Re: The Portal XP Nerf and the Betrayal of "Full Progression" - Targeted Solutions

Hi - I don't have a problem with this. In BF 2042 - I always used coop / bots to level up guns to level 12 and get the attachments unlocked. Though so far I have not been able to make such a server - get the error message and if I try to join others - it just kicks me to game start page again !

It’s honestly ironic that some players join multiplayer to play against bots. The whole point of multiplayer is to compete against real people, to measure your skill against others who are trying just as hard.  I’ve never understood the logic that if something is difficult, it should be cheated. Difficulty is what gives progression meaning.

Older Battlefield players will remember that farming used to be bannable. In Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 3, players who farmed kills or stats were punished because it went against the entire spirit of fair play. Stats are meant to represent your actual skill and experience.

Bots have no place in multiplayer environments.

Bingo.

I completely agree with what you've said, Danisoff.

The best thing, and to please the majority, would be for EA to add the full experience back to Portal, but not including the stats against bots.

Simply playing against bots would unlock weapon attachments.

It's not ironic, I can help you out there.
People play multiplayer to either play against other humans like you, with other humans, or with and against other humans.
The point of multiplayer for everyone is to have fun.

Those like you only enjoy measuring your skill against others in a game like this.  Other people enjoy playing with their friends, against others for the same reason as you, or against bots for a more relaxed game.  Bots absolutely have a place is multiplayer, just not your multiplayer environments, but no one is trying to force you to play against bots.  Difficulty is what gives your progression meaning, not everyones.  

If progression meant increasing your level and unlocking cosmetics(to flex or whatever), and improving your stats like k/d, I'd agree with you. 
Unfortunately weapon attachments(and to a lesser extend weapons/gadgets), make a massive different in weapon strength, and if everyone isn't on an even playing field, it is literally not fair.  It should be skill vs skill, gear power shouldn't come into it in BF.

I agree with your points for stats, but not for attachment unlocks.  If everyone in your games got their weapons/attachments from farming bots, how is that bad for you?  Someone playing bots doesn't affect your matches.  
I can see you hate bots, but I don't understand why others liking playing against bots affects your game at all.  It's not cheating, it was literally advertised as a feature for the game.

Completely agree.  If I didn't need those unlocks, I wouldn't need to play against bots.  I just don't have the time to try to compete with better geared people.  I don't want any stats like k/d from bots to affect my pvp stats.
Some people enjoy playing against bots, let them.  It literally doesn't affect my game at all.

This is a multiplayer game and getting full xp vs bots disrupts the progression integrity. What else do you really think they did this for?

For some of us who have disabilities like Charcot Marie Tooth Syndrome (CMT) That effects your nerves, your sensory and motor skills the Portals were awesome to play in. You take 5 steps on a real server and you get shot by a sniper or get into a situation where you can't think fast enough or have the reflexes to act on it, especially since there are hacks still in BF6 Arctic cheats claims to be undiscoverable. The Portal Exp was one of the man reasons i decided to try Battlefield, it's the first in the series i tried. But I prob won't play it as much now, ever since i noticed the changes and read about it i got on another game i could enjoy more. Bit of false advertising if you ask me and we should start asking for refunds based on that fact...
Complain to Government Protection Agencies: In the U.S., you can file a complaint with the FTC
In the EU, you can contact your local consumer protection authority.
Request Refunds: Some platforms (like Steam or the PlayStation Store) may offer refunds if a game’s core features are removed or significantly altered.

.No Man's Sky: Initially criticized for missing features, but the developers later added them back, avoiding legal action.Star Wars Battlefront II: Faced backlash and regulatory scrutiny over loot boxes, leading to changes in the game and industry-wide shifts.

DICE (the developer) and EA (the publisher) have historically made statements about features, rewards, and gameplay mechanics in their games, including Battlefield titles. If they explicitly promised full XP for using official rules and modes in Battlefield Portal—for example, in official blog posts, trailers, or marketing materials—then players could argue that this was a commitment to consumers.

You must of really enjoyed bf3 to bf5.

"This is a multiplayer game and getting full xp vs bots disrupts the progression integrity. What else do you really think they did this for?"

Progression integrity?  What the hell is that :)  I think they did this as a knee-**bleep** reaction to the server quota issue.
What is your actual concern, that people will be as well geared as full-time gamers?  All is does is make it skill vs skill.

The problem with bot farms is that they are not intended to play the game, people just join and stand at the bot spawn killing them. Same with AFK servers, join the server and go grocery shopping, level up while not even present at your device. Like in what world is this considered normal?! There is nothing wrong playing games against bots, as long as they play the game and not just stand there shooting them.

And the reason why anyone cares about getting the unlocks faster is, they get stronger guns, better attachements and this gives an unfair advantage. The k/d you talk about, well it looks many absolutely care about it or they wouldn't be exploiting bot farms and to then go boast around and pretend what they're not, what's even the point of stats anymore, what's even the point of playing the game if all this is being allowed.

The game is released 12 days ago and many are crying to get everything unlocked, this game isn't ment to be completed in two weeks, it's ment to enjoy and unlock for months and the more they play the faster the rewards they'll get. What will these bot farmers do when everything is unlocked in two weeks, week three they'll be bored and leave the game because there's nothing more to unlock or they'll join actual lobbies and get pawned having the highest rank and k/d looking like clowns, not that anyone cares but they sure do.

Many should remember that playing video games is about having fun, not about ego.

But the same goes for the point:
When person A got 1 hour a day is playing against person B with 4 hours a day.
B will have more attachments and going to laser A.
So whats is exactly the problem here, when person A hosting a standard lobby with a passwort, with bots which giving you 50% xp or 10% (like they already did before the newest changes) and the person still need more time to get to the same attachment level?
Explain it to why dice need to threat "A" persons like the guys who were totally abusing it?

hi commander i have cmt too, the fact bf 6 was sold as having full progression was a life saver..finally...but now its taken away. im back to spending hours just running to my death!...what type do you have? type 1a here.

"The problem with bot farms is that they are not intended to play the game, people just join and stand at the bot spawn killing them. Same with AFK servers, join the server and go grocery shopping, level up while not even present at your device. There is nothing wrong playing games against bots, as long as they play the game and not just stand there shooting them."

You described what a bot farm is, but I'm not clear on why it's bad.  How is it affecting your gameplay?
I played against bots to grind away at weapon attachments.  It wasn't an afk server or anything, I still played, but I wouldn't need to play bots if there wasn't a massive grind unless I felt like a more chill night shooting.  It does not impact anyone else's game except for stats - which I agree bot kills shouldn't count - and clogging up server quotas.  

"And the reason why anyone cares about getting the unlocks faster is, they get stronger guns, better attachements and this gives an unfair advantage. The k/d you talk about, well it looks many absolutely care about it or they wouldn't be exploiting bot farms and to then go boast around and pretend what they're not, what's even the point of stats anymore, what's even the point of playing the game if all this is being allowed."

Yes, the advantage of people who play like it's a full time job absolutely gives them an advantage.  Casuals need to bot farm to level the playing field so it is fair.  If people are bot farming for k/d, they have bigger issues.

"What will these bot farmers do when everything is unlocked in two weeks, week three they'll be bored and leave the game because there's nothing more to unlock..."

I've never played Battlefield for unlocks.  I play for fun.  Initially it is cool to unlock new weapons and test them out, but now the testing is locked behind an insanely big attachment grind.  Some people have the time for that, others don't.  

"Many should remember that playing video games is about having fun, not about ego."

Agreed.  I think that's why so many people are upset they can't legitimately play against bots and not progress like everyone else playing the game.  Some people farm bots to get the gear to put them on equal footing in pvp, others devote every day to it.  In the end if everyone has all their attachments unlocked, it then becomes skill vs skill.

I got a bit lost there sorry.

Yes, if person A plays less than B, B will laser A if they are same skill level/circumstances.  It's an unfair advantage for the person with the attachments they want for their build.  
Some people can play all day everyday in pvp and gain all their attachments.  Casual players like person A trying to level weapons against those players is at a big disadvantage - they get killed more often, more time dead means less time killing, less killing means less weapon progression(kills and assists).  And if you decide to try different guns, the gap gets bigger. 
When Portal gave full XP, it puts everyone on essentially the same footing - everyone has a way to grind out weapon attachments at a decent speed, either playing pvp as a full time job, or part time bot servers.  Neither affects the others game.  
If it doesn't affect another persons game, I don't see how it's abuse/cheating, except from those that only want unlocks the way they got them for some ego driven reason from my limited understanding.

As I recall, Battlefield 3 and 4 allowed you to buy shortcut kits, which opened up full access to weapons, gadgets, and weapons. Whether you buy these kits or play with friends on 'bot' servers, you're still leveling the playing field, gear wise.

My main issue is that some of the challenges and assignments are very tedious. I've been trying for 2 days to farm 300 suppressions with an LMG. But at any time I peek out from behind cover for long enough to get a suppression I get shot by a sniper with a range finder that basically can't miss. I'm only halfway with the challenge, and I am very tired of being killed by snipers who never even try to play the objective but just go for headshots, even though their score is only halfway up the scoreboard..... At least in bot games I could have done that slightly faster, because bot teams don't consist out of 50% snipers.

Agreed, it should be skill vs skill, gear should be the same(or easy to attain)
If people want progression, make it titles and cosmetics, something that doesn't affect "power" in a match.

the problem is people are upset that people are inflating their stats and having a higher level despite it not actually meaning they are a better player, a lvl 80 bot farmer will still get stomped by a lvl 6 rocking an SGX. The solution? Easy, Remove the xp from bot killing but keep weapon and challenge progression then everyone is happy. I don't play bots, They are boring for me but I see the outrage. If Battlefields main selling point for a lot of people was that Portal would have full exp and progression then to renege on that after people have handed over their money is not fair to those players who solely purchased the game with the expectation of said Portal experience. 

There are so many variables here though. Multiplayer is meant to be fun. Before widespread internet connection, multiplayer was introduced to play with friends, in the same room. I would appreciate the portal to have 10-30 of my friends list, in the same room, against each other, having fun.

 I don't have an issue with K/D ratios, bots or no bots. The issue is, they advertised normal progression in portal, playing tailored matches for you and friends. They took it away. Rather than fixing the real problem of not having enough server space.

If the matchmaking was better, the people who are farming for a high K/D, will just get shown up in the "real" experience. Same as if matchmaking is based on the player rank. If it's all farmed XP, you'll have an easy time.

What they have done is backwards. It wouldn't be such a backlash, if it was the other way round. I somewhat agree. If it has to be done, remove the ranking for soldier but allow the weapon progression.  My honest opinion is just leave it how it was. It doesn't affect your gameplay. They could fix some other, more pertinent issues instead.

Cheating, Map/mechanic abuse. The console only cross play. Other bugs, misinformation that isn't listed here.

Person A gets the same results playing vs easy bots as person B who is more dedicated to the game.

Person B should be rewarded for their dedication more than Person A.

You are missing my point and viewing this based on your gameplay, i absolutely don't say playing against bots is bad, i enjoy it to. There is a huge difference between playing against bots and bot farming as i mentioned, keep in mind, all weapon, attachements, challenges where available until today for all progression in bot lobbies, EA removed it because bot farms were exploiting it, here is how it affects, you, me and everyone because they just stood there in a bot farm at spawn point shooting bots to unlock everything.   

 - They now took away all progression from everyone who loved playing bots. Many people only want to play bots, many people only                  can play bots, so the result of these exploiters is that they all have a useless game and will never get any attachements unlocks and              can't do the challenges to unlock the perks.                                                                                                                                                                                     - They have an unfair advantage running with fully equipped top tier weapons that normally and will take us months to unlock.                         - They unlocked all gadgets. Again unfair advantage being able to use all the stuff no one has yet. 

Do you understand the huge impact this has on everyone who actually play the game? Bot farms are there only to exploit and the ones farming only care to get stronger weapons, the top tier attachements, less recoil because no one has it and that's the only way these losers can get a kill on the multiplayer map.                                                                                                                                                                               

What they did is also made the class tiers completely irrelevant, in the past people looked up to top tier gamers, people grinded their butts of to become Elite, You did it all, you are a veteran, you are a true gamers..Now, it means absolutely nothing no more.

I don't blame the people who do it, they're probably kids and the ones older than 14 have a brain the size of a fruit fly. I blame EA for allowing this to happen, they have literally managed to ruin their own game in less than two weeks.

"I think that's why so many people are upset they can't legitimately play against bots and not progress like everyone else playing the game."

So understand that no one is upset with people playing against bots, nor progressing against bots. And they definitely need to bring back progression in bot games and deal with this bot farming issue in a propper way.                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

That's true, I remember a lot of players getting banned for stats padding with defibs in BF2 lol.

Well you can do your challenge on smaller maps not suitable for snipers, and also, these big challenges are not ment to be cleared in one or two days. Just take your time, enjoy the game. If you make it feel more like a job than a game, you’ll start hating it and quit altogether.

Challenges shouldn't be doable vs bots.

Someone will have the round of their life completing some of them and some body who boosted it vs bots will rock up with the same stuff, that doesn't sit right.