of the major things in the game.

Yes, whilst this is something easy to use and rewards pretty well, you can't just blindly land somewhere.

Your position will be announced to everyone near, and yes, whilst you can see them, they will also be able to see you.

Information is useful, though not useful enough if everyone starts turning against you.

I personally don't see an issue with promoting movement around the map, though limiting that range is a good thing, luckily that's something they're already doing.

How about we wait for the changes and see what they do?

If it's still too broken, we can still try to fix it, though we shouldn't make drastic changes before trying other options first.

@Sand_spitter 

I think that's on the other players for not being aware of other players applying this strategy.

Others might miss out because they aren't even using it themselves, too bad for them.

And with the recent changes she won't even be able to stay high up in the air for too long, that'll destroy it.

One small piece of damage disables the ult from being used for 15 seconds... so this scenario is almost completely prevented if you just shoot the Valk that would make use of this strategy.

Next to that, since she's not able to scan enemies anymore, it's going to be extremely unsafe to use her ultimate to land in a safe spot.

Others will know where you are, you will not know where others will be.

Using her passive does take some practice, improper use will just make you a bigger target.

And yes whilst it might be easier to gain vertical height in comparison to other legends, do note that those other legends are better in other situations.. so each is better in their own situation.

With her fuel capacity being brought down it will be even harder to go around and just flying like you're mentioning.

So why do you think these changes won't do anything despite them targeting the exact flaws?

@XHelperZBecause I don't think that having her in the game was a good choice to begin with. Flight is a problem in and of itself. It does not belong in this game....just look at us, having a convo about a character's movement being problematic...just ridiculous to introduce something so unique in the 1st place. I have no idea how good you are at the game, but the "just shoot her" idea doesn't really solve anything. I would like to see you shoot me out of the air while I also have the ability to do an emote which makes it even harder while I can grant my team a whole reset when we land. Again, it might not matter in your lobbies, but this character single handedly changed how we play, that's saying a lot.

Also, how is it "on them" if you abuse the ability in the final ring when people can't see where you are while fighting? No other character is able to do that and their abilities at least give you a fair fighting chance in return.

@Sand_spitter 

Is it that unique though?

We have abilities that give vertical movement (E.c Jump pad, Gravity lift, Castle wall)

Now her passive, sure that's fine to use, but her ult?

Well the problem with her ult is probably how far she can travel, it's literally being cut in half in the next update... issue solved!

Her ultimate will grant your team a reset?

No, with the new change it will not.

You won't be able to see where players are, you won't be able to scan a safe place to land.

Others however will be able to see you land, you'll become a target.

Yes whilst you might not be able to finish off that team, another player will be able to do that once they land.

Games constantly change, the core of this game hasn't changed.

The way you fight in close encounters, yes, though longer term fights have changed a bit, which don't make such a big portion of the game.

This is just one of the many abilities, I doubt it changes the game that much.

And again, the changes that are going to be made literally fix the points you have the issues with...

Just wait until they release these changes, you can't just say they won't do anything without having tried it.

And it's on them because they're not applying meta-critical strategies.

Strategy is still important, if you're not using what is good then you're not utilizing it properly.

There probably are so many strong strategies that exist, though haven't gained that much traction, therefore they're not being used massively.

Now of course changes should be made when they're used too much to keep things fresh, which again, is being done in the upcoming update.

Every abilitiy/ultimate can be pretty situational, you can't really say situational things are design flaws just because they're used in such a way.

@Sand_spitter

Loba is able to teleport to an exact position instantaneously, granting both horizontal and vertical movement.

The travel time is a proper thing to have for this ability because it properly balances it, this would not work for Valk's passive.

She becomes a pretty easy target using her passive, only being really useful when travelling small distances or when they're on your flank.

Unable to shoot, whilst other legends with abilities like that are able to shoot... so it's pretty much in a good spot.

Also the change to her passive would literally mean she'd have Vantage's ability... which is just not a good thing to do.

If they released just another character with other abilities then you'd still find faults within it, nothing is perfect after all.

You say it as if you know anything else would just be better, though that's just not right.

Why do you have such bad hopes for these changes?

Well at least, I'm basing them on a leak that wouldn't be something that you would be able to trust.

Though personally I would think these changes would work fine for a legend.

You see balance isn't just so easy, sometimes it can take ages to properly balance a legend.

In this case we have the community greatly dislike what's going on, that means that they'll have to take action fast, which typically means dumpstering the legend.

Well either way, let's just wait it out :v

@Daze623 It does help my point though.

Gibby has been getting nerfs, they haven't worked.

Why? Because the nerfs simply were just small changes, targeted to make him fall out of the meta long term without dumpstering him.

Currently, it seems like we instantly want to take everything away and change it all.

Is it more acceptable just because Valk isn't one of the base legends the game started with?

No of course not, so I'm trying to point out that taking the long term route is for the best, as we obviously don't want to dumpster them.

It hasn't worked out yet for Gibby, though of course there are plenty of other pressure points they're working on.

Once a game has a meta then it becomes impossible to not have a single time without a meta without it feeling like garbage.

There will always be legends that stand out on the top, resulting in handicaps here and there.

And whilst I do understand the frustration, it's much better to adjust values rather than completely remove a design element.

"There's a reason why they're spread around"

Yes, because the developers decided that, you think they just randomly decided to add in the Valk ult without second thought?

We're dealing with devs here, not machines that produce random results.

Let's first change it so the ultimate isn't as strong, that's easy to do.