OK, so first off:1. Ben is a Chromium-only character, with high rarity. So at a minimum, you would expect his toolkit to be fully functioning, and make sense.2. Statwise, he is fairly powerful, with some of the best relative stat gain numbers in the game.3. Talking about his gear is fairly irrelevant, although he has far too much Special damage itemized onto his gear when he does none. Otherwise, his gear grants him fairly high health, decent armor, and decent damage.The real sticking point with him is his 4th ability, If You Strike Me Down.There are basically 2 points to this:1. If your team is defending (AI controlled), the player controlled team is VERY unlikely to focus Ben since his nerf on his second ability. His Potency is not impressive, and you generally will be able to either Resist the debuffs via Tenacity/Yoda buff, or simply wait out a couple of turns as Offense Down goes away. Either way, there is no need to focus Ben, as you can't kill him 1st turn, there are more important targets anyways, and by the time he debuffs again 5 turns later, someone already won.2. If the you are facing the AI, the AI is programmed to generally ignore high health targets with evasion and focus on soft targets, like Rey/Leia/QGJ/FOTP etc. so the likelihood of Ben dying and granting those shiny bonuses to anyone is again slim to none.So overall, the chance of this ability actually doing ANYTHING is zero, and works against his Tank role. The other team will actually AVOID trying to hit him, since he has EVA up, 18k HP, high armor, and isn't really that threatening.He needs a fix. Either un-nerf his Mind Tricks, and make him more of a consistent annoyance/threat requiring a kill, or change IYSMD to actually provide some sort of benefit (Taunting for 2 turns when a character drops below 30% health would be very effective)

I am sorry but I see no issue with old Ben at all. Not all toons should be good defenders. Some should be good attackers, some good defenders, some both good at both but not great in either.Leia is also a bad defender. She stealths 1st turn. Today's meta that can easily be the difference in a win or lose.A team of qgj (lead), Yoda, Rey, anakin, old Ben is devastating. All will go before you except old Ben unless your running a speed leader toon. Even if you drop Rey and Yoda ( the 2 lowest health), old Ben does his mind trick and now it's hard to drop the other 2 before they drop you. By the time his debuffs wear off the game will be decided.I have a person in my arena bracket that runs this team, and more than once mind trick was the deciding factor in the fight.

"Breetai;132926" wrote:I am sorry but I see no issue with old Ben at all. Not all toons should be good defenders. Some should be good attackers, some good defenders, some both good at both but not great in either.Leia is also a bad defender. She stealths 1st turn. Today's meta that can easily be the difference in a win or lose.A team of qgj (lead), Yoda, Rey, anakin, old Ben is devastating. All will go before you except old Ben unless your running a speed leader toon. Even if you drop Rey and Yoda ( the 2 lowest health), old Ben does his mind trick and now it's hard to drop the other 2 before they drop you. By the time his debuffs wear off the game will be decided.I have a person in my arena bracket that runs this team, and more than once mind trick was the deciding factor in the fight.Ask yourself this: Have you ever worried about killing him first? Have you ever SEEN him killed first?So then what is the point of that 4th ability? With Yoda, you can easily counter Ben (or any debuff character) for your first 2 turns. A properly used Yoda completely destroys any Ben viability, and makes him pointless. He just sits there all match and autos, while you kill off the other 4 characters on his team.Even without Yoda, anything about 50% Tenacity on a character makes it hit-or-miss. He will almost never hit Sidious with Mind Tricks because of the Dodge.Which leaves him with a Leader ability you probably won't use, and a passive that will never be used since he becomes very ignorable.And since you can SEE him in Arena before you fight him now, you can literally plan around him.

So what your saying Is old Ben has a counter in Yoda. That's great. Because a lot have counters as should be. So Yoda as lead makes mind trick worthless. But if the other team is running the one I said before than you have no speed buff and qgj, Rey, anakin, and Yoda has already had turns and atleast 2 toons are dead. If you are doing yodas buff first to prevent old bens mind trick, well you missing the chance of gaining forsight or chance at -40% turn meter on someone, and now it's back to who is fastest wins, yet your fastest one already went and did no dmg. Again 2 of your toons are dead thanks to qgj, Rey, Yoda, anakin. If you don't buff, or use Yoda as lead, then bens 4th skill keeps you from burning him down, and you need to burn down the other team before mind trick.Yes I know all this because everyone in my bracket us running him and I have to deal with him in every battle.As you can see. Old Ben DOES in fact dicatate the battle in more ways than one. I'm guessing your the only one that runs old Ben in your bracket? Or you not in your top 50. Everyone in top 20 in my bracket runs old Ben except for 4, and I'm one of the 4. I do have him at 6* and lvl 70. Just I'm trying to come up with totally different teams than others to win, but in the end I switch back to my main team to make sure I finish in top 3 at rewards time.

Valid points here. But if I made a list of the top 20 characters needing a buff in this game, Old Ben wouldn't even make the list of guys I cut because they didn't make it. There are at least a dozen characters in this game that are literally never used by anyone. Old Ben may not be perfect, but he's a lot closer to perfect than 3/4 of what's out there.

"Qeltar;133035" wrote:Valid points here. But if I made a list of the top 20 characters needing a buff in this game, Old Ben wouldn't even make the list of guys I cut because they didn't make it. There are at least a dozen characters in this game that are literally never used by anyone. Old Ben may not be perfect, but he's a lot closer to perfect than 3/4 of what's out there.Oh, I absolutely agree there are a lot of other characters in need of a buff along the power curve. But I can't think of any other ability off the top of my head that is more useless than IYSMD. Weak attacks, or ones that only have a % chance to proc, or that only work against certain classes, all at least have a niche.IYSMD forces you to not focus Ben, where you would want him to be focused. This one ability literally negates the rest of his character focus; You don't want (or need) to pressure him as much because of the Mind Tricks nerf, he isn't particularly threatening beyond decent damage, and a high health pool, and he doesn't move quickly enough to prevent 1st round nukes from backing in half your teams' face.

Feedback on Old Ben (Obi-Wan Kenobi)

Dranninn
9 years ago
I am sorry but I see no issue with old Ben at all. Not all toons should be good defenders. Some should be good attackers, some good defenders, some both good at both but not great in either.

Leia is also a bad defender. She stealths 1st turn. Today's meta that can easily be the difference in a win or lose.

A team of qgj (lead), Yoda, Rey, anakin, old Ben is devastating. All will go before you except old Ben unless your running a speed leader toon. Even if you drop Rey and Yoda ( the 2 lowest health), old Ben does his mind trick and now it's hard to drop the other 2 before they drop you. By the time his debuffs wear off the game will be decided.

I have a person in my arena bracket that runs this team, and more than once mind trick was the deciding factor in the fight.
Aluxender
9 years ago
"Breetai;132926" wrote:
I am sorry but I see no issue with old Ben at all. Not all toons should be good defenders. Some should be good attackers, some good defenders, some both good at both but not great in either.

Leia is also a bad defender. She stealths 1st turn. Today's meta that can easily be the difference in a win or lose.

A team of qgj (lead), Yoda, Rey, anakin, old Ben is devastating. All will go before you except old Ben unless your running a speed leader toon. Even if you drop Rey and Yoda ( the 2 lowest health), old Ben does his mind trick and now it's hard to drop the other 2 before they drop you. By the time his debuffs wear off the game will be decided.

I have a person in my arena bracket that runs this team, and more than once mind trick was the deciding factor in the fight.

Ask yourself this: Have you ever worried about killing him first? Have you ever SEEN him killed first?

So then what is the point of that 4th ability?

With Yoda, you can easily counter Ben (or any debuff character) for your first 2 turns. A properly used Yoda completely destroys any Ben viability, and makes him pointless. He just sits there all match and autos, while you kill off the other 4 characters on his team.

Even without Yoda, anything about 50% Tenacity on a character makes it hit-or-miss. He will almost never hit Sidious with Mind Tricks because of the Dodge.

Which leaves him with a Leader ability you probably won't use, and a passive that will never be used since he becomes very ignorable.

And since you can SEE him in Arena before you fight him now, you can literally plan around him.
Dranninn
9 years ago
So what your saying Is old Ben has a counter in Yoda. That's great. Because a lot have counters as should be.

So Yoda as lead makes mind trick worthless. But if the other team is running the one I said before than you have no speed buff and qgj, Rey, anakin, and Yoda has already had turns and atleast 2 toons are dead. If you are doing yodas buff first to prevent old bens mind trick, well you missing the chance of gaining forsight or chance at -40% turn meter on someone, and now it's back to who is fastest wins, yet your fastest one already went and did no dmg. Again 2 of your toons are dead thanks to qgj, Rey, Yoda, anakin. If you don't buff, or use Yoda as lead, then bens 4th skill keeps you from burning him down, and you need to burn down the other team before mind trick.

Yes I know all this because everyone in my bracket us running him and I have to deal with him in every battle.

As you can see. Old Ben DOES in fact dicatate the battle in more ways than one.

I'm guessing your the only one that runs old Ben in your bracket? Or you not in your top 50. Everyone in top 20 in my bracket runs old Ben except for 4, and I'm one of the 4. I do have him at 6* and lvl 70. Just I'm trying to come up with totally different teams than others to win, but in the end I switch back to my main team to make sure I finish in top 3 at rewards time.
Qeltarr
9 years ago
Valid points here. But if I made a list of the top 20 characters needing a buff in this game, Old Ben wouldn't even make the list of guys I cut because they didn't make it. There are at least a dozen characters in this game that are literally never used by anyone. Old Ben may not be perfect, but he's a lot closer to perfect than 3/4 of what's out there.
Aluxender
9 years ago
"Qeltar;133035" wrote:
Valid points here. But if I made a list of the top 20 characters needing a buff in this game, Old Ben wouldn't even make the list of guys I cut because they didn't make it. There are at least a dozen characters in this game that are literally never used by anyone. Old Ben may not be perfect, but he's a lot closer to perfect than 3/4 of what's out there.

Oh, I absolutely agree there are a lot of other characters in need of a buff along the power curve. But I can't think of any other ability off the top of my head that is more useless than IYSMD. Weak attacks, or ones that only have a % chance to proc, or that only work against certain classes, all at least have a niche.

IYSMD forces you to not focus Ben, where you would want him to be focused. This one ability literally negates the rest of his character focus; You don't want (or need) to pressure him as much because of the Mind Tricks nerf, he isn't particularly threatening beyond decent damage, and a high health pool, and he doesn't move quickly enough to prevent 1st round nukes from backing in half your teams' face.
AlphaOmega1214
9 years ago
I got old Ben recently and already level 70 4* gear 8 with level 7 leader ability. I love him as leader but somehow the leader ability doesn't give turn meter anymore on dodge and my team barely dodge. It worked perfectly fine at level 5. They need to revisit old Ben as a whole. I build a envasion around him and now his leader ability does not work.
holzet
9 years ago
Ben (with all those Yodas jumping around) is actually a hindernis in arena, since his only use is his mind-trick, and this is useless against this yoda skill.

So IMO the LAST in-arena-usable chromium exclusive character is going to join the others on the shelf... So no benefit in arena, just Fun to have and play. I think a lot of "customers" may think: why try to get chromium exclusive characters - when they all not relevant...
Qeltarr
9 years ago
@AlphaOmega1214 - They found a bug with Dooku's leader ability, which is evasion-based, so perhaps when that is fixed it will help with Old Ben's as well.
@Aluxendr - Upon further reflection, I no longer think Ben belongs on the "buff list" at all. He has an incredibly good overall package with many strengths: very high health, best armor in the game (which will eventually mean something), a very useful main attack and also useful leader ability (when it is fixed).
I think you're underestimating the impact that his special and unique have on a player. They are designed to create a tension: if you leave him alone he uses his special and you are screwed, but if you try to kill him, he's tanky as hell with huge health and evasion, and even if you succeed, well, you are once again screwed.
So you have to orient the entire fight around dealing with Old Ben. You have to tie him up without killing him, or run some way of countering his special. When I fight an Old Ben team, I have to basically dedicate Dooku to constantly attacking him to stun and/or ability block him, but I can't attack too much or he dies and I am screwed. This means other Jedi are free to act without Dooku bothering them. It also completely changes how I approach a fight. And if you don't run Dooku, it's even harder.
Yoda is a partial counter, but it only lasts 2 turns and the cooldown is so long it is a once-per-fight only. And since you have to keep Ben around to the end, you run a real chance that he Mind Tricks you anyway if you stop CCing him.
I think he's not only fine, he's more than fine. Mind Tricks is one of the most powerful specials in the game. IYSMD is the most powerful on-death effect in the game by a very wide margin. And both are tacked on to a lot of other good stuff. Ben is in the top 20 most powerful characters in the game, if not top 10.
holzet
9 years ago
Exactly.
The two rarest and most difficult characters to star up are (My experiance - results may differ) Ben and the most difficult Lando.

So they kind of should be in top 5. But they are top 10-20 so put them on the shelf in arena. They are not relevant... But fun and cool.

It's actually the only game I know where "rarity" of chars isn't proportional to strength.
Aluxender
9 years ago
"Qeltar;134901" wrote:
@AlphaOmega1214 - They found a bug with Dooku's leader ability, which is evasion-based, so perhaps when that is fixed it will help with Old Ben's as well.
@Aluxendr - Upon further reflection, I no longer think Ben belongs on the "buff list" at all. He has an incredibly good overall package with many strengths: very high health, best armor in the game (which will eventually mean something), a very useful main attack and also useful leader ability (when it is fixed).
I think you're underestimating the impact that his special and unique have on a player. They are designed to create a tension: if you leave him alone he uses his special and you are screwed, but if you try to kill him, he's tanky as hell with huge health and evasion, and even if you succeed, well, you are once again screwed.
So you have to orient the entire fight around dealing with Old Ben. You have to tie him up without killing him, or run some way of countering his special. When I fight an Old Ben team, I have to basically dedicate Dooku to constantly attacking him to stun and/or ability block him, but I can't attack too much or he dies and I am screwed. This means other Jedi are free to act without Dooku bothering them. It also completely changes how I approach a fight. And if you don't run Dooku, it's even harder.
Yoda is a partial counter, but it only lasts 2 turns and the cooldown is so long it is a once-per-fight only. And since you have to keep Ben around to the end, you run a real chance that he Mind Tricks you anyway if you stop CCing him.
I think he's not only fine, he's more than fine. Mind Tricks is one of the most powerful specials in the game. IYSMD is the most powerful on-death effect in the game by a very wide margin. And both are tacked on to a lot of other good stuff. Ben is in the top 20 most powerful characters in the game, if not top 10.

@Qeltar
That's the thing though. Mind Tricks looks good, but if you own him or have any experience dealing with him, you realize that whoever you are facing has a character that is going to move very slowly, does one AoE debuff with only 50% Potency (Which isn't horrible, but anyone with over 30% Tenacity has a decent chance to resist debuff application), and then takes 5 turns at his snail pace to reapply it. If you have a Sidious, he isn't going to get debuffed.

With the fix to speed, he becomes pointless. The other team just needs to bring 3-4 high speed characters (Rey, GS, Dooku, Leia....etc take your pick, you know em as well as I do), and 2 of your characters are dead first turn. You probably have one damage dealer left, maybe 2, but even if Ben turns his trick and somehow O Down/blocks the entire other team, you will still lose.

I'm working on a different team setup right now, just so I can keep using him (because I really do like him) but for almost any team, he is currently a poor choice. When the turn meter thing was still bugged, and speed leaders weren't a thing, you could chain him pretty well with Poe. But with the recent changes, the strongest Chromium character is simply no longer a contender.