Thermal Detonator Rework

"MegatronG1;c-1162397" wrote:
How about Thermal Detonators deal damage on impact and DoT damage when the enemy takes a turn. When the Thermal Detonator is cleansed/detonated deals AoE damage to all enemies.

If they deal damage in impact how does one cleanse it?

"Ariella;c-1161540" wrote:
Just having them explode at the end of the turn on which they were applied would be a big bonus... some battles are so short they never get to explode.

@ariella I feel like where the detonators can shine is having a big payoff if they do explode. A team that gets beat before they explode is fine by me but there could be that risk reward where if a detonator goes off it turns the tables

"LRMoser;c-1163011" wrote:

"Ariella;c-1161540" wrote:
Just having them explode at the end of the turn on which they were applied would be a big bonus... some battles are so short they never get to explode.

@ariella I feel like where the detonators can shine is having a big payoff if they do explode. A team that gets beat before they explode is fine by me but there could be that risk reward where if a detonator goes off it turns the tables

While this would be nice, toons that use this as a basic attack would need to be reworked for TDs to be that powerful.

I like a lot of what I have seen on this discussion. It has changed how I would like to see it work.

Detonators can be dodged but not resisted. They are not a debuff but their own unique thing (yellow instead of red). indicating that they cannot be cleansed. Because they can't be cleansed and that it is a TD. I think a good balance is that they don't do massive damage but they do do AOE damage. I would propose about 3K damage to all enemies with an additional 1K to main target. Once the TD goes off it will apply a different effect depending on the time it takes to detonate (a number could appear in the yellow box to tell how many turns are left) . The different effects would be remove all buffs on target for a 1 turn detonate, burning on a 2 turn detonate, stun on a 3 turn detonate, and deathmark on a 4 turn detonate. If a 4 turn detonator is forced to go off on turn 2 the turn 2 status effect would be in place.

I think this is a simple an effective way to give the TD's more bite. I think it will also have the following effects
1. Characters with high speed will set of their TD's faster. While this will not stop people from placing high speed mods on people but it may give a small amount of balance for whatever its worth (probably not much).
2. This opens up a new set of possible buff/debuff type things. Because TD's are not debuffs (lets just call them objects) it creates a new mechanic that can be developed.
3. It makes BH and Jawas more viable in the game.
4. It will provide interesting strategy decisions. Do I take out the character giving me TD's or go over a high DPS character?

Thermal detonators are almost good as is, other than being unable to be cleansed and some lackluster TD moves (I'm looking at you nute gunray) they are fine. You don't complain about damage over time not doing enough damage even though a single TD is turn for turn better than a couple of DoTs. The problem with Detonators aren't the detonators themselves, it's the characters they're given to.
Other then zam and jaws scavenger every TD character just tosses them and that's it. It's like if Vader just places a few DoTs and that was it, no culling blade, no reapplying, nothing and for a while that's why Vader was useless until palpatine and his zeta came along. Greedo for example has a small chance to gain a small amount of TM from using it. So yeah, TDs suck if you don't switch up your team for them, same as how a damage over time team would suck without Vader or boba fett to cash in on everything.

"PapiBlanco;c-1164126" wrote:
Thermal detonators are almost good as is, other than being unable to be cleansed and some lackluster TD moves (I'm looking at you nute gunray) they are fine. You don't complain about damage over time not doing enough damage even though a single TD is turn for turn better than a couple of DoTs. The problem with Detonators aren't the detonators themselves, it's the characters they're given to.
Other then zam and jaws scavenger every TD character just tosses them and that's it. It's like if Vader just places a few DoTs and that was it, no culling blade, no reapplying, nothing and for a while that's why Vader was useless until palpatine and his zeta came along. Greedo for example has a small chance to gain a small amount of TM from using it. So yeah, TDs suck if you don't switch up your team for them, same as how a damage over time team would suck without Vader or boba fett to cash in on everything.

@PapiBlanco I would respectfully disagree. DOT's design is to provide a little damage every turn. TD's provide a little damage after a few turns. While Vader did make DOT's more usable I am just suggesting (not complaining) a way to give the game more depth and strategy by changing TD's. Like you said most of the characters that give TD's they throw it and that is it. So, if that is the cause I think making them more impactful is important. You could add other abilities around them like Vader does with DOT's or attaching them to other abilities like DOT's but I think it is more interesting in making them a stand alone attack that after more time passes they become more impact. So Mob enforcer could have a 4 turn detonate that applies deathmark to primary target, then Greedo has a 1 turn detonate (because he puts them on all enemies) that will dispell any buffs on primary target, Jawa Scavanger unique could apply a 2 turn detonator that applies burning on primary target, Nute could have a 3 turn detonator that applies stun on primary target, and so on.

"LRMoser;d-119573" wrote:

4. Increase damage or have them do a % of of total health.

Wait what? That's already all they work, right?

I wholefully agree they need a rework (being resisted and able to be dispelled make them total crap, for a start); but I'm pretty sure they are already doing a % of total health as damage. Jawa Enginer detonator is around 25 or 30% I think, Zam and Greedo are 30% and Nute's a bit less. You can check the exact value on swgoh.gg

"Durango;c-1164994" wrote:

"LRMoser;d-119573" wrote:

4. Increase damage or have them do a % of of total health.

Wait what? That's already all they work, right?

I wholefully agree they need a rework (being resisted and able to be dispelled make them total ****, for a start); but I'm pretty sure they are already doing a % of total health as damage. Jawa Enginer detonator is around 25 or 30% I think, Zam and Greedo are 30% and Nute's a bit less. You can check the exact value on swgoh.gg

Yes it's already a % of Max Health. TD were designed before Protection was released, so it would be nice to rework and say "Percentage of Max Health and Protection". TD would be more interesting. And it should explode when it's either dispelled (we're not a bomb squad) or when a toon is using an ability which consumes status effects (Culling Blade, Execute ...).

"LRMoser;c-1164955" wrote:

"PapiBlanco;c-1164126" wrote:
Thermal detonators are almost good as is, other than being unable to be cleansed and some lackluster TD moves (I'm looking at you nute gunray) they are fine. You don't complain about damage over time not doing enough damage even though a single TD is turn for turn better than a couple of DoTs. The problem with Detonators aren't the detonators themselves, it's the characters they're given to.
Other then zam and jaws scavenger every TD character just tosses them and that's it. It's like if Vader just places a few DoTs and that was it, no culling blade, no reapplying, nothing and for a while that's why Vader was useless until palpatine and his zeta came along. Greedo for example has a small chance to gain a small amount of TM from using it. So yeah, TDs suck if you don't switch up your team for them, same as how a damage over time team would suck without Vader or boba fett to cash in on everything.

@PapiBlanco I would respectfully disagree. DOT's design is to provide a little damage every turn. TD's provide a little damage after a few turns. While Vader did make DOT's more usable I am just suggesting (not complaining) a way to give the game more depth and strategy by changing TD's. Like you said most of the characters that give TD's they throw it and that is it. So, if that is the cause I think making them more impactful is important. You could add other abilities around them like Vader does with DOT's or attaching them to other abilities like DOT's but I think it is more interesting in making them a stand alone attack that after more time passes they become more impact. So Mob enforcer could have a 4 turn detonate that applies deathmark to primary target, then Greedo has a 1 turn detonate (because he puts them on all enemies) that will dispell any buffs on primary target, Jawa Scavanger unique could apply a 2 turn detonator that applies burning on primary target, Nute could have a 3 turn detonator that applies stun on primary target, and so on.

But on a numbers standpoint they are basically the same, DoTs do 5% damage each turn and TD do 25-30 as @durango just mentioned. That means turn for turn they do the same amount of damage as 3 DoTs, and this isn't including kits of some characters which I will address lower. Now 3 DoTs is quite a bit, other than Vader and Sid I can't really think of anyone who throws down 3 DoTs in an AoE. This really isn't something to take lightly especially if there are characters who can counter or against a nihilus lead it becomes very useful.
You also mention the kits and for this I have two points. One is that adding additional effects would be confusing and wildly inconsistent. Every single effect behaves the same other than the duration no matter who applies it. Old bens and grand Mott Tarkins offense down both remove 50% offense, no character has an offense down that removes say 75% because when you see the symbol overhead you expect to know what it means and the values at a glance. The second thing you mentioned is that it there should be more uniques, kits, etc that should do more with this. While I'm always down for any additional variety (especially if it doesn't effect the balance of the game) it really isn't that bad for TD, zam is the obvious example as in a full scavenger squad she gets full TM for every one she shoots down. But also there is jaws scavenger who can pop them all at once plus has a chance to afflict debuffs with it AND applies them when allies get hurt. Also there's boba fetts leader ability that gives TM to all bounty hunters when one pops. Compare this to all the unique things about DoTs... Vaders zeta leader ability. I'm not counting execute and culling blade because not only could those be applied to TDs, but also any debuff at all. Assuming they are undispellable (which is the only buff mentioned that really makes sense) they're pretty sweet, at least in comparison to other damaging debuffs.

TL;DR, they do pretty sweet damage, giving additional effects would be cornfusing and unnecessary, and still more kit variety than other debuffs. All they really need is to not be able to be cleansed

Also like @BulYwif mentioned, I think it'd be pretty sweet if culling blade and execute triggered them like they do exposed.

Ps. Sorry for the word wall

I'll take any kind of buff for thermal dets....