Does SEE need a Booster character?

He for sure needs something. Without Wat he’s the only GL who cannot really reliably kill any others.

"Itsa_me_Malario;c-2426447" wrote:
He needs it more than anyone else, which is why its extremely weird that JMK, LV, and Rey got booster before SEE did, infact JML also has a booster, Jedi Luke.

JKL is not a real booster, just strong/best synergy
unlike CAT, Maul, and Ben who were directly made for certain parts of their GL kits.

not the best examples but JKL would probably be "equivalent" to royal Guard in a LV team, Ahsoka (young) in a JMK team, and probably Cal for the Rey team.

If people remember the old “SEE Definitely Needs a Buff!” thread… yeah. Honestly I think he has too many issues with his kit that a buff, or at least a touchup, would be needed in addition to a booster.

He specifically has anti-synergy against certain tags (mostly Light Side, but also Jedi and Rebel) - which is another way of saying parts of his kit don’t activate unless facing specific teams. That’s pretty rare for other GLs, but SEE has it everywhere.

Once you use his Ult, you need another turn to actually instakill anyone you Linked, and you end up losing the functionality of his pre-Ult abilities (mostly Protection recovery and Speed Up, and the chance to reapply Decieved vs DS teams - there’s more but the rest is generally outshined by instakill potential). And Linked doesn’t work against a solo enemy, at all.

And even just design-wise, some things are weirdly unsynergistic. SEE charges his Ult only by having the enemy use abilities, which generally you don’t want happening and Decieved partially stops from happening (counters). His Lead and any hope of a cleanse depends on Sith allies dying which you generally want to avoid for banners/stars/etc. His abilities add team and self-survivability but really not much damage output until Ult. There really isn’t good synergy with specific Sith units - just anti-synergy stopping Sion’s revives. He had a specific clause put into his Lead to try and gain TM to stop Troopers from walking all over him but Troopers can just… Daze him.


I’m sure you could do something similar for other GLs, but I feel like any flaws they have could get covered by a booster pretty easily, i.e. a SLKR booster removing a little TM from the team to trigger the boost to Max Health/Prot so gaining TM doesn’t hurt so much. But SEE… I don’t even know where you start. Decieving all enemies at the start of the encounter? Cleanses? Something nearly identical to Wat/Armorer buffs?

Remember one of SEE’s old Datacrons set his Ult at 80% when in a full Sith team and gave him a bonus turn once he used it, which apparently was meant to be playable against.

Also whatever he does, Allegiant General Pryde would make a good character for a booster.

OK, so the major issues that need to be fixed with SEE:

- Team Survivability (CG has created a game where survival matters, but SEE breaks this)
- Ultimate charge (SEE's ult charge is slow, and entirely dependant on your opponent taking turns. Ineffective when facing a single opponent)
- Slow (To help SEE survive he is generally modded for health, rather than speed)
- Weak (To help SEE survive he is generally modded for health, rather than offence. Weak against DS teams)
- Can get tripped up with debuffs (ability block and healing immunity are killers - one of many reasons Wat helps)

I can't promise that's all the issues, but those are the big ones (as helpfully pointed out above).

The question becomes, how can you fix these, or mitigate them, with a lifter? A rework would be nice, but a lifter is a more likely solution...

My best hope would be for some sort of lifter that replaces a whole team. Not a singular character, but a Chorus. My personal wish is for The Sith Eternal (TSE - that legion of Wraith-like beings surrounding SEE in his chamber on Exegol) that would be weak (no damage output) but help feed Ult charge to SEE. Team survivability matters less, since you can't have anyone else on that team. And TSE could have a mechanic where they take on the debuffs that might be applied to SEE - maybe that's how they feed him Power (to be more offensive), or Ult charge. Or those are a basic and a special, so you choose whether to remove debuffs from SEE, or feed Ult charge.

Do you guys not have Savage? Traya?

I think the larger issue with SEE is that no one wants to put the good Sith with him. Can't complain that he underperforms with the leftover scraps he's usually given. How would a team of Rey, Rose, Holdo, vets perform?

Excluded Aphra because her DC was stupid OP.


SEE with Malak stops Wampa. Add Savage, and you stop many other counters. Add Traya, and it may be GL only (with the exception of Reva).

To perform at a high level, all the other GLs require you to use toons that are useful on other teams. But no one ever wants to give SEE any toys. I also don't, but that's because he's so versatile on offense, and Traya+Savage is already crazy good on defense.

So the issue isn't so much that SEE needs a lifter as it is that SEE's lifters are so good that they don't need him XD

Looking back, I think you can also safetly say SEE is the only GL that has no units that were made for him.

Rey has the Heros and now Ben.
SLKR has Hux and ST.
JML has JKL.
JMK has CAT.
LV has Maul and arguably RG or 9S.
Jabba has basically his entire team, and also Gam Guard.

SEE has… nothing. Even the Kit Reveal was basically just “use Tanks, maybe even Sith ones”.

"Hev_Daman;c-2426641" wrote:

- Team Survivability (CG has created a game where survival matters, but SEE breaks this)

I would say that's the issue with the first 3 Darkside GLs. none offer good whole team survivability, unlike the light side and jabba.

Rey has damage immunity and reduces her team's damage during her ult to 1 damage. SLKR makes himself immune only, and a few of his units gives bonus TM with lowers his team's max health.

SEE prevents Sith allies from reviving, has to be in the lead to really work well, and most Sith have no real ways to heal well. JML has Jolee who can revive all Jedi, can work under Bastilla lead to make some encounters harder for the enemy, or work under others to do different things, and have units like Shaak ti and Hoda who can heal everyone.

LV only real heal is Royal Guard passive and his special with don't help a lot compared to Rey, JML, and especially JMK, he cant avoid tanks and can get stuck behind them, and his initial damage output is pretty low until he gets 1-2 Ults out which also relies on his allies being alive to help charge him up better. JMK, on the other hand, has an ult that does massive healing, gives damage immunity to allies who need it, has the savior mechanic to save a unit, and can ignore taunt and lets allies ignore taunt with his ult (helping them survive by killing the bigger threats).

OK, so the major issues that need to be fixed with SEE:

- Team Survivability (CG has created a game where survival matters, but SEE breaks this)
- Ultimate charge (SEE's ult charge is slow, and entirely dependant on your opponent taking turns. Ineffective when facing a single opponent)
- Slow (To help SEE survive he is generally modded for health, rather than speed)
- Weak (To help SEE survive he is generally modded for health, rather than offence. Weak against DS teams)
- Can get tripped up with debuffs (ability block and healing immunity are killers - one of many reasons Wat helps)

So here's my thinking:
Team Survivability + Ult Charge + Slow + Can be tripped up by debuffs
I actually don't mind a team that's throw-away. Most aren't, some are. Add to the healing benefits of a Sith ally dying this clause:

When a Sith ally is defeated, SEE gains 30% Ultimate charge, cleanses all debuffs, and takes a bonus turn/gains +50% TM/Gains SpeedUP for 2 turns which can neither be copied nor prevented nor dispelled.

This is real synergy with his kit that keeps you from killing him first. It doesn't fix survivability, but I don't think it has to since it guarantees that SEE gets his Ult before you wipe the floor with him. It doesn't cure his speed, but I don't think that needs to be cured either. Note that if you're cleansing all debuffs, Daze & Shock won't prevent his TM gain.

Ult Charge
First, allow a single enemy to be FateLinked. I know, I know, that makes no sense, but this is for game purposes, not story purposes, and if we wanted to we could create a nicely dressed up rationalization like their fate is being linked to a nearby microbe or to the force itself or whatever.
Then add this text to his Ult:

If there is no more than 1 enemy and that enemy is fate linked, any Ult charge they would normally gain goes to SEE instead, and that enemy earns no Ult charge.

Now you have a way to gain Ult charge vs. solo squads -- against non-GLs like solo Wampa take Sith allies that you want to die, and against solo GLs you can run solo SEE (although solo-SEE vs. Solo JML would be pretty funny).

Survivability + Weak
Add this clause to POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!:

If no enemy leader ability is active or the enemy leader is defeated or there is only one active enemy, all allies recover protection equal to damage dealt, then SEE gains +20% Offense until the end of battle (cumulative, max +200%) and +80% Offense until the end of the encounter (cumulative, max +400%). When only a single enemy is active and that enemy is fate linked, this ability cannot instantly defeat enemies. Instead, reduce the cooldown of this ability by 1 per active ally and one per enemy with Shock every time an enemy begins its turn.

Can be tripped up by debuffs
SEE gains +150% Tenacity. For each active enemy reduce this bonus by 30% (minimum 0%).


Ult Functionality + Slow
Change the sentence, "If SEE is the leader, all other Dark Side allies gain mastery equal to their current mastery until the end of battle," to read:

If SEE is the leader, all Sith allies gain Stealth, Retribution, SpeedUP, and Instant Defeat Immunity for 2 turns (these buffs cannot be copied, prevented or dispelled) and then regain those buffs at the start of each subsequent encounter, and all other Dark Side allies gain mastery equal to their current mastery until the end of battle.

You may also want to add to the Ult ability:

If the enemy leader is defeated or a Jedi when I Am All The Sith is activated, take a bonus turn.

These buffs would primarily be of benefit vs. Imperial Troopers and solo enemies (SLKR and Wampa), but they wouldn't be useless vs other teams. They would have to be tested to see if they accidentally overpower him, but I think this is a measured change to his kit that makes him more powerful in reasonable ways. Conceivably some of these abilities could actually be placed on an ally with SEE synergy (like a SEE Cultist lifter unit). I'm thinking particularly the Tenacity bonus could be something like Bastila Shan's ability or Mara Jade's ability where it affects herself and the leader but only if the leader meets specific requirements, in this case it would be something like:

If SEE is the leader, SEE Cultist and SEE each gain +150% tenacity, reduced by 30% per active enemy (minimum 0%).

In fact, if you had to use a lifter unit to gain the ability, I would be fine with a grant of +150% defense as well (also reduced by 30% per active enemy. Depending on how powerful the rest of the kit is, you could reduce the bonus by 20% per active enemy instead.

Theorizing more about a SEE Cultist, let's imagine just a couple of abilities that would dovetail with the kit changes above:
1: SEE Cultist is a tank with pre-taunt when SEE is the leader and who gains +5% Offense (max +200%) until defeated or until end of battle whenever SEE takes damage on an Enemy's turn. Imagine a berserker throwing themselves at the enemy to protect their leader is what I'm thinking.
2: While SEE is active, if any other Sith ally is defeated, SEE Cultist is revived with 70% Health and 70% Protection. This revive cannot be prevented.
3: While SEE cultist is active, SEE and SEE Cultist gain +150% Tenacity and +150% defense, reduced by 20% per active enemy. When SEE Cultist is defeated, SEE gains +100% Tenacity and +100% Defense.
4: If SEE uses I Am All The Sith while SEE Cultist is active, SEE cultist against +100% Max Health, +100% Max Protection and Taunt until the end of battle (this taunt cannot be copied, prevented or dispelled).
5: When SEE uses an ability on his turn while targeting a Deceived enemy, SEE Cultist assists, then grants Stealth to a random other Sith ally that does not have it.

I don't know, what do people think?