Re: New Ability: Plant Mech

How can I say no to a Flying Mech Unicorn Chomper?

I think a Mech Suit for the Sunflower could also work, she could have a heal beam on one arm and a sun beam arm laser on the other  hahaha.

Might suit the Rose better since she's so redundant now and has some nice CC she can cast when she evacuates the Robo.

For now I'm sticking with Chomper, don't see why Plants can't have TWO Mech equivalents! I mean if Zombies can have a Mech without a Plants having one, why can't Plants have one without Zombies having one, or two if they do have one.

I am serious though, let's see what everyone else has to say 🙂

I can't see it happening myself.

Any bite variant of chomper can already solo a mech. Why would they give an anti-mech class mech ability on top? It's not as if they are hard to kill with quite a few other classes of plant as it is. Nice idea (I guess), but it's really not necessary.

A more fun version would be one that grew in size for each zombie swallowed, gaining health and damage along the way. Even then it would be way too much power on something that doesn't need it.

I have to say though your arguments around balancing seem to be simply making the 14 classes into 7. Sunflower with warp & shotgun, rose with turret and engineer damage, and now a chomper with mech. Personally I'd find it rather boring to go from 14 to 7 'mirror' classes.

@InC0g

Thanks for your input and opinion 🙂

It is clear that you may only enjoy playing as a Mech when on the zombie side, please may I ask why?

Do you not find the idea of Mech vs Mech scenario fun, fair or balanced?

Its only one design implementation that would help balance the scales for the Plants, in almost all the game modes.

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@Zaheen1337 wrote:

@InC0g

It is clear that you may only enjoy playing as a Mech when on the zombie side, please may I ask why?

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This method of debate of yours is really getting on my tits. You ALWAYS accuse people who disagree with you zombie lovers (as if most people don't play both anyway). It's a really bad way to shut down a discussion. FYI I don't have a single imp leveled up to even bronze. I don't play it all. So wrong again. I mainly play plants if I can, so again you'd be wrong if you ever thought I mained zombies at all.

One thing you forget is that an awful lot of people you've accused of the above are GW1 vets, and have played it since release, unlike yourself who's bought it after playing the GW2 beta. They have alot of valuable insight that you often choose to ignore. You know best right? That's not to say your input is invalid, but you need to start listening to other opinions as well.

If you don't think giving plants a mech will cause a massive imbalance then I think it's you who is the biased one. 

@InC0g

Hold up...

Which part of anything that I wrote implied you as a zombie lover? If you don't like my opinion or suggestions then feel free to say so, but there is no need to insult me or show hostility, or even accuse me of something I haven't done.

Just because I purchased the game this year doesn't mean jack, I've been playing games for over 25 years, and I know balance and imbalance when I see it. What worked in GW1 isnt going to work in GW2 once you start changing game mechanics and game modes where plants also have to attack. You need to give BOTH TEAMS an even and BALANCED set of tools in order to complete the SAME OBJECTIVE.

I don't care what you think of me as a player man, just because they've played since GW1 since release, so what? I've played GW2 since release and this is what I think of it. I probably played more than they did in the first one in the month that I played anyway, thus making me a vet by that logic? I'm not claiming to be anything, I'm just a casual unbiased player wanting balance in this game.

Also in case you haven't noticed, I'm on the same team and side as you, that's if you're wanting the same thing. If you don't want the same thing then you're obviously a zombie lover. Since you accused me of something I didn't do, I might as well go and do it now. I was very polite in my previous post, and read over your response and look how hostile it is. Anyway whatever man.

Why do you think other shooter games maintain and keep a high player base? It is because games are balanced and fun.

Now I'll ask the same question again, why do you think it's fair for one side to have a 400 health Mech that wrecks, but not the other?

Nice quick edit there. You removed all the insults which showed exactly what I meant how you argue a point 😉

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@Zaheen1337 wrote:

@InC0g

Hold up...

Which part of anything that I wrote implied you as a zombie lover? If you don't like my opinion or suggestions then feel free to say so, but there is no need to insult me or show hostility, or even accuse me of something I haven't done.

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Oh that's odd because you clearly stated I must love being imp and in mech - which i loath anyway. This is your normal method of debate across numerous threads against anyone who disagrees with you. In future attack the argument not the poster.

Now back on topic. I don't think a mech variant of any plant class is a particularly good idea for the following reasons:

1. There are already many readily available counters to him without a mech. Chomper bite variant (you must know this if you play him), gatling pea, sunflower sunbeam, corn shuck shot. All very commonly used plants. The chomper is probably the best at this though. You just don't see enough of him and bite variants that can deal with it. Let alone most players don't seem to be aware of it. It's very satisfying to chomp one to pieces knowing full well the player has been waiting a long time to use it 🙂
2. Power creep. The chomper is already quite beastly and is more than capable of wrecking all the problematic zombie classes. Too many buffs will make him godmode.
3. Balance in this game is not as bad as it seems. Some things need some minor love, and electro needs his splash reducing. Introducing a mech will only (massively) skew the balance yet again. It would make more sense to deal with the obvious minor things first.

Do you play Herbal Assault? I ask because over the last week or so I'm seeing a positive increase in plant victories, and in the way in which people are playing. More players seem to be starting to actively counter and shutdown the zombies now. For example last night I had 7 games - 4 plant victories to 3 zombie. Not so unusual perhaps but on Great White Hope we shutdown the zombies completely at the first cap, and on the 2nd when we played it again. On Moon Base Z i got switched to zombies. We got wrecked by a very well co-ordinated plant team. Very unusual for that map. It was beautiful even though we lost. Maybe it's just a case of waiting for the dust to settle after the rose nerf.

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@Zaheen1337 wrote:

@InC0g

Now I'll ask the same question again, why do you think it's fair for one side to have a 400 health Mech that wrecks, but not the other?

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Firstly it suits the theme of the zombies with all the technology. The plants don't have that. It would need to be more organic. If they did look at doing something like this I'd prefer what I suggested earlier as it would fit better with the overall theme of the game without being potentially OP beyond belief. Personally I don't have problems with dealing with them. Players simply need to learn how to counter more. That and make the imp vulnerable during his mech summon animation.

The other side to that argument is why do you think it's fair that plants have all the long ranged firepower, more splash damage, more denial of area and more cc, but not the zombies?

Each side has strengths and weaknesses, which is why I love this game. I don't want another copy paste shooter clone. Got bored of that way back after CoD4. That is why I don't like alot of your balance suggestions as most of them seem to revolve around creating symetrical classes per side. Sure that would be balanced, but reduces the game as a whole, and makes the whole PvZ thing a moot point as essentially they would be the same. Balancing doesn't have to be done like that. Look at GW1 - 8 completely different classes, but balanced. I'd rather strive for that than have another generic shooter copy.

PS You're biased towards the chomper - you've admitted it. That is not a good position to be in when balancing :P

I hold up my hands and admit sometimes I do quickly edit all the hostility out my posts, that's because when I read over it I'm not happy with what I've written? So why should I have to respond or receive hostility over a little mishap? I'm human just like you, and certainly not perfect. Anyway, since you've come back down to my level we can discuss this 🙂

Please do not allow my method of posting affect your opinion or views towards balance.

Yes I do play Herbal Assault, well actually I prefer Turf Wars, is it the same thing? Anyhow, I enjoy playing the other game modes as well. In my time on GW1 I didn't get to experience the other game modes because they weren't populated enough for me to do so.

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Back to my suggestion now, to me it's irrelevant aif the Mech has a counter, or can be brought down. You listed three very unusual scenarios that I rarely see happen in practice.

Sunbeam, if you're attacking as the Sunflower, I highly doubt you're going to successfully be able to set your Sunbeam anywhere and beam down a Mech, you'd be lucky to even beam an Imp, let alone a Mech, can a Sunbeam even fully kill one, would it literally stand still and say, go ahead Sunflower, please kick my *...

Pea Gatling, again, I don't even see any Peashooters, I've seen a couple on Sub and Gnome Bomb, and yes one took out my Mech but I had about 5 plants hitting me, not a fair scenario.

Chomper, again of course I know it's capabilities, but if you're an attacking plant I fail to see how you're even going to close the gap to a Mech.

Now, purely on the basis that it takes quite a few irregular abilities, or scenarios that either Sunflower, Peashooter or Chomper is on full health, and is able to take out a Mech without being killed by anything else is bizarre in itself, because usually zombie teams are always stacked. If half a team of plants are busy taking out a Mech, what are the rest of the zombies going to do?

In a shootout between a Mech against Sunflower, Peashooter or even a Chomper...the Mech always wins. Thus, invalidating your argument that a Mech can be easily shut down by a Chomper.

A Chomper can be easily shut down by everything, and that's why barely anyone plays it, and that is the whole point of this thread.

@InC0g

I don't think plants having long range weapons is a good thing, it gimps them for the most part. I'm still giving my brain a rest before I write up a massive list of balancing and tweaks for every class on each side, the ones that I feel need it of course.

I completely understand your fears of me me wanting balance, but look man, I'm here too? I purchased Call of Duty III with the limited edition PS4 and I've barely even played it. I also love the variation here, variation is fun, but only when it is balanced!

GW1 the plants were ALWAYS defending, it's not like that here, plants have to attack, they need a set of tools able to attack in the same way as the zombies.

Hence the need for balance, they gave Scientist a heal beam, they cloned Cactus and made Pirate, but instead of Tallnuts they gave him a Cannon that stops him getting Chomped that hits 50, everyone is using it as an anti Chomper, and also a TNT barrel that stops him getting Chomped and makes him armoured and explodes killing anything near it, balance? Oh wait, he also has a Shotgun!!!

One side is totally gimped in almost every possible way it could be. Something drastic needs to be done, or plants need to be given something slightly nutty to even the odds. And I believe this is exactly what the game needs...

• Cactus needs a Cannon and a Shotgun (Pirate Balance)
• Sunflower needs Warps and Heal Burst, oh and a Shotgun (Scientist Balance)
• Peashooter needs more health and better mobility (All Star Balance)
• Chomper needs more health, more damage, and more damage on his cannon, and range firearms (Super Brainz Balance)
• Rose needs more speed and damage, and a shotgun (Engineer Balance)
• Citron needs more armour and damage, and a shotgun (Imp/Mech Balance)
• Corn is fine, but what the heck, give him a bloody shotgun too (Soldier Balance)

And someone on the plants team needs a Mech too, else this will never be balanced.

By the way, my favourite class is and always will be the Chomper, Fire and Unicorn are my favourite variants, but guess what I'm playing the most right now?!

• Electrican
• Roadie Z
• Welder
• Zoologist
• Marine Biologist
• Paleontologist
• Computer Scientist
• Captain Sharkbite

Not dipped into the Imps yet, and why do I play all the above characters over the Chomper? Because they're so much better, in almost every single way.

Anyway back to the topic discussion, after I've detailed why plants need a counter to the Mech, how do you feel about Chompatron as the ability name?

Bump...

Where's the love?

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@Zaheen1337 wrote:

@InC0g

  

• Cactus needs a Cannon and a Shotgun (Pirate Balance)
• Sunflower needs Warps and Heal Burst, oh and a Shotgun (Scientist Balance)
• Peashooter needs more health and better mobility (All Star Balance)
• Chomper needs more health, more damage, and more damage on his cannon, and range firearms (Super Brainz Balance)
• Rose needs more speed and damage, and a shotgun (Engineer Balance)
• Citron needs more armour and damage, and a shotgun (Imp/Mech Balance)
• Corn is fine, but what the heck, give him a bloody shotgun too (Soldier Balance

I agree 100% with you.

@Sebatrox

Lol, I like you 🙂