lets be honest, SIMS 4 is a failure.

Ah, this is still going on? Well, I seem to not be quite so much in my irritated/despondent mood yesterday, so how about we just say we all have our favorites and when you say one version is the best it isn’t so much to look for agreement and just to be able to express your love. No need to argue about it. Sims is the Sims no matter the generation.

Anyway, I do agree that when compared to the previous versions Sims 4 is perhaps the worst version come to date. I think this mainly is due to how incomplete it was and in some ways still is when it came out. Notes of it at first being intended to be an online version also likely explains its bare bones beginning. It was an unfortunate extreme hit or miss experiment.

In turn, it feels like ever since its release EA has been constantly trying to provide what all the previous simmers love, but because their plan was so different originally, everything they have managed to produce are unfortunately just as lackluster because it is likely very rushed.

I feel that Sims 4 is something of a failure in regards to being a simulation game. As a tool to create and build, however… I find it is very strong. I unfortunately went into a tirade post elsewhere, but I still stand by my views… Sims 4 at best is EA testing the waters with what they hoped would be refreshing and new for the new generations. Their testing unfortunately just left many feeling empty and irritated because for the gains, so much was also lost.

In the end, what really keeps Sims 4 alive is the hardcore Sim fans. I am utterly impressed with how hard so many people have worked to produce things to keep the game interesting in terms of mods, challenges and cc. In some sense, that is great. Wow, Sims 4 really has helped simmers express and create incredible things… but the things they are making shouldn’t have to be made by the fans just to make the game more enjoyable. The game needs to be able to stand on its own.

@Player_jp5s5eav, well, I wanted to respond to last months posts, but I had some real-life stuff that prevented me from doing so.  So that is why I'm responding much later than everyone else.  

You do make a fair assessment of why the TS4 is the way it is.  I had heard that too about it being intended for an online game that didn't pan out.  But others have said it was supposed to be a mobile phone game.  I tend to believe that it was supposed to be online.  But that is speculation on my part. 

I do prefer TS4 for several reasons.  I love the multitasking, I prefer the toddlers and Vampires, I prefer CAS and Build/Buy layout in TS4, I think building is easier in TS4 , and  also, I prefer the graphics (I'm a very visual person, so this is more important to me than it is for some other people) .  But that said even with the outdated graphics of TS2, the gameplay makes up for that!🙌  This was not the case for me in TS3.  I think the open world was a good concept, but its emptiness is what made it boring to me.  And coming off of the phenomenal gameplay of TS2, I really felt the lacking gameplay in TS3.  I learned my lesson from TS3, and so I didn't expect its gameplay to exceed that of TS2, so I wasn't disappointed with it!  

I do prefer TS3's personality traits and the amount of them we can use on one Sim to be better than TS4's ! 😎   Most people go on and on and on about TS3's open world being its best feature 🤒, but I thought it was the personality system!🙂  (Not counting CASt because the pattern/color wheel in TS3 was a decorating feature and not a gameplay feature, but I do think that was the best thing about TS3, even if the CASt wheel bogged down my computer -- which was mostly because I couldn't stop creating patterns for it! 😃)

But the lagging, stoppages, load times, and crashes are what always made me angry when I played TS3.  I was always angry 😬 to the point that my husband kept telling me to stop playing the game if it upset me that much!  Never have that problem with TS4.🙌  I am normally a "more is more" kind of person, but with TS3 I learned that sometimes less can be more peaceful. 😇
Still, TS2 had the best combination of performance and gameplay! I was seriously addicted to that game in a way I haven't been with any other game before or since.🥳  I never expect that magic to happen again! 🤨

It is sad so many of us feel like the magic of the past will never be revived. I've admitted plenty of being the youngest child watching my eldest brother (It came out the year after he graduated high school.) playing the Sims from generation one to now. It is only now seeing some videos on youtube do I remember things I completely forgot about. I find myself envying him so much now.

Though for today's standards I can certainly see various aspects of the old not being as well accepted and of course mods still being produced. I saw you couldn't have them multitask, you couldn't even have them clean up a floor covered in a million baby bottles without having to order your sim to pick one up at a time to throw away... those little things, I thought, "Man, I'm glad Sims 4 isn't like that." In other cases, just the elasticity of the Sims in the past and the way the world actually functioned on its own without your direct input or your sim's... that was lovely.

I don't see generated sims in 4 doing things you'd have to orchestrate on your own out of the blue. Sims 2 player causally waiting for his sim to return from a rabbit hole exam in college. In the dorm two sims are suddenly brawling. Okay, pick the sim that looks coolest and cheer him on! Aw, man... he lost... Oh! Now my sim has returned. Dude, you missed something epic! (Don't worry, though, I recorded the whole thing.)

Then I see things in Sims 2 that again make me think, "Glad I don't have to wait for both these sims to have such high levels in friendship or romance as well as be in the optimum mood to be able to do this or that." or "My Sim has to make friends to get promoted?!?! What is wrong with you?!"

Learning about the Sims, experiencing Sims 4 and watching let's plays of previous versions... I sincerely hope EA takes a step back, actually looks at its legacy and is able to get the simulation aspect back into focus over the visual. Though I am grateful EA Sims look the way they do now. Sims 2 and even 3 could really creep me out. They sometimes still do. The ones in the Medieval looked pretty good, though. If they had expanded just a little further than how they looked there, I'd have been fine if Sims 4 CAS had not reached the level it has now.

Yeah, though... Look carefully at the core, The Sims 2000, then look at the fans. Look into the things the fans loved and hated throughout the generations. Some of the loves (CASt and open world - I never knew those since my bro was out of the house by then) obviously are not highly compatible for mainstream, so yeah, there will be some things that are not brought back. Those fall less under simulation game play, however, so I can understand the cuts there.

"We love making likes and dislikes, we like wants/whims that truly relate to the sim, we miss picking a few of their favorites, we loved story progression, we miss when sims can have actual consequences for their actions."

"We hate not being able to multitask, we hate how they drop used things on the ground or never put left over away, we hate not being able to assign beds, we hate how the children still never put their homework back into their inventory when they are done!"

If the majority of the fans love or loved it, keep it, EA! (It does look like they do try to fix/change the annoying things, but for some reason they throw away the good things, too.)

Looking at the game setting in Sims 4... I think they could have made great use of the on/off ability (like how they did for autonomy) in this regard. Give the option to turn certain things off. "I'm doing this, so I don't need story progression on, so I'll turn it off. I don't care about little things like what my Sim's favorite color is, so I'm turning that off. My sims are autonomously doing things I don't want them to do! I'm turning that off!" That and modes could be considered. High definition mode, if you want CASt and Open World, use this mode. If you don't have the specs for it, then it is your loss if your computer dies. Your computer can't handle that? Then use regular, where you have a still very flexible CAS and a loading screen. That is still too much on your computer? Here is a low definition mode with preset body types and no world map screen. Instead you'll get  pop-up with listings of places you can go. Select fro the menu and travel!

@PugLove888Yeah, don't mind me. My brain is really going through some problems lately and lots of real life stuff is just now blooming - family member I live with just had surgery today and is now home. Whoop!

Wow listening to this Sims 3 is better no Sims 4 is better nuh uh Sims 1 is better is a bit crazy.  To be honest, I never played Sims 2 and only barely played the original Sims.  However, I fell in love with Sims 3 so that was my gold standard for the franchise.  I play on console so never had the lagging issues with either though from time to time the game would crash but I think that was more because my system was getting old.  Sims 3 had some great features that I do miss in Sims 4 but all in all, I find I'm loving Sims 4 more every time I play it.

When I first downloaded it, I played it for like 15 minutes and hated it.  It sat on my console for at least a month before I gave it another go and I stuck with it.  Now, it's the only game I play.  I have others that I keep threatening to go play but it always turns out to be Sims 4.  The biggest thing I've learned from reading this back and forth is that y'all just can't seem to adjust to things that are new and different.  Yeah, sure there are things about Sims 3 that I'd love to see added to Sims 4.  The material creation, the color wheel, the cars, the thieves and cops.  That sort of thing but they're not here.  Move on, my peeps.  Maybe they'll return, maybe they won't.  I hope they do but will live if they don't.

Just sharing my opinion with love.  <3

I don't really have a favorite between Sims 3 and Sims 4. To me they are completely different games and I very much enjoy playing them both. The parts I like best about Sims 3 do not make Sims 4 a failure in my mind, just as the things I love about Sims 4 do not detract from how much I still love Sims 3.

Btw- @PenguinFoop If I am reading your post correctly & you had the console version of Sims 3 then you would not have seen the same lagging issues that many players had with the PC version. The Sims 3 on XBox and Playstation were completely different games than the PC version. Sorry if I misread your post on this part. I had both Sims 3 and Sims 3 Pets for XBox 360 and I loved them both. I also have the PC version of Sims 3 and it is still one of my favorite games ever. I'm the same as you, it took me a little while to warm up to Sims 4 but now I am totally addicted xD

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@RandomBuzziness wrote:

I don't really have a favorite between Sims 3 and Sims 4. To me they are completely different games and I very much enjoy playing them both. The parts I like best about Sims 3 do not make Sims 4 a failure in my mind, just as the things I love about Sims 4 do not detract from how much I still love Sims 3.

Btw- @PenguinFoop If I am reading your post correctly & you had the console version of Sims 3 then you would not have seen the same lagging issues that many players had with the PC version. The Sims 3 on XBox and Playstation were completely different games than the PC version. Sorry if I misread your post on this part. I had both Sims 3 and Sims 3 Pets for XBox 360 and I loved them both. I also have the PC version of Sims 3 and it is still one of my favorite games ever. I'm the same as you, it took me a little while to warm up to Sims 4 but now I am totally addicted xD

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Yes, I only play on console and it was the 360.  Loved it.  I know it's different than the pc version but still awesome!  I realize I wouldn't have the lagging but Xbox had its own problems, such as limited storage (presumably to prevent lagging and save disk space).

But one thing I was very disappointed in TS4 about (and still am) is the inability to create and stock ponds.  That was probably one of my favorite features.  

@RandomBuzziness, you probably remember the gothic mansion lot.  I demolished it and built a huge lake on it.  On stilts extended over the lake, I had two sleeping quarters both with a master bedroom, a second single bedroom and a glassed in lounging room.  So basically, you came home and went up a flight of stairs to get to the sleeping quarters.  If your sleeping quarters were farther from the stairs, you walked along an outside walkway around the first sleeping quarters and went to yours. 

Then, when you woke, you walked on around that walkway to the deck area where the juice bar and picnic tables were.  There were probably other things there too but I can't remember.  Anyway, so leading from the deck area were stairs that led down to the kitchen.  You'd make your meal then take it to the dining deck and call everyone to eat. 

Behind the kitchen was the bath house with like 6 bathroom stalls (we partied a lot) and 4 showers.  Behind the bath house was the parking area and beside that was the garden.  The garden had every plant you could get and the lake was stocked with every kind of fish and had a second walkway that spanned the width of the lake so you could stand on it and fish in the middle.  It took generations to get all of the fish, plants and money to do it all.  But the lot was amazing with tons of plant life and scenery overlooking the ocean from atop a lake on a cliff.  It reminded me of a tropical retreat.  You could even fish under the sleeping quarters and the dining deck.  

And for the kiddies, there was a beach area with all of the toys and activities that toddlers, children and teens could want all fenced in so the toddlers couldn't wander too close to the edge of the lake and fall in.

Unfortunately, Sims 4 seems to lack that kind of creative building so I am bummed about that for sure.

@PenguinFoop  you have stated, 
              "The biggest thing I've learned from reading this back and forth is that y'all just can't seem to adjust to things that are new and different.  Yeah, sure there are things about Sims 3 that I'd love to see added to Sims 4.  The material creation, the color wheel, the cars, the thieves and cops.  That sort of thing but they're not here.  Move on, my peeps.  Maybe they'll return, maybe they won't.  I hope they do but will live if they don't."

Well, that isn't my case at all!  I adjusted just fine to TS4!  It is my second favorite version of the Sims!  Just because my favorite version of the Sims is TS2 doesn't mean I can't adjust to change!  I don't want an open world that is empty (like TS3) and causes my game to become unplayable.  I don't care personally that we don't have cops and burglars in TS4 (fine if we do, but also fine if we don't!) The CASt color and pattern wheel I did love dearly, but also saw that it created a ton of problems for the game if you actually used it (in other words, I am thankful that Build/Buy Mode and CAS don't take 30 min to load due to all my saved  pattern swatches! )  So I have moved on just fine.  That doesn't mean I can't prefer TS2!   

It seems that if I praise TS4, people think I"m just an empty headed "fan girl" and don't know what I"m talking about.😮They assume TS4 is my favorite version, so I explain how my favorite version is TS2 and then I'm accused of not being able to accept changes in the game! 😞  The reality is that I've played all 4 versions (and Sims Medieval, which I won't compare here, since it is quite different), and my least favorite version of the Sims is TS3 (mostly due to the empty world and how horribly it ran, which made it almost unplayable, which made me angry all the time).  I would have liked it a lot better if it worked , but its inability to work on most systems at the time is why it is my least favorite. But it did have some great features, and recognizing that doesn't mean that I still don't love TS4, because I do love TS4!.  I just prefer TS2.🥳  But if I was only clinging to the past due to my inability to adjust to changes, my favorite version would have been the Original The Sims, and my least favorite would be the current version! ! 😃  But this is not the case!   My favorites are the TS2, then TS4, then TS1, then TS3, which shows I have very specific reasons why my favorites are what they are, and that they are not my favorites simply due to an inability to accept change! 😇 

That said, yes, the console version of TS3 was not the TS3 we are talking about! 😇  I had that version as well, and had no performance problems with it! 🙂 TS4 is different in that the console version of it is the same exact version, but the updates are about a month behind the PC version (and Sony and Microsoft have not allowed CC/Mods on the game yet). But other than that it is the same game.  


@Player_jp5s5eavhigh definition for an open world would make it run slower if anything.  But high definition refers to graphics, which wasn't TS3's only problem in making the game lag, stop, or crash.  So I don't think that would do much, but I could be wrong.
I love the concept of toggling certain aspects of the game (like you mentioned)! ❤️ I think a lot of players love this concept.  The only problem is that according to more tech savvy players, the "simple" toggle is anything but simple! 😮 They have brought to my attention that it is really complicated in creating toggling features in games! 😞 That is probably why there aren't more of them in the game. ☹️

And I agree with you on how bad it was with the baby bottle in TS2!  One of my favorite things about TS4 is the ability of being able to live-drag certain objects, especially trash!!! 🙌  The baby bottles is one of my least favorite things about TS2.  And I agree with you about not liking to have a certain number of friends for a promotion!  That should only be a requirement for certain jobs where it makes sense to need a lot of friends, like politics.  Most other jobs do need social skills in real life, but usually those social skills are just needed in the workplace, so the only friends you would have to make are ones at work, and it wouldn't matter if you had any friends at all outside of work! 

@RandomBuzziness, you are a rare person that loves TS3 and TS4 equally! 😎❤️ That is almost how I feel about TS1 and TS4, but TS4 wins by not being a static game (and my that I mean that Sims can age in TS4). But I think that is great that you love both TS4 and TS3 equally.  😇

@PugLove888 Ah, when I wrote down the concept of "modes", I was basing them on a computer's power and capacity, not so much graphics. Basically think of it as like how we have emulators and Origin's recent release of the Legacy version. By HD, I was indicating you have a computer that has above the minimum requirements needed to run the Sims # where an open world and CASt causes no problems - basically someone with an excellent gaming computer. Those with computers that fall in the standard range and pretty much fall right on the line of the minimum requirements would use Medium and have the less customizable, yet still very versatile CAS we have now. Then those with older computers would run the Low mode which would sort of be like Legacy, but instead of not being able to play anymore released packs, certain things would be shut off. Maybe autonomy, maybe how many townies spawn, maybe some of the graphics will need to be on the lowest quality setting. The CAS meanwhile would be more limited, using presets you can choose from for body types and the slider ability likely being as limited as Sims 2.

In note of @PenguinFoop's comment... as I said, The Sims (2000) to Sims 4... it is all the Sims no matter what. Nevertheless, when it comes to Sims 4 I don't think anyone is complaining about the new added to it or the differences so much. They are complaining about the elements that are no longer there. Physically Sims are more customizable than ever minus the color wheel so many G3 rave about. When creating their personalities and playing them, however... things were taken away that truly made the characters people created feel unique and lifelike.

@PugLove888  I wasn't referring to anyone individually.  I was merely stating that here as well as on other threads some people seem to be of the opinion that if it isn't like their favorite version then it's trash.  That's not the case with everyone who has legitimate reasons for disliking the game but this is not TS3 or any earlier version.  It's TS4 so move on!

As for you personally, I read what you posted and I see where your issues can make TS3 your least favorite and I respect that you have a favorite version.  Everyone does and that's a good thing.  As far as I remember though, you were not trashing TS4 because it was so different from your favorite.  You made good points and I understand.  But when people say "they took this out or made this that or whatever and so that automatically makes the current version "a fail," I don't get that.  

When the same two parents have different kids, you don't look at the younger and say "you don't do this like your brother" or "your sister has a better nose."  You simply accept that they're different children and learn to love those differences.  

This is gonna come across as offensive I'm sure but, you need to not take every post as a personal attack on you.  This is a common thing that I personally am just trying to overcome myself but I recognize the signs.  

Take care and I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

Have a great day and a blessed life.  :D