Floating an extra zeta, been able to get 8% on p1 heroic and was gonna start saving for the Yoda team but I'm months off of that. Is self preservation worth it for sith raid ? My r2 tends to die first hoping it will help smoking bb8 .

"Woodroward;c-1585313" wrote:"Vendi1983;c-1585305" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1585281" wrote:"leef;c-1585025" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down. I don’t think this is correct. It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.You don't take damage for attacking him with defence down. If you attack with defence down using A BASIC, Nihilus regenerates protection. Hence why tenacity and/or cleanse are key against Nihilus.You need to reread his abilities. He regenerates protection AND you take damage. No need to belabor the basics part, I started by saying that and shortened it, it's in the quotes.To be fair, you take damage to protection, which is basically irrelevant since he ignores protection anyway. Only place this would be relevant is in P4 since there's also Sion and BOW present.

"leef;c-1585433" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1585281" wrote:"leef;c-1585025" wrote:"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down. I don’t think this is correct. It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.I should have specified, i meant not taking damage while using a basic with def down. I don’t think that’s true. I’m not sure if the cleanse stops nihilus from gaining protection either, but that’s irrelevant, as you said, due to the healing immu debuff being present the entire run. I’m not a 100% sure though.Regardless of all of that, its a useless zeta for p1 JTR STR. Even if you take damage from using basic whilst debuffed with def down, its vs your protection so it doesnt matter anyway. De def down only lasts 1 turn, so even without the cleanse on crit the debuff would have expired anyway and it doesnt prevent the def down from being re-applied. Having to use a basic when you have def down doesnt happen very often, so even if not taking prot dmg is important to you (assuming you’re correct), its still a situational zeta at best. Also, if you’re taking dmg from the adds you’re doing it wrong and nihilus his basic ignores protection aswell.Great zeta, but doesnt add anything in for a Jtr team in p1 STR.For reference:Everyone's allowed to have their own point of view, but sometimes that point of view is wrong. Unfortunately that's you here. R2's zeta stops him from gaining bonus protection when you attack him while you have defense down. Healing immunity does not. I've landed healing immunity on him with my droids and watched him gaining bonus protection anyway. Healing immunity ONLY stops the bonus protection at the start of his turn. ONLY not having defense down when you attack him with a basic prevents him gaining it on your turn. There's no debate about it, R2's zeta will improve your offense against Nihilus. Trying to say having the adds alive to hit you means you're doing it wrong is a deflection away from the point that there are still attacks that hit protection, so it isn't worthless, so R2's zeta absolutely gives your team more survivability... with adds. So let's not get elitist on strat up in here. I prefer to kill the adds with R2's AoE alone.So, and this isn't an opinon, R2's zeta GUARANTEES improved survivability and increased offense for your team against Nihilus in P1.

used a basic with def down 3 times total in this vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1a5hqTKYUI&t=430sused a basic with def down 5 times total in this vid.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ebER5Sm1ok&t=134sProbably too "elitist" for you, the selfproclaimed teacher (wich was a nice touch), but it does show how little R2's zeta comes into play, even if it does prevent the negative effects of using basics with def down. I'm still going to test that when i get the chance, i've no problem conceding if it turns out you were correct about that.JTR's lead CD reduction is actually way better than you give it credit for, it pairs really well with bb8. The TMR is also way better than you give it credit for, especially combined with the CD reduction. Saying R2's zeta is the most important/effective zeta on the whole team for p1 is just laughable. It's extra funny because you're so arrogant ;)

No idea where this thread took off too...but found the info for original question on reddit so feel free to virtually joust it out, most attention one of my posts has ever gotten lol.

Just chiming in, JTR lead zeta definitely better for P1 than either of R2's. Though both of R2's are great. The bit I'm not understand is how its preventing him regaining protection. So a character with defence down crits and cleanses, but shouldn't the protection regain happen after the hit but before the cleanse? Or is it crits from specials remove defence down so its safe to hit him with a basic?Personally, my zeta order would be: JTR lead, R2 NC, BB8 RWTP, JTR Virtuous Protector, BB8 Self Presevation or R2 Combat Analysis, then the other one, then JTR Insight. That's if I was to zeta them now with P1 in mind, already had both R2's ages ago.

Self preservation zeta for sith raid

Sneekypete00
7 years ago
I've got all 3 jtr and both r2 Zetas, was looking to either do kanan for p2 or bb8 for an easier or less stressful p1 lol. I'm too far off on the jedi Yoda team I can start saving for that after.
emvedebe
7 years ago
"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:

Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.

I don’t think this is correct.
tvsfrink
7 years ago
I love it too, definitely less stressful. But I'm only doing T5.
Sneekypete00
7 years ago
Read up found some info on reddit. Apparently people have better success with bb8 zeta less restarts and better recovery from mistakes. I bit the bullet and did it I'll see how it works in about 2 days
almightywood
7 years ago
"leef;c-1585025" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:

Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.

I don’t think this is correct.

It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.

While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.
Da_Bauers
New Spectator
7 years ago
"Woodroward;c-1585281" wrote:
"leef;c-1585025" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:

Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.

I don’t think this is correct.

It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.

While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.

You don't take damage for attacking him with defence down. If you attack with defence down using A BASIC, Nihilus regenerates protection. Hence why tenacity and/or cleanse are key against Nihilus.
almightywood
7 years ago
"Vendi1983;c-1585305" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1585281" wrote:
"leef;c-1585025" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:

Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.

I don’t think this is correct.

It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.

While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.

You don't take damage for attacking him with defence down. If you attack with defence down using A BASIC, Nihilus regenerates protection. Hence why tenacity and/or cleanse are key against Nihilus.

You need to reread his abilities. He regenerates protection AND you take damage. No need to belabor the basics part, I started by saying that and shortened it, it's in the quotes.
almightywood
7 years ago
"TVF;c-1585329" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1585313" wrote:
"Vendi1983;c-1585305" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1585281" wrote:
"leef;c-1585025" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:

Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.

I don’t think this is correct.

It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.

While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.

You don't take damage for attacking him with defence down. If you attack with defence down using A BASIC, Nihilus regenerates protection. Hence why tenacity and/or cleanse are key against Nihilus.

You need to reread his abilities. He regenerates protection AND you take damage. No need to belabor the basics part, I started by saying that and shortened it, it's in the quotes.

To be fair, you take damage to protection, which is basically irrelevant since he ignores protection anyway. Only place this would be relevant is in P4 since there's also Sion and BOW present.

It's less important in this phase for sure, but I wouldn't call it irrelevant. It still protects you from his basic and the adds. If those attacks were going right into your health bar right away this phase would be even tougher than it already is.
tvsfrink
7 years ago
"Woodroward;c-1585342" wrote:
"TVF;c-1585329" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1585313" wrote:
"Vendi1983;c-1585305" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1585281" wrote:
"leef;c-1585025" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:

Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.

I don’t think this is correct.

It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.

While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.

You don't take damage for attacking him with defence down. If you attack with defence down using A BASIC, Nihilus regenerates protection. Hence why tenacity and/or cleanse are key against Nihilus.

You need to reread his abilities. He regenerates protection AND you take damage. No need to belabor the basics part, I started by saying that and shortened it, it's in the quotes.

To be fair, you take damage to protection, which is basically irrelevant since he ignores protection anyway. Only place this would be relevant is in P4 since there's also Sion and BOW present.

It's less important in this phase for sure, but I wouldn't call it irrelevant. It still protects you from his basic and the adds. If those attacks were going right into your health bar right away this phase would be even tougher than it already is.

His basic doesn't ignore protection? It does so little damage I've never really noticed, and the adds really aren't an issue either. I've never come close to dying because of either of those issues. It's always either a mistimed annihilate or the AOE.

Granted I'm doing T5. Dunno about higher tiers. And with that said it's still a great zeta, just not sure I think the protection loss matters at all in P1.
emvedebe
7 years ago
"Woodroward;c-1585281" wrote:
"leef;c-1585025" wrote:
"Woodroward;c-1584936" wrote:

Cleansing as you crit means Nihilus never gets bonus protection and your team doesn't routinely take massive damage for attacking with basics whilst having defense down.

I don’t think this is correct.

It is though. Nihilus never gets bonus protection from JTR teams due to A: healing immunity preventing it at the start of his turns, and B: R2's auto cleanse preventing it when your characters attack him.

While you can still take damage for attacking him with defense down on you, it isn't routine because it'll never happen 2 turns in a row.

I should have specified, i meant not taking damage while using a basic with def down. I don’t think that’s true. I’m not sure if the cleanse stops nihilus from gaining protection either, but that’s irrelevant, as you said, due to the healing immu debuff being present the entire run. I’m not a 100% sure though.
Regardless of all of that, its a useless zeta for p1 JTR STR. Even if you take damage from using basic whilst debuffed with def down, its vs your protection so it doesnt matter anyway. De def down only lasts 1 turn, so even without the cleanse on crit the debuff would have expired anyway and it doesnt prevent the def down from being re-applied. Having to use a basic when you have def down doesnt happen very often, so even if not taking prot dmg is important to you (assuming you’re correct), its still a situational zeta at best. Also, if you’re taking dmg from the adds you’re doing it wrong and nihilus his basic ignores protection aswell.
Great zeta, but doesnt add anything in for a Jtr team in p1 STR.
For reference: